163 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

Nashiktal wrote...

50000 ships barely holding together. A whole alliance fleet had trouble taking on one reaper. The quarians would be slaughtered.

A fleet of a few dozen vesels of size.

[InvaderErl]

Nashiktal wrote...

50000 ships barely holding together. A whole alliance fleet had trouble taking on one reaper. The quarians would be slaughtered.

Shepard indicates the Quarian fleet is formidable. Regardless armor won't matter in this fight as the Reapers have a one-hit kill weapon that'll tear Alliance and Quarian ships apart indiscriminately so the condition of the ships is not overly important. Their weapons we can assume however have to at least be decent to ward off pirates/raiders/slavers etc that would otherwise prey on them.

Now the fight against the Reapers will likely not be a long and protracted one. It'll be a series of a few short brutal battles or one climactic battle, in either case Quarian assistance should be welcomed since you now have thousands of friendly ships firing on the enemy that you otherwise would not have.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 14 janvier 2011 - 08:20 .

[Thompson family]

Just an observation — I'm continually surprised by the number of people who don't go all the way down the dialogue path with Legion to find out about the "Dyson Sphere," etc. Legion's by far the most important crew member Shepard recruits and, to me at least, the most interesting.

Not to sound callous or anything, but I really don't care as much about Miranda's Daddy issues, Jack's hang-ups and so forth as the possibility of not only peace but even alliance (even a temporary one) with the Geth. This is especially true when I find that the Heretics, who were strong enough (with Soverign's help) to launch a war were just a small fraction of the Geth.

Yet every time a thread relating to this topic pops up, we get multiple replies in the "Wow! I didn't know that" vein.

I blame it on the fact you can't recruit Legion until just before the suicide mission. Clearly, people either don't continue and play many side missions after the main mission ends, or they play the side missions first and don't leave enough side missions to unlock enough experience points to keep going down Legion's dialogue path after the main mission's over.

Or they just don't like passive listening to dialogue. That's always a possibiliity.

Legion and the Geth, and the ramifications for the Quarians Legion brings with him, are hugely important. In fact, if I were "my" Shepard, the first thing I'd do after talking to Legion is head for the Perseus Veil make contact.

Modifié par Thompson family, 14 janvier 2011 - 08:17 .

[khevan]

50,000 ships, even if combat ineffective, could be hugely useful in so many other capacities.

It's been said before that even a tramp freighter can be retrofitted with at least a one shot cannon, and since Alliance cruisers couldn't stand up to even one Sovereign lazor blast, why build cruiser level armor to attack them? You basically need the biggest, baddest, most kick-ass glass cannons you can get ahold of, in the hopes that the heavier weapons may penetrate Reaper barrier technology. Put heavier versions of the Thanix cannon on as many ships as possible, and hope they can take a shot before they get smeared. In this respect, 50,000 ships is a helluva lot of Thanix cannons.

And even if they're so outdated that they aren't deemed viable enough to mount cannons on, they can be used for troop transport, logistics and supply management, hell, even mobile command ships for theater commanders who need to be outside of any immediate battles to see what's going on. They can free up more modern freighters and civilian ships who could put Thanix cannons on and go a-hunting Reapers.

Yeah, I don't think there's really any way for the Migrant Fleet to not be useful.

Edit:  grammar and formatting...

Modifié par khevan, 14 janvier 2011 - 08:31 .

[Dionkey]

Transport ships and they can be refitted when the time comes.

[Strugz]

atheelogos wrote...

My name is Legion wrote...

Maybe strap nukes to them and send them on suicide rams....

Or not.

nukes can't penetrate a Reapers shields

FAIL. Kinetic barriers don't block nukes , only mass accelerator rounds.

[PnXMarcin1PL]

Every possible battle & transport ship will be needed against reapers. No matter if it's barely holding itself. We all have to expect that the final battle will be total meat grinder for all united species.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Again people are assuming that there's going to be a surplus of Thaix Cannons just laying around waiting to be placed on 50,000 old ships. It is very very likely that Taix Cannons will be a limit recource like everything else will be when the war stars and we probably won't have enought to just give away to the Migrant Fleet. Now if we give the blueprints to the Geth and they can mass produce them in huge numbers than sure the more ships that have the cannons the better.

[Jzadek72]

Strugz wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

My name is Legion wrote...

Maybe strap nukes to them and send them on suicide rams....

Or not.

nukes can't penetrate a Reapers shields

FAIL. Kinetic barriers don't block nukes , only mass accelerator rounds.

And a suicide ram would involve kinetic energy penetrating shields. Plus, in space, nukes are surprisingly innefficient, as there's no shockwave. Think before you needlessly insult someone.

