92 réponses à ce sujet

[Ob4rul3r]

Hey there. I just wrote down the following complaint in one of the topics (indirectly) concerning this issue in the Dragon Age 2 Forum, where someone of Bioware just closed the topic due to "offtopic" discussion, and I was told to post this in the Offtopic Section of the forum so: Here's my complaint, enjoy:




Well, this is my very first comment in this Forum, and I am only posting
here to complain a bit about Biowares/ EAs behaviour with the Steam
Version of Dragon Age 2.


I have purchased ALL my games
digitally during the last ~2 years (except there's a nice Retail
Collectors Edition arround where I am able to register my key later to
my Steam account, so it will happen at Shogun 2s and Homefronts CE
Editions - both already pre-ordered at Amazon and they will be bought
once I get confimation that I will be able to register these games at my
Steam Account - which will most likely be the case, considering SEGAs
and THQ latest PC releases that all came with Steamworks) at Steam,
since it is the Download Service that offers me the most benefits and is
the best-developed system all in all. But since there is not the
slightest chance that this will be possible with EA games in the near
future I have to buy them directly in the Steam Store.

I am also a
fan of Bioware Games, which caused me much trouble the last weeks
because Steam seemed to be the only platform that wasn't allowed to
offer the Signature Edition (digitally) - whatever is the higher reason
behind this shall be discussed by others, I am not here to rage about EA
or paritipate in conspiracy discussion, I'm basically just sad that my
favourite platform was ignored that way, and with Steam I as well as a
Steam customer.

To "solve" this issue (since I wanted both the
digital extra cookies and the downloadable Soundtrack of the Signature
Edition) I pre-ordered it Retail now at Amazon.de AND at Amazon.co.uk
(still thinking who'll be allowed to in fact deliver it to me, UK is way
cheaper, but hurr, a Role play in anything but your own main language
..... :--/ ). Considering the fact that I still want it at Steam I hope
that there will be a way to "transfere" digital content from on version
to the other, means: I purchase the game both at Amazon and Steam, and
hopefully the extra content comes as a seperated code (in that case I'd
simply gift the basic game itself of the retail copy to a friend of
mine) or register both version and hopefully be able to use the
Signature Extra Weapons at my Steam version as well. And yes, I know
this is insane and a money waste, but I don't care about extra money for
a game I like .... besides: what else to do?! :-/


I just
want to point out that I am DEEPLY DISAPPOINTED by Bioware (or more
likely: EA, since they are the ones that are in charge to decide such
stuff as the owner/publisher of Bioware). I do see the point that Steam
is a concurrent platform to EAs own Download Shop, but let me underline
my stand: I will never use any other Download Store but Steam, since it
is the only platform that doesnt offer me just DRM but some real Pros
(like the Ingame overlay as an example, that gives me Inter-game chat to
my friends and a Browser).


I am definetely not a pirate (proof: My Steam Accounts
Game count - Ignore the appearing error, just "Enter" the URL again to see the profile), and in fact I hate everyone that is not willing to pay
for the entertainment the hard working developers are providing them
with, but when I consider that - just like at any other game - I could
simply have the game with ALL available content for "free" and without
any restrictions or limited pre-order stuff at only a few platforms ....
well, just saying. The only thing you achieve with this is enrage loyal
customers just as myself and various other Steam Users.

Modifié par Ob4rul3r, 14 janvier 2011 - 06:39 .

[Loerwyn]

Ob4rul3r wrote...
(like the Ingame overlay as an example, that gives me Inter-game chat to my friends and a Browser). 

Hardly a reason, seeing as you can run games with the Steam Overlay no matter where they're from.

But seriously, what? Open your eyes and look at the EA catalogue on Steam, and it should be instantly clear that EA and Valve aren't the best of friends, and that you need to stop suckling at Valve's teat and - for some products - take your business elsewhere.

Your choices are there, the options are available to you. EA don't exist to pander to your every desire and whim and if they choose not to offer one of their products on Steam then that's their choice - You simply go to Direct2Drive, Impulse or GamersGate - All of which would have the same DRM as Steam, and would cost you the same price and buy your product there. What have you lost? Two minutes of your time registering elsewhere, longer in the case of Impulse as to install games from them you have to install their own software, and that's it.

Seriously. In this market you cannot stick to one provider and hope to have access to all the titles you want. It's ludicrous to even think that you can.

[Forsythia]

I thought it was clear already that this wasn't a conspiracy. While I don't like EA that much, the people working at BioWare do seem to care about their fans and regret not having the SE of Dragon Age II on Steam as much as I do.



And I love my Steam too, but in this case I preordered the SE at retail. Might pick up DAII on Steam when it's on sale, as the SE items are tied to my BioWare account.

