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Bioware - why always so crappy graphics?


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#51
jelf rs

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DarthCaine wrote...

Every company focuses their budget on different things.
Crytek, for example, has yet to hear of a little thing known as WRITERS.


Actually they do hired a writer for Crysis 2 this time.
But who would really care about the story when it comes to shooters.
COD series has the most mediocre story in the world and yet it sells the most.
But graphics is important to all kinds of games. Don't you see even puzzles games like Bejeweled 3 are trying to improve their graphics.
I don't think RPGs like Dragon Age has to achieve the best graphics in the industry. But for Dragon Age 2, which is released one year later than Mass Effect 2, should at least has graphics which is among the same level as Mass Effect 2.
But now, looking at those screenshots, what comes to my mind is Half-life 2 without HDR. And it's not Episode 1 or Episode 2, but the original Half-life 2 released in 2004.

Modifié par jelf rs, 14 janvier 2011 - 02:24 .


#52
Lady Catastrophe

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I've never played a game based on graphics.Ever.For me,it's all about the storyline,gameplay and memorable characters.

Which is exactly why I still play games like ZAMN despite the fact it's eighteen years old this year.

#53
UndercoverDoctor

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Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Sigh..

o rly

#54
jelf rs

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DarthCaine wrote...



Every company focuses their budget on different things.

Crytek, for example, has yet to hear of a little thing known as WRITERS.




Actually they do hired a writer for Crysis 2 this time.

But who would really care about the story when it comes to shooters.

COD series has the most mediocre story in the world and yet it sells the most.

But graphics is important to all kinds of games. Don't you see even puzzles games like Bejeweled 3 are trying to improve their graphics.

I don't think RPGs like Dragon Age has to achieve the best graphics in the industry. But for Dragon Age 2, which is released one year later than Mass Effect 2, should at least has graphics which is among the same level as Mass Effect 2.

But now, looking at those screenshots, what comes to my mind is Half-life 2 without HDR. And it's not Episode 1 or Episode 2, but the original Half-life 2 released in 2004.

#55
LadyKarrakaz

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hangmans tree wrote...

Well, we shall see bout the graphics. But have in mind the closest equivalent is The Witcher which is also voiced, and heavy on story/character design. And, by the way, looks marvelous and as much alive (pre-beta) as one could hope for DA2 to be at release...dammit.

SO the question still is not whether it can or can not be done. Its why it isnt.


Because the game was rushed just like Awakening was rushed? I still vividlly remember being told there would be 2 years of DLCs for Origins, and then... a rush of expansion and DA2. I'm afraid DA2 will look quite bad compared to the Witcher II. Just look at the textures in the Sebastian's vid, and then compare it to the witcher...

Anyway, I'll certainly buy and play both, so no point in comparing them. But I agree that DA2 lacks in graphic quality (at least with what has been shown so far) what it so desperatly tries to compensate with art style. 

Modifié par Purple Lady, 14 janvier 2011 - 02:30 .


#56
jelf rs

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Ummm.....

Sorry but it there a way to delete duplicated posts?

#57
Beerfish

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There is nothing wrong with people having a bit of a beef regarding graphics but the very first thing a person has to do is to look at the games he or she is comparing BioWare games against. In many cases people will be comparing apples to oranges.



Comparing a 1st person shooter for instance where you have either one or no companions makes a difference. The camera angle makes a difference. Can you zoom in or out can make a difference.



In the design of the game things like poly counts and game performance are going to be fighting against camera angles, zooms and such.



Then comes other in game content that sucks up memory. Then comes up variety of animations and how battles are handled.



There are quite a few things that come into play when talking about graphics, just make sure you are comparing apples to apples when looking at how games look.

#58
Eski.Moe

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I understand finding the graphics of Dragon Age wanting. I don't mind them personally but they're not the best. Mass Effect though? Are you freaking serious? Have you even seen Mass Effect 2 in action? If you think that to be bad in the graphics department then I'm honestly lost for words. Besides, if you're playing Bioware games for that reason then I don't think you're doing right.

#59
Youmu

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Witcher II is also PC exclusive, they have a whole lot more resources (RAM, VRAM, CPU speed) to use, compared to if they had to release the game for the consoles as well.

#60
surfgirlusa_2006

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Youmu wrote...

Witcher II is also PC exclusive, they have a whole lot more resources (RAM, VRAM, CPU speed) to use, compared to if they had to release the game for the consoles as well.


According to Gamespot, it's being released on the Xbox 360 and PS3 as well. 

#61
jelf rs

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surfgirlusa_2006 wrote...

