292 réponses à ce sujet

[Fiery Phoenix]

Exactly what Gibb said.

Modifié par Fiery Phoenix, 14 janvier 2011 - 02:37 .

[samurai crusade]

In ME1 we see Sovereign on Eden Prime... spend the rest of the game figuring out what a reaper is... by understanding the conduit, the beacon, indoctrination, dragons teeth, husks, and rachni.

In ME2 we learn about the Collectors, their being more efficient ground pounders to do their hands-on work, enhanced husks, praetors, scions, Reapers using organics for sinister purposes and most importantly, there are thousands of them.

To say that ME2 or ME1 are irrelivant is being ignorant to what is presented. Bioware's writers have done a great job presenting a formidable force and keeping us in the dark about a lot of their intentions and powers.

The shadow broker will be essential in unlocking more secrets about the reapers,

Side mission wise. Their all to give life to the universe. Some help tell more about the reapers, others about the universe. Deal with it.

[Phaedon]

morrie23 wrote...
ME1 also has Vigil, and the revelations from that conversation eclipse anything from ME2 (IMHO).

You make a good point. I am replaying ME1 right now, so I might reconsider my opinion about their presentation once I am done. So far, not terribly excited though.

Gibb_Shepard wrote...
I'm personally fine with where ME2 left us. I've accepted that ME1 was heavy on discovering the threat and pushing forward to stop that threat, while ME2 was heavy on advancing the other things in the universe (Such as the geth, characters, dark energy etc.) while letting the main plot take a back seat and basically leave it where it is.

Agreed.

I only give replies like that when people say that ME2's main plot did advance the overall reaper story-arch significantly, or that is as in-depth as ME1's, because that is simply not true.

Agreed.

As long as ME3 doesn't suddenly disregard all the things ME2 focused on (Characters, conflicts, alliances etc.), then ME2 will be a successful bridge IMO.

...Agreed. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/happy.png[/smilie]

[slimgrin]

I can't watch the whole thing, too long. He does a fair bit of nitpicking which is easy to do. A couple of points are indeed valid:

1- Shepard never gets to challenge Cerberus. So much for choice and consequence, or reactivity.

2 - Bioware sacrificed plot for character development....in a video game. In a book? Sure that can work. Not sure about a role playing game which is supposed to follow some sort of arc about your character.

In the end, it could very well be that the stories for both games are overrated.

Modifié par slimgrin, 14 janvier 2011 - 02:51 .

[Dean_the_Young]

I'll just plug in that we didn't really learn that much of anything about the Reapers in ME1. The biggest revelation we had was that they existed... and that they were dangerous. We learned that the Reapers existed, how they intended to use the Citadel trap, and a few of their capabilities (indoctrination, Dragon's Teeth, super-tech advantage), but the what/why was effectively nothing.



Calling them 'advanced synthetic race' is about as descriptive to the who they are, what exactly they are, or any sense of why, as calling humans organics and leaving it at that. Especially when we learn in ME2 that they aren't a single race, and they aren't even strictly synthetic. Nor were there any based inferences available in ME1 about their motivations: the Human Reaper, and the introduction of the prevalent theme of dark energy and star decay, both give infinitely more insight into the Reapers themselves than anything inME1.

[Phaedon]

slimgrin wrote...

I can't watch the whole thing, too long. He does a fair bit of nitpicking which is easy to do. A couple of points are indeed valid:

1- Shepard never gets to challenge Cerberus. So much for choice and consequence, or reactivity.

2 - Bioware sacrificed plot for character development....in a video game. In a book? Sure that can work. Not sure about a role playing game which is supposed to follow some sort of arc about your character.

I don't know if you took these from the videos, since I haven't watched them for ages, but both of the conclusions are extreme. While Shepard didn't challenge Cerberus, that doesn't suddenly ruin the whole choice system. And while the Reaper plot didn't steal the spotlight, or should I say plotlight, it doesn't make it bad.

[Il Divo]

Edit: Nevermind.

Modifié par Il Divo, 14 janvier 2011 - 02:55 .