[Ob4rul3r]

So ..... they won't change the item register system - just as I thought - and by pre-ordering BOTH the Bioware Signature Edition (4 Ingame Items) and the normal digital one at Steam (2 Ingame Items) I will be able to use them in both versions?! =)

Well, buying 2 games just to get all items is insane as I already said, but as a huge fan I am more than willingly to pay the price ... I DO WANT all available stuff at my Steam version (game soundtracks btw), so if this will work that way I'd be a "little" bit more satisfied, allthough it still feels wrong beeing treated like that only because I prefer purchasing and playing with/through Steam ....



@ OnlyShallow89

It's not just the overlay, it's the auto-updateing of all my installed games, the sorted library of all the games I do own, the easy-as-peeing way of DLL/installing any game by just clicking on it (fast internet connection ftw), the possibilitie of re-downloading every game as much as I want (can't install all games I own at Steam at once, there ain't an HDD big enough to do so xD) when I feel the need to reinstall it ..... compared to other DDL platforms Steam is simply superior - I am saying this as a former Steam Hater, that raged back when I was forced to use it to install Half Life 2 ...

Valve ain't a rip-off company, unlike many others, I fully trust them, and if you listen to what smaller developers say about cooperating(working with Valves Steam they are a wonderful partner as a shop for their products.

Steam conviced me of digital distribution, and currently I don't see the need ton install another client to buy games elsewhere (no Pros for me), the only exception had been with StarCraft 2: WoL Collectors Edition, since Blizard will never ever offer their games at Steam since they have their own platform called BattleNet 2.0 .....

But to be more exactly: When I currently can't purchase a game through Steam I won't play it, it's that simple. And I'm not the only one thinking that way. Maybe when an "Uber-Game" appears that only comes at another DDL platform I'll change up my mind, but since any interesting game (except Blizzard titles) comes out on Steam as well I don't see why I should change my Purchase Behaviour. If Dragon Age II would'nt have popped up o at Steam for Pre-Purchasing as well I maybe wouldn't have played it at Release and would have waited for the Ultimate Edition.

Call me a member of the infamous "Steam Hammer Legion" if you want, but I am the customer and it's my decision.

Modifié par Ob4rul3r, 14 janvier 2011 - 07:23 .

[Loerwyn]

Ob4rul3r wrote...
So ..... they won't change the item register system - just as I thought - and by pre-ordering BOTH the Bioware Signature Edition (4 Ingame Items) and the normal digital one at Steam (2 Ingame Items) I will be able to use them in both versions?! =)

Uh, those two items come with the Signature Edition too. 

Ob4rul3r wrote...
allthough it still feels wrong beeing treated like that only because I prefer purchasing and playing with/through Steam ....

EA and Valve have been like this for years. It's nothing new yet people are acting as if it's the first time it's ever happened.

Modifié par OnlyShallow89, 14 janvier 2011 - 07:13 .

[Acellion]

I don't like manually updating. but i didnt buy from steam either i got it from impulse because i wanted sig. Dragon Age 2 better have an autoupdate feature in game that will fetch them.

[Ob4rul3r]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

Ob4rul3r wrote...
So ..... they won't change the item register system - just as I thought - and by pre-ordering BOTH the Bioware Signature Edition (4 Ingame Items) and the normal digital one at Steam (2 Ingame Items) I will be able to use them in both versions?! =)

Uh, those two items come with the Signature Edition too. 

Ob4rul3r wrote...
allthough it still feels wrong beeing treated like that only because I prefer purchasing and playing with/through Steam ....

EA and Valve have been like this for years. It's nothing new yet people are acting as if it's the first time it's ever happened.

I know.

There are games arround that even still aren't available at all at Steam like The Sims.


But now with DA II it's the first time that many core gamers at once are affected by this "weird" behaviour from EA. That's why for the first time there's a little rant about it, since we feel like second class customers.


It's simple: The don't want our money through the nasty Steam Shop - they won't get it.

EA must already have enough money ...  and pls consider that even Steam Customer (or more than others?) have to and WILL willingly buy the DLC from the Bioware Store ...

Modifié par Ob4rul3r, 14 janvier 2011 - 07:28 .

[Loerwyn]

Ob4rul3r wrote...
It's not just the overlay, it's the auto-updateing of all my installed games, the sorted library of all the games I do own, the easy-as-peeing way of DLL/installing any game by just clicking on it (fast internet connection ftw), the possibilitie of re-downloading every game as much as I want (can't install all games I own at Steam at once, there ain't an HDD big enough to do so xD) when I feel the need to reinstall it ..... compared to other DDL platforms Steam is simply superior - I am saying this as a former Steam Hater, that raged back when I was forced to use it to install Half Life 2 ...