Youmu wrote...

Witcher II is also PC exclusive, they have a whole lot more resources (RAM, VRAM, CPU speed) to use, compared to if they had to release the game for the consoles as well.


According to Gamespot, it's being released on the Xbox 360 and PS3 as well. 


The Witcher 2 is PC exclusive for now. No plan has been made for console versions. Official word. And I seldom trust those gaming sites which are commercial.

#62
RunNeonTiger

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I don't really see the point in judging DA2's graphics right now because I believe it was Gaider who said the game wasn't finished yet, and we've seen a very steady improvement in the graphics over the past few months.
EDIT: That being said, I really don't believe the graphics will be up to most of the people complaining's standards when it's finished, but I believe the game will look very nice as far as I'm concerned. At least, as long as Isabela gets a breast reduction. Large breasts are fine, but the size of hers are a bit jarring, but that's a bit OT.

Modifié par RunNeonTiger, 14 janvier 2011 - 02:51 .


#63
peril

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How can you accurately judge the quality of game graphics from a few stills and clips, anyway? How stuff flows together and reflects my inability to run in a straight line is a pretty big part of the visual experience, at least for me.

#64
Guest_Rakia_Time_*

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If the graphics is the first thing you look at then i'm sorry for you, it's the story and characters that are important

#65
KLUME777

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And here i thought Mass Effect 2 was one of the best looking games (if not the best) on the 360...

Modifié par KLUME777, 14 janvier 2011 - 02:56 .


#66
Mlaar

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PrinceOfFallout13 wrote...

art style> graphics

games like limbo prove graphics dont make a game i just wonder what was your opinion on n64 and ps1 games? those games had horrible graphics

Yes they had horrible graphics but at the time they were ohh so very good and in 10 years time people will look back and say omg ps3 xbox360 graphics were nasty. People say they prefer story over gfx and yes im one of these but if 2 amazing story games were released on the same day for the same price with the only difference being one has superior gfx and you could only afford one which would you purchase!! high probabillity is the one that looks good Image IPB

#67
EpicBoot2daFace

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BaudolinoX wrote...


I`ve been playing the mass effect and dragon age franchises and always irks me about the games is the really awfull graphics.

Bioware appears to be consistently half a generation behind it`s competitiors. I`ve played bioware games for the story, but i tend to buy games on large part for their graphics as well.

Even Dragon age II which was supposed to have upgraded graphics looks years old already and it`s not even out yet.

Gameplay graphics look foggy with bland textures and awkward gestures. I love a good story, but if the gameplay and graphics aren`t up to par then, for me at least, the entertainment value takes a dive.

With everything that has been said about improved graphics it was depressing to find that the actual graphical difference is negligible- i doubt there will be an overhaul these last two months. Afterall the game has to enter production shortly if it`s to reach the outlets in time.

I was going to pre-order the game, but these last two weeks looking at the gameplay footage have turned me away. I`ll wait for the Eurogamer: Digital Foundry  and IGN reviews before i decide whether to actually buy the game at all.

I had hoped Bioware put more effort into designing the game- there are so many good looking games on this generation i`m left utterly bewildered as to how BioWare manages to consistently lag so far behind the curve.

If BioWare simply lacks the competence to do the design work why not stick to making stories and gameplay concepts while hiring someone else to do the graphical presentation?

It`s a legitimate question- no one has accused BioWare of cutting edge graphics- maybe cutting edge effort with outdated graphics engines, but not cutting edge graphics..


Aside from the really poor clothing/armor in Mass Effect 1&2, I thought both games looked great. Dragon Age uses the old KOTOR engine, and needs some serious updating. Even DA2 doesn't stand up to Mass Effect 2, but it's a lot closer than Origins ever got.

#68
AlexXIV

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Can anyone post a screenshot that shows how Bioware graphics are bad? Especially interesting to compare with other RPGs, since I think they are all about same 'bad' or 'good' however you want to look at it.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 14 janvier 2011 - 03:16 .


#69
errant_knight

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I liked the graphic in DA:O. I really hate the look of DA2, but there's nothing wrong with the quality in terms of it's technical aspects.

#70
Arthur Cousland

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Pretty graphics are always nice, but they're just bonus. If I'm having a blast playing the game, that's what matters the most.



I'd rather Bioware do a better job at bug testing their games prior to release than worry too much about graphics. If they can improve at both, then all the better.

#71
Khayness

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EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Dragon Age uses the old KOTOR engine, and needs some serious updating.


It doesn't use the Odyssey Engine, it uses the Eclipse.