[88mphSlayer]

basically, the entire plot of ME2 was just to retcon the Mass Effect universe and blow stuff up (that doesn't really matter in the end)



it's a very enjoyable game nonetheless, but i agree with him when he mentions the Shadow Broker DLC as being more important to the trilogy than Mass Effect 2

[EpicBoot2daFace]

nutshell43 wrote...

I don't expect Citizen Kane, Bioware needs mainstream appeal after all, but a bit more Dark Knight and less Transformers would have been nice.
Some handling of the psychological effects of Shepard's death, or why a sole survivor Shep would suddenly follow TIM. A bit of tying the different loyalty missions to each other and the main plot. And I don't give a **** about Wilson.

This.

[samurai crusade]

slimgrin wrote...

I can't watch the whole thing, too long. He does a fair bit of nitpicking which is easy to do. A couple of points are indeed valid:

1- Shepard never gets to challenge Cerberus. So much for choice and consequence, or reactivity.

2 - Bioware sacrificed plot for character development....in a video game. In a book? Sure that can work. Not sure about a role playing game which is supposed to follow some sort of arc about your character.

In the end, it could very well be that the stories for both games are overrated.

Sacrificed plot? Seriously?   The plot of the second game was to get a team together to travel into the Omega-4 relay and put a stop to the Collector threat.   The Collector threat being revealed as a Reaper threat.   We found out that not only can Reapers repurpose races ie. the Keepers and Collectors.  But somehow they create themselves out of select organics.             If you take two seconds away from the trigger button you would realize that there is a plot so interwoven into the two games that it's fascinating.  You just have to think about it.   Its a designed trillogy, designed to keep us in the dark till the end.          I think people forget that ME is a space-opera, a mystery.

[Nightwriter]

samurai crusade wrote...

The plot of the second game was to get a team together to travel into the Omega-4 relay and put a stop to the Collector threat.

Yes I didn't really like this.

Well I mean I would have. If I had been motivated to stop the threat.

And if we'd really come together as a team, you know, a rousing bonding story. Wow that would be cool.

[samurai crusade]

Nightwriter wrote...

samurai crusade wrote...

The plot of the second game was to get a team together to travel into the Omega-4 relay and put a stop to the Collector threat.

Yes I didn't really like this.

Well I mean I would have. If I had been motivated to stop the threat.

And if we'd really come together as a team, you know, a rousing bonding story. Wow that would be cool.

How were you not motivated?   Human colonies vanishing. Hundreds of thousands of people!   Your team became loyal to you... but nobody ever said they had to "come together".    Perhaps in ME3 they'll be like war-buddies because they survived the suicide mission together.         But everybody was on board for the mission only.    I just don't know what more you wanted? A montage leading up to an all-hands in Go Team!?

[lazuli]

I started to watch one of his videos. Then he said that Lift (ME1) and Pull (ME2) were identical, so I stopped.

[Nightwriter]

Right. Cool. Time to intellectually discuss what was wrong with ME2's story, then. Again.

Well first off, the whole driving force of the plot was these missing colonies, and I didn't care about them. We should probably talk about that first. That's not good.

[Dean_the_Young]

I submit to the court of public opinion that Nightwriter might well be a misanthrope.

[Praetor Knight]

He was condescending in his tone. I don't need snarky, and I could not watch past the first few moments because of that.

[Nightwriter]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

I submit to the court of public opinion that Nightwriter might well be a misanthrope.

I beg your pardon, I'll have you know 'twas humanity which created french fries, and I am, therefore, its undying fan.

However, in ME1 you had to SAVE THE WHOLE GALAXY KA-POW! and there was AN ATTACK ON THE CITADEL EPIC! It was all so important and exciting.

And then ME2, TIM's like, "Oh yeah, there are these colonies that no one really cares about and they're like, disappearing, people think it's weird."

And my Shepard said, "THIS IS SO IMPORTANT I MUST JOIN A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION BEFORE EVEN TALKING TO THE COUNCIL OR ANYTHING OMG!" I was just like whatever.

[Praetor Knight]

Nightwriter wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

I submit to the court of public opinion that Nightwriter might well be a misanthrope.

I beg your pardon, I'll have you know 'twas humanity which created french fries, and I am, therefore, its undying fan.