Valve ain't a rip-off company, unlike many others, I fully trust them, and if you listen to what smaller developers say about cooperating(working with Valves Steam they are a wonderful partner as a shop for their products.

Steam conviced me of digital distribution, and currently I don't see the need ton install another client to buy games elsewhere (no Pros for me), the only exception had been with StarCraft 2: WoL Collectors Edition, since Blizard will never ever offer their games at Steam since they have their own platform called BattleNet 2.0 .....

But to be more exactly: When I currently can't purchase a game through Steam I won't play it, it's that simple. And I'm not the only one thinking that way. Maybe when an "Uber-Game" appears that only comes at another DDL platform I'll change up my mind, but since any interesting game (except Blizzard titles) comes out on Steam as well I don't see why I should change my Purchase Behaviour. If Dragon Age II would'nt have popped up o at Steam for Pre-Purchasing as well I maybe wouldn't have played it at Release and would have waited for the Ultimate Edition.

Call me a member of the infamous "Steam Hammer Legion" if you want, but I am the customer and it's my decision.

Your loss. I'll enjoy playing many games that you've got absolutely no access to, and I'll enjoy better offers that happen more frequently.

Still no grounds to complain, though. If you're unwilling to use a second store, then it's your own damned fault and nothing to do with EA, especially considering how many EA games don't come to Steam.

Ob4rul3r wrote...
So ..... they won't change the item register system - just as I thought - and by pre-ordering BOTH the Bioware Signature Edition (4 Ingame Items) and the normal digital one at Steam (2 Ingame Items) I will be able to use them in both versions?! =)

Uh, those two items come with the Signature Edition too. 

Ob4rul3r wrote...
There are games arround that even still aren't available at all at Steam like The Sims.

But now with DA II it's the first time that many core gamers at once are affected by this "weird" behaviour from EA. That's why for the first time there's a little rant about it, since we feel like second class customers.

"Core gamers"? What? The Sims only sells, what, millions more than BioWare games do - right?

Modifié par OnlyShallow89, 14 janvier 2011 - 07:30 .

[Bryy_Miller]

You know, I think during ME3's development time, the forums will escalate to physically going to other forumers houses and having a gun battle. That's the only possible next level for this.

[Ob4rul3r]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...


Your loss. I'll enjoy playing many games that you've got absolutely no access to,

Such as ...?! =)


Don't name older games now plz, be assured I have a huge, almost completely filled rack with a ton of retail games. I switched from collecting games as retail copy to collecting them at Steam ~2 years ago, so all games worthy to be played should be most likely in my collection somehow .... and I can't imgaine any newer game that ain't available at Steam.

[lv12medic]

Acellion wrote...

I don't like manually updating. but i didnt buy from steam either i got it from impulse because i wanted sig. Dragon Age 2 better have an autoupdate feature in game that will fetch them.

Impulse has an update feature I think, (though its still somewhat manual as in you have to tell it to check for an update).

The only problem with pre-ordering the retail version and pre-ordering through steam is that you'll end up with two codes for the generic (Fadeshear sword and Lion of Orlais shield) pre-order items.  Though you can probably just give the extra code to a friend that didn't pre-order or something.  Unless thats against the terms of use of said cards.  (gotta cover myself :innocent:).

EA and Valve's relationship seems really weird to me though.  I've seen people mention that EA is the publisher for Valve titles to console (like TF2 and Portal).  But they're really finicky with EA published PC games through Steam.  It reminds me of the wacky relationships of Time Warner Cable and different network providers.  Every few months I hear on the news about how Time Warner Cable's contract with a certain network is about to expire and that that programming will end soon, so you better call Time Warner Cable to tell them you want to watch their network.  They seem to "resolve" their issues just days before the contract expiration.

Considering EA is a pretty large company, I'm sure there's lots of arguing back and forth in board meetings and such about what to do.  I'm sure the people that run the EA Store digital download service want a better market share.  Other's want the game to sell well everywher.  I'ms sure there are others still that think the EA Store is a dead end and should be cut completely.  And there's probably some that think Steam is a joke.  It's a thousand-headed beast that wants to go a thousand different directions.

[Ob4rul3r]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...


Uh, those two items come with the Signature Edition too. 

Well, thx for that ... doesn't make a difference since I already told you that I will go for both versions anyways ... if it's just about the money: Don't care the slightest bit about it, when I purchase both from UK it's still an acceptable sum, not more than regular Collector Editions + Games are my hobby for a decade now, so I am already used to the fact that I have somestimes to spend a bit more money.

"Core gamers"? What? The Sims only sells, what, millions more than BioWare games do - right?