[Nashiktal]

Jzadek72 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

50000 ships barely holding together. A whole alliance fleet had trouble taking on one reaper. The quarians would be slaughtered.

That's a hell of a lot more than the Alliance fleet, I think.

Theres also a hell of a lot more reapers.

[Nashiktal]

Kinetic barriers block any fast moving object. Whether you launch a nuke, a mass rounds, or a bunny, it will be blocked if it is moving a certain speed.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Actually we don't know how many Reapers there actually are. I heard that when the Reapers appear at the end of ME2 the count total is around 300.



I think we're going to have a Reaper fleet of around 500 - 1000. Anything larger and defeating them would make Shepard more than Space Jesus it would make him Space God. Which is to much to be believable.

[CroGamer002]

Nashiktal wrote...

Jzadek72 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

50000 ships barely holding together. A whole alliance fleet had trouble taking on one reaper. The quarians would be slaughtered.

That's a hell of a lot more than the Alliance fleet, I think.

Theres also a hell of a lot more reapers.

Sovereign said there's legion of them, so it's not a lot more then 1000 of them.

[Nashiktal]

That is more than enough reapers to wipe out a galaxy. You think in all the lifetimes the reapers have existed, in all the races they wiped out, they never had to face overwhelming numbers before?



I just dont see why people are underestimating the reapers. All tech is based on their tech, they have lived long enough to see practically every trick in the galaxy, just being around them is enough to become their thrall.

[Vaenier]

Nashiktal wrote...

Kinetic barriers block any fast moving object. Whether you launch a nuke, a mass rounds, or a bunny, it will be blocked if it is moving a certain speed.

Reaper barriers block all objects, no matter what speed. But they cant stop energy released from a nuke.

[Jzadek72]

Vaenier wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Kinetic barriers block any fast moving object. Whether you launch a nuke, a mass rounds, or a bunny, it will be blocked if it is moving a certain speed.

Reaper barriers block all objects, no matter what speed. But they cant stop energy released from a nuke.

Explain. Mass Drivers would do a lot more damage than a nuke, especially in space. No shockwave, so no kinetic energy. Plus, a mass driver would release more energy anyway. A freight train going 60mph in a collision releases similar amounts of energy as a small nuke, just more localised. Now picture something around that mass going at relativistic velocities.

[General User]

Nukes aren’t designed to come into physical contact with their targets. They explode prior to impact.
 
The idea is not to go for sheer quantity of energy, so much as to use a form of energy the Reapers have not yet demonstrated any defense against, ie heat.
 
Kinetic barriers are specifically mentioned as being useless against heat. So if a nuke, even in deep space, exploded less than 100 meters or so short of a Reaper's kinetic barrier…
 
Nukes also have the advantage of being mass producible, by the hundreds of thousands (if not millions) and deliverable by almost any means imaginable, from mass accelerators, to missiles, to fighter craft.

Modifié par General User, 14 janvier 2011 - 10:13 .

[Cheesy Blue]

The Quarians have the most expirenced and talented starship personal in the galaxy. They wouldn't be much in a fight if they used their old run down ships. However, if you switch out the crew of an Alliance cruiser with a Quarian crew they can use the ship much more effectivly than their human counterparts.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Nashiktal wrote...

That is more than enough reapers to wipe out a galaxy. You think in all the lifetimes the reapers have existed, in all the races they wiped out, they never had to face overwhelming numbers before?

I just dont see why people are underestimating the reapers. All tech is based on their tech, they have lived long enough to see practically every trick in the galaxy, just being around them is enough to become their thrall.

That's the thing, they haven't.

There is a huge difference between now and every other cycle that has ever happened. This time the Mass Relays are still on. Evey other cycle the Citadel was triggered and all the Relays shut off meaning that every system was cut off from the others, meaning that whatever force you had in one system was all that was ever going to be there to help it. Once all the relays were shut down the Reapers would swarm over one system will all their Fleet to destroy it. Then they'd go the the next bringing their full force and then the next and the next ect.

This time around the Relays are on meaning that the entire Galaxy is going to be unified which the Reapers have never had to face before. A single system has no chance against the entire Reaper fleet but a fully unified galaxy that can qucikly react and go to where ever the Reapers attack meaning they have a war on their hands instead of a slaughter.

[Jzadek72]

General User wrote...

Nukes aren’t designed to come into physical contact with their targets. They explode prior to impact.
 
The idea is not to go for sheer quantity of energy, so much as to use a form of energy the Reapers have not yet demonstrated any defense against, ie heat.
 
