163 réponses à ce sujet

[AnubisXy1]

There's a lot of ships in the Migrant Fleet. If the Quarians and the Migrant Fleet went all out, they might be able to destroy a Reaper. If they got supremely lucky, maybe even two before they were obliterated.



But there's also a hell of a lot of Reapers. What's two of them in the big scheme of things?

[Lebrine]

just to add to the discussions going on.



It's my understanding that the Quarians pulled the trigger first and that the Geth defended themselves, the Geth still kinda worship the Quarians as their creators and if the Tali/Legion loyalty is anything to go by it looks like the Quarians are usually always the first to pull the trigger.



If I remember right Legion also tells us that the Geths goal is ultimately build a Dyson Sphere that would house all the Geth, which leads me to believe even further that Geth and Quarians could easily make peace. Perhaps the Geth would also give the Quarians back the homeworld, if only the Quarians stopped being so blind with hatred....

With all that in mind I cannot see why Shepard could not unite them, and have the resultant fleet come down heavily on the reapers. It would certainly do some heavy damage to atleast a dozen reapers, Leaving another 470ish reapers for Shepard to toy with.

[Praetor Knight]

Lebrine wrote...

If I remember right Legion also tells us that the Geths goal is ultimately build a Dyson Sphere that would house all the Geth

Cool, was that in a conversation? I don't remember that.

So could that be connected to what's happening to Haelstrom?

[Vaenier]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Lebrine wrote...

If I remember right Legion also tells us that the Geths goal is ultimately build a Dyson Sphere that would house all the Geth

Cool, was that in a conversation? I don't remember that.

So could that be connected to what's happening to Haelstrom?

No. Halestrom is Heretic Geth controlled, and thus is more likely to do with the Reapers.

[Lebrine]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Lebrine wrote...

If I remember right Legion also tells us that the Geths goal is ultimately build a Dyson Sphere that would house all the Geth

Cool, was that in a conversation? I don't remember that.

So could that be connected to what's happening to Haelstrom?

For your viewing pleasure (spoiler warning for those who dont want to see the conversation)
Dyson Sphere Convo

Thanks to the guy who posted this convo on youtube, whoever he is

Modifié par Lebrine, 14 janvier 2011 - 06:40 .

[Praetor Knight]

Vaenier wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Cool, was that in a conversation? I don't remember that.

So could that be connected to what's happening to Haelstrom?

No. Halestrom is Heretic Geth controlled, and thus is more likely to do with the Reapers.

 I tried to google where that is referenced it seems connected to the megastructure Legion said the Geth are building. So it is not necessarily a Dyson Sphere, just that a Dyson Sphere is the most likely structure they are building.

*************************************************
Also, where could I find that it was the Heretics and not Geth generally?

Is that known if Legion is brought along on Tali's LM? I haven't done that mission with Legion yet.



Edit: @ Lebrine, thanks for the link.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 14 janvier 2011 - 06:42 .

[Lebrine]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Cool, was that in a conversation? I don't remember that.

So could that be connected to what's happening to Haelstrom?

No. Halestrom is Heretic Geth controlled, and thus is more likely to do with the Reapers.

 I tried to google where that is referenced it seems connected to the megastructure Legion said the Geth are building. So it is not necessarily a Dyson Sphere, just that a Dyson Sphere is the most likely structure they are building.

*************************************************
Also, where could I find that it was the Heretics and not Geth generally?

Is that known if Legion is brought along on Tali's LM? I haven't done that mission with Legion yet.

Yeh, it is. But its an important conversation that highlights the fact that the Quarians are the big problem when it comes to their "war"

[Vaenier]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Also, where could I find that it was the Heretics and not Geth generally?

Is that known if Legion is brought along on Tali's LM? I haven't done that mission with Legion yet.

Legion will come with you and help kill the Heretics. The heretics will try to kill Legion. They are not of the same faction.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

If Halestrom's sun does have something to do with the Reapers than reprograming the Heritics would give us an advantage in knowing what that plan was. If it was going to be some kind of short cut into the galaxy than we can properly defend that location with a bunch of guns pointing at it.



