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[Zubi Fett]

Reorte wrote...

Sovereign is just the most powerful ship in the attacking force. Not getting all available friendly ships into the overall fight ASAP simply doesn't make sense to me unless you want an Allied victory but still want the other races to get weakened and not yours. The overall outcome of such a move would be total Allied losses higher, but fewer human ones.

To me, leaving the council to die would only make tactical sense if they were fleeing elsewhere and saving them would divert forces from the fight against Sovereign and the geth. I don't chose to save the Council, I chose to stop the most valuable military asset around from being trashed and to increase friendly forces during the Battle of the Citadel.

No doubt you make a good point. If you do save the council does any ship of any other race help againts Sovereign? It will be the logical thing but i think i didnt see anything about it on the game.
 But you right that saving them should make council races be more united and safe some resources.

Correct me if wrong, but if you choose to safe the council you only safe the Destiny Ascention right?(but i think if you do not safe them few Turian main Cruiser get destroy too, which will confirm everything what you said).
 With all this knowledge saving the Council seems more preferable for future events.

 First time i play I didnt think twice on sacrificing them, I automaticly thought saving the Human fleet for stoping Sovereign was the best option. On the end i think reserving the Alliance fleet to fight Soveragn is the most effective solution for clouse range problem that Sovereign is, but less effective in long terms. Saving the Destiny Ascention is risky for that situation but much better for future events.

Modifié par Zubi Fett, 25 décembre 2011 - 05:39 .

[Evil Lord Zog]

My Shep is pretty much a paragon until Udina and the Council shut her
down, at which point she goes full on renegade. Even so, she's
going to try and save as many lives as possible and she'll be damned if she lets those damn stinking AIs claim the scalps of the Council.

darknoon5 wrote...
1. United council<br />
2. Humanity seen as more willing to work with other races, and less aggressive. hopefully meaning better diplomatic relations<br />
3. 10,000 lives saved on the Ascension, as well as a huge dreadnought being saved.<br />
4. It seems silly to charge at Sovereign and leave a geth fleet behind your back.<br />
5. First time I'd hoped the Ascension would help destroy Sovereign...obviously, I was disappointed.<br />

This. I mean, there was a whole dialogue recorded for you to overhear about the sheer power of the main gun is so given you don't see it getting fired during the initial attack, there was totally the expectation that it would fire on Sovereign after he's crippled.

Ultimately, the Council's fate is logically secondary to saving that gun regardless of alignment, but the fact that humanity storms in to save everything and everyone? Absolutely the sort of thing a renegade should do, because success puts the council in the position it has to acknowledge (a) that Shepard was absolutely right in everything she said to them, and ( humanity's earned a place on the galactic stage. Both of which is frankly more humiliating -- and useful -- than letting the idiots die.

Sometimes it's far more cruel not to kill.

RVallant wrote...
(anyone else annoyed you couldn't say "Well it wasn't my idea..." when they berate you for using a nuke on Virmire?)

Yeah, there are a couple of occasions where the dialog options were lacking what should have been obvious responses

Big stupid jellyfish wrote...
As for placing civillians in
danger, yes, they did that because Shepard lacked evidence about the
real threat, aka 'Reapers', and about the Conduit. Sure my Shepard
wasn't very happy, and I wasn't happy with their decision either, but it
was made because of lack of evidence and information.

As a plot point, I could have accepted it. After all, we're used to the idea that you can't condemn people without proof.

Unfortuneately,
it's turned into a major plot hole by the asari and their psychic
abilities. There's no way that the Council wouldn't have psychics on
staff -- and most likely, enrolled as Spectres -- who could have
verified as Liara did not only the vision granted by the Eden Prime
beacon, but subsequentially the effects of being exposed to the Cipher
and the Virmire beacon, not to mention interviewing the former thrall
left behind on Theros if you don't execute her.

[Reorte]

Zubi Fett wrote...

 First time i play I didnt think twice on sacrificing them, I automaticly thought saving the Human fleet for stoping Sovereign was the best option. On the end i think reserving the Alliance fleet to fight Soveragn is the most effective solution for clouse range problem that Sovereign is, but less effective in long terms. Saving the Destiny Ascention is risky for that situation but much better for future events.