#72
jelf rs

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RunNeonTiger wrote...



I don't really see the point in judging DA2's graphics right now because I believe it was Gaider who said the game wasn't finished yet, and we've seen a very steady improvement in the graphics over the past few months.

EDIT: That being said, I really don't believe the graphics will be up to most of the people complaining's standards when it's finished, but I believe the game will look very nice as far as I'm concerned. At least, as long as Isabela gets a breast reduction. Large breasts are fine, but the size of hers are a bit jarring, but that's a bit OT.




Fine. You won. I'll accept the crappy graphics as long as her breasts remain the same size.

#73
eqzitara

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Graphics are good.

Dude these  are 40 hour rpgs. Your comparing graphics with what a 2 hour gears of war? Seriously this is why we have been seeing less and less rpgs.

PS name any console RPG with better graphics (thats not witcher 2) with better graphics.

Modifié par eqzitara, 14 janvier 2011 - 03:34 .


#74
AlexXIV

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eqzitara wrote...

Graphics are good.

Dude these  are 40 hour rpgs. Your comparing graphics with what a 2 hour gears of war? Seriously this is why we have been seeing less and less rpgs.

PS name any console RPG with better graphics (thats not witcher 2) with better graphics.


Witcher only had maybe a dozen different face textures. You couldn't tell if you are talking to a random mob on the street or one of the most important quest npcs of the game. I don't know why people always bring up this game in comparison with Bioware game when it is not even playing in the same league. And TW2 better make a hyper jump to meet up with the expectations some people seem to have. Because the first was lame on so many levels that I don't even want to get started.

#75
Anexity

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BaudolinoX wrote...


I`ve been playing the mass effect and dragon age franchises and always irks me about the games is the really awfull graphics.


Really? ME uses the Unreal engine, aside from the texture popping in the Xbox version of ME, the graphics were great. DAO may have skimmped on them, but that was simply because high end graphics would have caused the game to require an entire hard drive's worth of space. Sometimes one has to choose between a great story or the best graphics.

Bioware appears to be consistently half a generation behind it`s competitiors. I`ve played bioware games for the story, but i tend to buy games on large part for their graphics as well.


If so, Bioware games are not for you. Bioware has always focused on story and gameplay first. Personally I could care less if a game looks nice, if it has little to no story (as many shooters do) it's not worth my money.

Even Dragon age II which was supposed to have upgraded graphics looks years old already and it`s not even out yet.


DA2 uses the same engine as DAO, just tweaked. This allowed them to release it just over a year after DAO, rather than 3-4 years later. The new artstyle is a matter of opinion, so we can't really argue that point

Gameplay graphics look foggy with bland textures and awkward gestures. I love a good story, but if the gameplay and graphics aren`t up to par then, for me at least, the entertainment value takes a dive.


The gameplay has nothing to do with graphics. Until we get our hands on it we won't know what the gameplay is really like. I agree that bad gameplay mechanics can ruin a game, but you are confusing that with good graphics.

With everything that has been said about improved graphics it was depressing to find that the actual graphical difference is negligible- i doubt there will be an overhaul these last two months. Afterall the game has to enter production shortly if it`s to reach the outlets in time.


They meant improved from DAO. This uses the same engine, there is only so much they can do. Nobody ever said the graphics were going to be years beyond the first.

I was going to pre-order the game, but these last two weeks looking at the gameplay footage have turned me away. I`ll wait for the Eurogamer: Digital Foundry and IGN reviews before i decide whether to actually buy the game at all.


To each their own. Personally the more I see, the more my worries about DA2 are put to rest. Still if you're on the fence, it's a good plan to look at reviews.

I had hoped Bioware put more effort into designing the game- there are so many good looking games on this generation i`m left utterly bewildered as to how BioWare manages to consistently lag so far behind the curve.


And you're basing this on what? That the graphics aren't the best in the world? You're putting way too much weight on grapahics/looks. It is this attitude that makes publisher sacrifcie good gameplay and story for pretty graphics.

If BioWare simply lacks the competence to do the design work why not stick to making stories and gameplay concepts while hiring someone else to do the graphical presentation?


See above. What in Bioware's existing lineup points towards them not being able to desgn their games?

It`s a legitimate question- no one has accused BioWare of cutting edge graphics- maybe cutting edge effort with outdated graphics engines, but not cutting edge graphics..


You just answered your own question, I think.

I don't know about you, but I'd rather have a fun game than an art show.

Modifié par Anexity, 14 janvier 2011 - 03:56 .