However it seems that the conversation seems to be moving toward the Quarians themselves being usefull but the Migrant Fleet being either fodder or perhaps as a large transportation source when the fight comes which I think is as far as it should be. If there's a situation where its actually fighting anywhere near the front line than that would be rediculous.

[Spartas Husky]

Vaenier wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Also, where could I find that it was the Heretics and not Geth generally?

Is that known if Legion is brought along on Tali's LM? I haven't done that mission with Legion yet.

Legion will come with you and help kill the Heretics. The heretics will try to kill Legion. They are not of the same faction.

until now we have never met a geth from the Original geth faction aside from legion. Every ship and geth we have seen are from the Splinter Faction aiding the reapers. ALthough their land troops most likely are identeical or at least very similar. ON the other hand their spaceships are probably VASTLY different in shape. Since the heretic geth use ships that look like insect bodies with no wings and those same shapes are found on reaper tech on dig sites and the like. Hell geth cruisers and drop ships are the exact same shape.... weird but

[Praetor Knight]

Vaenier wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Also, where could I find that it was the Heretics and not Geth generally?

Is that known if Legion is brought along on Tali's LM? I haven't done that mission with Legion yet.

Legion will come with you and help kill the Heretics. The heretics will try to kill Legion. They are not of the same faction.

And Samara stays beside renegade Sheps.

They're likely heretic though.

[Dean_the_Young]

Vaenier wrote...


You missed the point about isolation. That example you showed was still a network, it was just a closed netowrk. It was beaten by a single floppy or something with the virus on it. Complete isolation for the Geth would mean no netowrk. no single floppy screwing an entire race. they do not require constant active network access to function. their military ship platforms are fully capable of existing as stand alone isolated beings, capable of shooting and killing Quarians without the netowrk and immune to the virus. They are in a state of war. They know the galaxy hates them, their ex friends just made everyone hate them more, the quarians still seek to try and defeat them with a virus after 300 years, and the humans even jumped on the boat with an orgaic ai thing. Stupid would not be enough to describe the lack of isolation protcol to beat a viral attack.

Not only do they require communication to be effective in a military setting for the same reasons everyone does, and they want to have connection with eachother. Geth are, in their own way, social beings: the entire end-game of geth evolution is to form a super-mind in which they can all be connected. The geth aren't going to break apart their society, their intergalacic holdings, their very mind, and cease all non-direct communication means at all times for the same reasons why the galaxy isn't going to give up using mass effect technology: it's too much a part of them, and they'd lose too much of themselves without it. Robots can't wage war without distance communication anymore than the rest of us, and they lose one their primary advantages if they try.

Not, mind you, that they'd be immune even if they did rely solely on direct communication. All it would take, after all, is to isolate a geth and brute-force hack him with that single floppy. Devise the program, let him return with a good enough cover. He direct interfaces, spreads the virus, and no one knows. Umpteen direct-interfaces later, the viruses can be triggered and the entire area goes down. Rinse and repeat.

If we were in a state of war and there have been several biological attacks on us, we would always have our gas masks with us, we wouldnt just ignore it.

Indeed, but the scary thing about NBC is that gas masks alone don't stop the adverse external effects, since even skin contact can be lethal. And while you can put everyone into NBC suits, I'll testify myself that you can't do as good, as well, as easily, and that it comes with it's own host of problems, and that those can be exploited as well.

well, when an idiot such as myself can come up with a basic idea to beat it, it kinda says something about how good the original idea was. Maybe you could make magical nano bot bullets that you could shoot them with and hack them... ya, lets just pull more dues ex machina out of our asses, great way to save this joke...

Except we don't know if your idea can beat it, because we don't know how it will be applied. Your basic idea could have been dealt with ages ago, at which point you'd just be an idiot.

You are not really fun to argue with here. You just want war and death and genocide, you actively seek it out. All you argue is to keep the plot a series of stupid actions.

Any series which includes bipedal robotic war machines is already about death and war and genocide, and pretending sensibility as opposed to versimilitude afterwards is silly.

[Dean_the_Young]

Vaenier wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Also, where could I find that it was the Heretics and not Geth generally?

Is that known if Legion is brought along on Tali's LM? I haven't done that mission with Legion yet.