Even in the short term I don't see it as being tactically better - the rest of the geth are still there after all so the sooner you're in blowing them out the way the more friendly ships will be around to help attack Sovereign. If historic naval battles are anything to go by I can't think of any where some forces were held back unless it was to cover other possibilities (block escape routes, the possibility of enemy reinforcements on the way), other than keeping some smaller vessels out of the way. What would Nelson have done? That's why it would have been a harder decision for me if the Destiny Ascension was separated from the rest of the fleet and in danger, so saving it would clearly not be contributing to the overall Battle of the Citadel, in which Sovereign was the most powerful unit but still just one (big) part of the enemy fleet.

Mind you, I'm no general or admiral so I may be talking nonsense.

[Dr. Jacko]

Because I dig those crazy cats.

[Kradsk]

The Council is a symbol, I decided that saving them might cost more lives in the short term, but in the long run it would help keep the citadel races stable and hopeful. I also figured that soldiers know what they're getting into; they know that their job is to fight and possibly sacrifice their lives in order to protect others, especially when they are protecting government leaders.

[Zubi Fett]

Reorte wrote...

Zubi Fett wrote...

 First time i play I didnt think twice on sacrificing them, I automaticly thought saving the Human fleet for stoping Sovereign was the best option. On the end i think reserving the Alliance fleet to fight Soveragn is the most effective solution for clouse range problem that Sovereign is, but less effective in long terms. Saving the Destiny Ascention is risky for that situation but much better for future events.

Even in the short term I don't see it as being tactically better - the rest of the geth are still there after all so the sooner you're in blowing them out the way the more friendly ships will be around to help attack Sovereign. If historic naval battles are anything to go by I can't think of any where some forces were held back unless it was to cover other possibilities (block escape routes, the possibility of enemy reinforcements on the way), other than keeping some smaller vessels out of the way. What would Nelson have done? That's why it would have been a harder decision for me if the Destiny Ascension was separated from the rest of the fleet and in danger, so saving it would clearly not be contributing to the overall Battle of the Citadel, in which Sovereign was the most powerful unit but still just one (big) part of the enemy fleet.

Mind you, I'm no general or admiral so I may be talking nonsense.

I just created a post about it(should have done here but i was too excited).

The reason i safe them now its been you, you've convinced me its better, you make a very good point.
I wasnt 100% sure of saving them(something like 80%) but your comment of "the geth ships still around" just make it go 100%.

I m no general neather, but you tactical view of the battle its very good. 

I better stay on ground and dont go into Spaceship strategy games

Greetings and thank you.

Modifié par Zubi Fett, 10 février 2012 - 08:49 .

[Turian_punk_75]

I have several reasons

1) I'm a Spectre, I serve the council
2) Humans, as much as I love them, are not experienced enough in Galactic Politics to fully man the council chambers. Even if Anderson sits on the council I just don't think that they'd know how to handle Asari, Turian or Salarian affairs.
3) The council races, and more see Humans as like a Kid in a sweet shop (or candy store) and lets face it, the way Humans have conducted ourselves I can see why. I can imagine a sacrifice such as saving the council would make the rest of the Galaxy think 'Maybe they're a lot more mature than we thought they were', and in the end I liked the result (seat on the council)

Those are mine

[Evil Lord Zog]

I originally couldn't believe that the DA's offensive capabilities arn't given as a perfectly renegade cause to save them, but given that they must have okayed the utter mess that is the latest ME novel, I'm finding myself a lot less puzzled. I don't think they have editors over there.

[Lyrandori]

Originally, before ME2 was released, I saved the Council thinking that in ME2 Shepard would receive a lot of help from at least one if not all the three races represented by the Council, against the Reapers, directly or indirectly, in gratitude for the role that humanity played in saving them. After ME2 it was obvious that basically it served no purpose whatsoever, and that Reapers are nowhere to be seen in ME2 in the first place (Harbinger talks and that's about it). We ended up fighting a completely new "main antagonist" for that game specifically, namely the Collectors, which made me scratch my head more than anything else.

With that said and ever since ME2 was released, and from what I've read of the things going on in ME3, it looks like saving them still doesn't have much if any impact (remains to be seen for sure in ME3 I know, at least as of now anyway for me, I'm still mostly spoilers-free regarding ME3, so I shall see myself in due time). For now, when I re-play ME1 and get to that part I still save them despite what I know happens in ME2, since it just so happens that my main Shepard's role-play is that of a commander who tries to do everything better ever since the day following the events on Torfan (Colonist/Ruthless profile). For my Shepard if something is possible on paper, it's possible in real time, saving the Council was possible? Go for it.

It's just role-play and nothing else, otherwise I wouldn't save them with that specific Shepard. With another Shepard I let them die (Renegade).