Kinetic barriers are specifically mentioned as being useless against heat. So if a nuke, even in deep space, exploded less than 100 meters or so short of a Reaper's kinetic barrier…
 
Nukes also have the advantage of being mass producible, by the hundreds of thousands (if not millions) and deliverable by almost any means imaginable, from mass accelerators, to missiles, to fighter craft.

A nuke is still inefficient, because, in space, the nuke needs to transfer heat in a way that isn't convection or conduction. Radiation is the only way, but it is painfully inefficient. The amount of energy the Reaper recieved would be much smaller than the nuke's payload. There would have to be simpler ways of applying it.

[Nashiktal]

You are right about the problems the reapers face. However you have to consider a few problems.



1. The galaxy is not only not united, but depending on what you did with the council are more fragmented than ever before. Paragons ensure that everyone is unified, but no one is preparing for war. Renegades break up the council causing everyone to split up, but the Turians prepare for war. (The asari stop building completely)



2. No is is preparing for war. How many ships do you think have the Thanix cannon? How many more ships are being built? The alliance is currently having trouble defending its colonies, and keeping control of the colonies. (Anti-alliance sentiments)



3. Reapers tech is still unfathomably powerful. A reaper ship is faster and more maneuverable than any ship that can bear any sort of significant firepower against it. Joker comment how one can pull a turn that would tear any ship in the alliance fleet in half. A single shot from a reaper can destroy a cruiser like it was paper. (Sovvy was also handicapped by being tied to the citadel. He couldnt move, only shoot those crowding around him.)



4. We are still largely unaware of what the reapers are capable of. Can a reaper still shut off the relays manually? Can a reaper use viruses? What can they do?

[Dean_the_Young]

Mesina2 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Jzadek72 wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

50000 ships barely holding together. A whole alliance fleet had trouble taking on one reaper. The quarians would be slaughtered.

That's a hell of a lot more than the Alliance fleet, I think.

Theres also a hell of a lot more reapers.

Sovereign said there's legion of them, so it's not a lot more then 1000 of them.

'Legion' is a metaphor in that context, not a size.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 14 janvier 2011 - 10:37 .

[Tasker]

My name is Legion wrote...

Maybe strap nukes to them and send them on suicide rams....

Or not.

If Shepard manages to broker a peace between the Quarians and the Geth which then results in them getting their planet back, then this isn't as far-fetched as it seems.

Remote controlling the flotilla to crash into the Reapers could be more devastating than shooting them.  They all have Mass Effect cores and I can image that those things exploding would cause a lot of damage.

Modifié par Orkboy, 14 janvier 2011 - 10:42 .

[General User]

Jzadek72 wrote...

General User wrote...

Nukes aren’t designed to come into physical contact with their targets. They explode prior to impact.
 
The idea is not to go for sheer quantity of energy, so much as to use a form of energy the Reapers have not yet demonstrated any defense against, ie heat.
 
Kinetic barriers are specifically mentioned as being useless against heat. So if a nuke, even in deep space, exploded less than 100 meters or so short of a Reaper's kinetic barrier…
 
Nukes also have the advantage of being mass producible, by the hundreds of thousands (if not millions) and deliverable by almost any means imaginable, from mass accelerators, to missiles, to fighter craft.

A nuke is still inefficient, because, in space, the nuke needs to transfer heat in a way that isn't convection or conduction. Radiation is the only way, but it is painfully inefficient. The amount of energy the Reaper recieved would be much smaller than the nuke's payload. There would have to be simpler ways of applying it.

Aye, conventional nukes in deep space are radically inefficient in terms of delivering destructive energy to a target. Since the energy of a nuclear explosion radiates in all directions,the most they can hope for is to create a (really rather small) “area of effect”, delivering damage to whatever portions of a Reaper might happen to be in that area.
 
Though even this need not necessarily be the case. Being far better informed on the matter than I, a fellow poster on these forums by the username ‘adam-grif’ has written many excellent posts on the subject of how the destructive energy of a nuclear blast could be channeled or focused.
 
adam_grif’s posts are very well written and well worth the read. In a nutshell the idea is broadly similar to that of a shaped charge, or an EFP, only with an eye towards channeling different forms of energy such as X-rays.
 
The name escapes me, but someone once said “quantity has a quality all its own.” Inefficient though they may be, nukes can penetrate Reaper barriers and can be built and deployed in massive numbers.

Modifié par General User, 14 janvier 2011 - 10:44 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Stalin is usually attributed with 'quantity has a quality all of its own,' though it's likely as old as tech-differences have been known.



Napoleon had the saying 'God favors the bigger battalion', or some such.