Legion will come with you and help kill the Heretics. The heretics will try to kill Legion. They are not of the same faction.

And why wouldn't he kill True Geth if priorities clashed? Legion's is sent out and given one directive to support Shepard. The True Geth have another priority to keep Quarians away from their territory. Consensus to stop the fighting can't be reached, nor is Legion's consensus/directive overruled. A logical contradiction of a divided mind is allowed by both directives being sustained simaltaneously: Geth defend their territory without breaking ties with Shepard-Commander.


It wouldn't be the first place in which, for the greater good of a faction, inter-faction fighting occured. The US government ran Red Cell, which kidnapped generals and admirals and 'mildly tortured' nuclear codes out of them in order to test US security, while police have run under-cover operations in which secret agents have had to take outright action against their fellow officers of the law in order to accomplish a goal.

[Vaenier]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Also, where could I find that it was the Heretics and not Geth generally?

Is that known if Legion is brought along on Tali's LM? I haven't done that mission with Legion yet.

Legion will come with you and help kill the Heretics. The heretics will try to kill Legion. They are not of the same faction.

And why wouldn't he kill True Geth if priorities clashed? Legion's is sent out and given one directive to support Shepard. The True Geth have another priority to keep Quarians away from their territory. Consensus to stop the fighting can't be reached, nor is Legion's consensus/directive overruled. A logical contradiction of a divided mind is allowed by both directives being sustained simaltaneously: Geth defend their territory without breaking ties with Shepard-Commander.

It wouldn't be the first place in which, for the greater good of a faction, inter-faction fighting occured. The US government ran Red Cell, which kidnapped generals and admirals and 'mildly tortured' nuclear codes out of them in order to test US security, while police have run under-cover operations in which secret agents have had to take outright action against their fellow officers of the law in order to accomplish a goal.

Legion is there to establish diplomacy. If they were good Geth, you would get a magical blue/red speach check to stop the fighting and just have the Quarians leave immediately and never return.

I hope you are not one of those people who believe the heretic station was just a huge ploy to trick you and gain your trust...

Modifié par Vaenier, 14 janvier 2011 - 07:05 .

[Dean_the_Young]

No True Scotsman falacy, Vaenier? You're better than that.





(Vaenier, I invented that theory.)

[Vaenier]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

No True Scotsman falacy, Vaenier? You're better than that.


(Vaenier, I invented that theory.)

Never mind. I pretty much lost respect for you. Bye.

Modifié par Vaenier, 14 janvier 2011 - 07:17 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Vaenier wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

No True Scotsman falacy, Vaenier? You're better than that.


(Vaenier, I invented that theory.)

Damnit, what is that?

An argument that relies on 'To be A, you must also be B,' even though B is not actually necessary to be A.

[Dean_the_Young]

Vaenier wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

No True Scotsman falacy, Vaenier? You're better than that.


(Vaenier, I invented that theory.)

Never mind. I pretty much lost respect for you. Bye.

You say the cruelest things, sweetie.

[Nashiktal]

Vaenier wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Vaenier wrote...
You are welcome.

You should not set your standards in writing so low. Do you also like the idea of putting C4 inside the ships control consoles so they can explode and kill people when the shields get shot?

I'm not for it but it does seem to happen now doesnt it? My standards have nothing to do with this. It is simple cause and effect.

Saren gets "Direct controlled" glows and sparks with that fancy red graphics. Kill saren, somehow stunning or whatever it does to him, suddenly sovvy glows with the same fancy red sparks and he is somehow killed by a frigate and two fighter while a whole FLEET of CRUISERS pounded at it for no effect the entire battle.

Those cruisers certainly didnt get any better at killing it. The only other factor in the battle was Sovvy controlling Saren.

Ships in Mass Effect have these cool things called shields. As they absorb damage, they use up energy, but prevent damage to the ship itself. Really strong shields require a lot of fire power to take down, either in a bunch of little shots, or one huge shot. A ship would be completely protected till its shields go fully down and then they would be extremely vulnerable to death. Have a nice day.

So if something were to disrupt those shields the reapers would die? Oh I wonder what did that? "Eyeroll*

The shields didnt go down until sovvy/saren was defeated. The same energy effects for when sovvy and saren were controlled played on both sovvy and saren. 