However, in ME1 you had to SAVE THE WHOLE GALAXY KA-POW! and there was AN ATTACK ON THE CITADEL EPIC! It was all so important and exciting.

And then ME2, TIM's like, "Oh yeah, there are these colonies that no one really cares about and they're like, disappearing, people think it's weird."

And my Shepard said, "THIS IS SO IMPORTANT I MUST JOIN A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION BEFORE EVEN TALKING TO THE COUNCIL OR ANYTHING OMG!" I was just like whatever.

Touché

[Dean_the_Young]

Nightwriter, everyone knows that the French aren't really human. Their Frogs. [/racist british slang]





Saving the galaxy in ME1 was really only the end-game: it really was a backwater humanity issue until the Citadel phase itself. Until then, it really was pretty much 'alien hates humans, attacks human colonies.'



The climax of ME2 certainly didn't have the galactic flair, but it had a much more personal connection (the kidnapping), and greater galactic implications as to the Reapers (and the flow of galactic power afterwords).

[samurai crusade]

Wow... those videos were lame. He's wrong on so many levels. and the background music. terrible ME has a great score. He should've just used that. haha

[Nightwriter]

But all earnest french fry fans can tell you they were created in Belgium, not France.

And ah, but in ME1 you got the sense that the Council was involved with what you were doing, they cared about your actions, you met with them repeatedly, you got the sense that Saren was an issue they cared deeply about, it all felt important.

Compare this to ME2, where the Council could give a rat's ass what you're doing, not even the Alliance cares, nobody cares, you could quit your mission and become a performing clown on Bekenstein and it would make no difference to them, no difference. Nobody cares, nobody nobody, not nobody no how, only random people who send you emails, oh how motivating, oh, the emails, the emails, the emails, who needs to be emotionally connected to the colonists when you have emails, now I'm set, now I am so motivated and focused, I don't even need to meet these people or learn anything about them because those emails are so freaking motivating, what more could a girl ask for.

If only they'd attacked Feros. I would care. How I would care. How pissed I would be. I'd be like, "Do you know what I had to go through to save that colony?! I'm coming for you, you f*cking four-eyed crickets!!! I'm coming!!!"

[samurai crusade]

Actually I felt in ME1 that the council wanted humanity to fail and wouldn't believe a word Shepard said. They dogged him for every action... especially in the post mission video conference.



I agree... wasn't a fan of the emails. One of my favorite moments was the call Shepard took from his Mom if you were a Spacer.... and then I get an EMAIL?!

[Epic777]

Nightwriter wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

I submit to the court of public opinion that Nightwriter might well be a misanthrope.

I beg your pardon, I'll have you know 'twas humanity which created french fries, and I am, therefore, its undying fan.

However, in ME1 you had to SAVE THE WHOLE GALAXY KA-POW! and there was AN ATTACK ON THE CITADEL EPIC! It was all so important and exciting.

And then ME2, TIM's like, "Oh yeah, there are these colonies that no one really cares about and they're like, disappearing, people think it's weird."

And my Shepard said, "THIS IS SO IMPORTANT I MUST JOIN A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION BEFORE EVEN TALKING TO THE COUNCIL OR ANYTHING OMG!" I was just like whatever.

?
me1 you you were looking for the conduit, there was something about the reapers but it was mostly stopping saren by stopping him gaining the conduit:whistle:

[Vaenier]

samurai crusade wrote...

Wow... those videos were lame. He's wrong on so many levels. and the background music. terrible ME has a great score. He should've just used that. haha

I do not like you. Bioware knows they can produce crap and people like you will buy it anyway, meaning they wont make good stuff for the rest of us. Get some standards damnit, demand competant writing and a decent story for your games. Or just go play Halo like I did if you want a good shooter.

[Lunatic LK47]

Nightwriter wrote...

If only they'd attacked Feros. I would care. How I would care. How pissed I would be. I'd be like, "Do you know what I had to go through to save that colony?! I'm coming for you, you f*cking four-eyed crickets!!! I'm coming!!!"

More or less this. The E3 trailer gave me the impression we would go to Feros at one point, despite the Reaper mission and Feros having a similar mission layout....