[Scar2099]

because i knew the outcome. the paragon choice its a win win option.

In my original save they are all dead as loosing the galaxy to the reapers was not a choice.

[Lukebad]

Because I want to sex that asari chick while air-quoting "reapers"

[Reorte]

Lyrandori wrote...

Originally, before ME2 was released, I saved the Council thinking that in ME2 Shepard would receive a lot of help from at least one if not all the three races represented by the Council, against the Reapers, directly or indirectly, in gratitude for the role that humanity played in saving them. After ME2 it was obvious that basically it served no purpose whatsoever, and that Reapers are nowhere to be seen in ME2 in the first place (Harbinger talks and that's about it). We ended up fighting a completely new "main antagonist" for that game specifically, namely the Collectors, which made me scratch my head more than anything else.

It's made little difference to Shepard's job but if you listen to ME2's news stories (and some of the character interactions)  the relationships between humans and everyone else are far better if the council is saved.

[Silhouett3]

Simply because I knew if we didn't save them there'd been serious political ramifications and definitely the supreme interpersonal skills of Udina wasn't gonna cut through.

[Maples01]

Because I didn't want Obama ruining the galaxy. LMAO
How would the reapers respond to an appology.

[Lavaeolus]

On my first Paragon character, I saved them. In part because, you know, Parry Points, but also because it was in-character for her. She was all nice and ****, liked saving "civilians", and also recognised the galactic importance and whatnot of them.

Second playthrough and Male Renegade (called "Dick"): let them die (because he's a ******).

My Paragade recognised the Council''s importance, but also (without metagaming here) knew that Sovereign was more important. Because if Sovereign won, game over. So I spent a few minutes or so with my mouse over the "Save" option, and then quickly right-clicked and "Concentrated on Sovereign". Also, I hadn't sacrificed the Council yet (I was going with Dick and Paragadey at the same time), so it made for a nice change-of-pace. Also, everyone hating Paragadey actually sort of fitted with the character, who had admittedly had a rather terrible life (as a Colonist Sole Survivor).

[CDR David Shepard]

Because it's the right call.

Not because I knew how things end up in ME3...since I don't play that way.

It's the right call because you have an opportunity to save people.

[Tecnacothaka]

This place needs a like button

[wiccame]

Because the galaxy already thinks humanity wants to take over, killing them would only reinforce that.
Plus I like telling them where to shove their reinstatement in ME2.

[tagamaynila]

Because Tevos is one hot Asari.

Actually, it's the right thing to do. Me being all Paragon and such.

But Tevos is really hot.

[PsiFive]

Because I knew I was going to die and be brought back by The Idiotic Man in the second game and I'd only be able to regain my Spectre status or tell them to shove it up their cloacas etc if I saved the Council. Er, does metagaming count?

[Guy On The Moon]

Speaking from a militaristic point of view:

Spectres are like the Seal Team 6 of the the world (google them if you don't know em). They are the most special trained forces in the world and answer from the highest of highest and work with the CIA. They're still apart of the Navy, yes, but are that elite special force group 1st. If the world was in threat of ending, you send in Seal Team 6.

No matter how much they may despise their superiors, they are obligated to obey them, and thi goes for all military personel. If the one in charge told you to drive the ship into an iceberg you do it because that's just how things go. In a combat situation, you see your officer about to die you go out of your way to save them..even if it requires you and your other soldiers casualties because the officer/superior keeps everything together. It's not like a normal job where if you hate your boss you quit or tell him like it is. It's not that simple. You have obligations to the Council, so sacrificing tr the Council is sacrificing for the people it represents, just how sacrificing for the military is sacrificing for the people of the country.

[Twinzam.V]

Reorte wrote...

Sovereign is just the most powerful ship in the attacking force. Not getting all available friendly ships into the overall fight ASAP simply doesn't make sense to me unless you want an Allied victory but still want the other races to get weakened and not yours. The overall outcome of such a move would be total Allied losses higher, but fewer human ones.

To me, leaving the council to die would only make tactical sense if they were fleeing elsewhere and saving them would divert forces from the fight against Sovereign and the geth. I don't chose to save the Council, I chose to stop the most valuable military asset around from being trashed and to increase friendly forces during the Battle of the Citadel.

[Androme]

A completely blind, politically correct, overly-beurocratic and cowardly council of leaders doesn't deserve to live.

[ViciousCargo]

I used to save the Council so I could get them in the second one. Just to hear the turian guy say "ah, yes, reapers...." No other reason.