As I keep pointing out too you the alliance had no effect against him until saren was defeated. NONE. With what we have seen with ships, there is no "energy" animation when the barriers fall. Turian ship just blow up when destroyed. The Ascension does the same thing, and they specifically mention how the barriers go down.

With sovvy? A strange energy animation that just happens to be the same effects on the remote control saren? I guess its just one big coincidence huh?

[CroGamer002]

50 000 ships with guns.

Old or not, they are useful. A lot!

[Nashiktal]

50000 ships barely holding together. A whole alliance fleet had trouble taking on one reaper. The quarians would be slaughtered.

[Spartas Husky]

Nashiktal wrote...

50000 ships barely holding together. A whole alliance fleet had trouble taking on one reaper. The quarians would be slaughtered.

Theya re not barely holding together. from what it has been said they will have a lifespan of still another century or less. So is not like theya re crumbling on the scen otherwise nobody would regard the quarians as the holders of the biggest fleet on the galaxy.

if they had just a chinese policy of big numbers and low tech dont think most would be concerned by their fleets.

Still from any moving army a large percent of those aren't ment for combat. From any baggage train or moving cargo for troops, probably 20-40% are not made for combat, and even if pushed to it would not last very long.

[Dean_the_Young]

Nashiktal wrote...

So if something were to disrupt those shields the reapers would die? Oh I wonder what did that? "Eyeroll*

The shields didnt go down until sovvy/saren was defeated. The same energy effects for when sovvy and saren were controlled played on both sovvy and saren. 

As I keep pointing out too you the alliance had no effect against him until saren was defeated. NONE. With what we have seen with ships, there is no "energy" animation when the barriers fall. Turian ship just blow up when destroyed. The Ascension does the same thing, and they specifically mention how the barriers go down.

With sovvy? A strange energy animation that just happens to be the same effects on the remote control saren? I guess its just one big coincidence huh?

And as long as the shields remained up, no gun would have an affect on Sovereign. But that doesn't mean that the shields weren't taking a beating and on their way to dying. It's the same as in every other case, gameplay and otherwise: there is no visible difference between shields at 40% compared to those at 100%.

Vigil's data file was always, by Vigil's own word, temporary in duration. Given enough time, Sovereign would have retaken control. Yet, despite this, he chose to try with Saren as a Reaper avatar, which could fail and render him completely defenseless.

Why? If his shields were completely impervious to fire forever, there would be no reason to think so. In fact, there would have been no reason for this entire gambit of the conduit and what not in the first place: Sovereign could have taken everyone single-handidly.

Except, of course, that Sovereign never could do that, and that's why Sovereign had to resort to alliances. Because Sovereign could be overwhelmed by masses of weaker ships. Something we knew even before we knew about Saren the Reaper Avatar.

So, again, why risk instant power-loss from losing an Avatar? The obvious logical conclusion is because Sovereign was losing against the Alliance fleet. Yes, they hadn't done damage to him yet: that's the point of kinetic barriers. But that doesn't mean they weren't approaching to the point where they would overwhelm his barriers, as they likely were.

Sovereign didn't likely take the Saren Avatar option because he was lazy, or impatient, or even arrogant. All of these are impositions of our biases towards assigning flaws upon the Reapers. Rather, the logical reasoning to take the Saren Avatar is that the Saren Avatar is, for whatever reason, more likely to succede in opening the Citadel Relay than waiting out Vigil's temporary limit.

And the only reason Sovereign wouldn't be able to wait and break through Vigil's barrier on his own, of course, is the Alliance fire his shields have to soak up.

[Jzadek72]

Vaenier wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

No True Scotsman falacy, Vaenier? You're better than that.


(Vaenier, I invented that theory.)

Never mind. I pretty much lost respect for you. Bye.

Which can be translated as "I don't have an answer to that, so I'm going to hide behind a wall of insults."

[Jzadek72]

Nashiktal wrote...

50000 ships barely holding together. A whole alliance fleet had trouble taking on one reaper. The quarians would be slaughtered.

That's a hell of a lot more than the Alliance fleet, I think.