Well, Core Gamers are the type of gamer that play more "complicated" titles, that have games as their hobby and frequently buy titles all over the year, and not just The Sims + Addons. Unluckily many of them have switched to use consoles lately (got some as well for the exclusives) ... you know, the guys that are the foundation of the big Game Publishers, that buy their mayor titles. = )

Modifié par Ob4rul3r, 14 janvier 2011 - 07:37 .

[Loerwyn]

Ob4rul3r wrote...
Such as ...?! =)

Don't name older games now plz, be assured I have a huge, almost completely filled rack with a ton of retail games. I switched from collecting games as retail copy to collecting them at Steam ~2 years ago, so all games worthy to be played should be most likely in my collection somehow .... and I can't imgaine any newer game that ain't available at Steam.

Put it this way... Steam has 18 titles listed as 'Coming Soon', whereas Game.co.uk has 100. Will some of them come to Steam? Sure, I would wager a good number will.

All games 'worthy' to be played? Wow. Just... Wow.

Ob4rul3r wrote...
Well, thx for that ... doesn't make a difference since I already told you that I will go for both versions anyways ... if it's just about the money: Don't care the slightest bit about it, when I purchase both from UK it's still an acceptable sum, not more than regular Collector Edition + Games are my hobby for a decade now, so I am already used to the fact that I have somestimes to spend a bit more money.

Why are you buying the same game twice? It makes absolutely bugger all sense whichever way you look at it.

Ob4rul3r wrote...
Well, Core Gamers are the type of gamer that play more "complicated" titles, that have games as their hobby and frequently buy titles all over the year, and not just The Sims + Addons. Unluckily many of them have switched to use consoles lately (got some as well for the exclusives) ... you know, the guys that are the foundation of the big Game Publishers, that buy their mayor titles. = )

Dragon Age? Complicated? Ha.

You know what the 'core gamers' are? They're the people you see in the street, the men who buy Call of Duty because they think it's awesome, the mums who buy Professor Layton to keep them active when they're not playing FarmVille, the kids who go ZOMG MUMMY BUY MARIO NOW, the teen boys who fanw@nk over Assassin's Creed and the girls who buy The Sims and its expansions! People who'll buy Dragon Age 2 are far from the 'core'. 

Modifié par OnlyShallow89, 14 janvier 2011 - 07:42 .

[Ob4rul3r]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...


Put it this way... Steam has 18 titles listed as 'Coming Soon', whereas Game.co.uk has 100. Will some of them come to Steam? Sure, I would wager a good number will.

All games 'worthy' to be played? Wow. Just... Wow.

Urrr .... that list is definetely incomplete. EAs, Ubisofts, (etc.) upcoming releases for PC aren't listed there - obviously. The only listed titles there are (not all of them) titles that will be shipped with Steamworks. Each bigger game - or "AAA titles" as some say - will pop up at least a few days before release and/or at release itself, just like they did in the past few years.

It ain't such a bad thing at all, since - unlike Amazon - you have to instantly pay for pre-purchased games at Steam. If all Games that will be released this year would be already be available for pre-purchasing there I might be ending up at a small bankrupt, since it would eat up way more than my regularay planed "amusement spend/ month". ^^

[Loerwyn]

Ob4rul3r wrote...
Urrr .... that list is definetely incomplete. EAs, Ubisofts, (etc.) upcoming releases for PC aren't listed there - obviously. The only listed titles there are (not all of them) titles that will be shipped with Steamworks. Each bigger game - or "AAA titles" as some say - will pop up at least a few days before release and/or at release itself, just like they did in the past few years.

Well done. Read my post again before reiterating what I said. 

[lv12medic]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

Why are you buying the same game twice? It makes absolutely bugger all sense whichever way you look at it.

Well, technically speaking, buying a game more than once can be beneficial (with proper sales and content).  I have DA:O on disc and DA:O ultimate edition through Steam.  The Ultimate Edition on sale was cheaper than buying all the DLC seperately.  I suppose you could say I bought a DLC pack that just happend to come with a copy of the game though.

[Ob4rul3r]

Mhhh .... I must say that I haven't fully read that last post of yours, sorry for that, my answer indeed was needless .... but still EA seems to be the only bigger publisher that has such a problem with Steam. I wonder why ..





On a personal note I wanna let you know that I slowly get the impression that you are one of these guys that appear in any forum that simply hate Steam.

[Loerwyn]

I have Steam running as we speak, and I have it up all day everyday. To say I hate it would be extremely incorrect.

I do, however, find it supremely irritating and illogical that people lock themselves to one platform for no reason, and then **** and moan when the game they want doesn't appear DESPITE the game's publisher routinely not distributing their games there either in a timely manner (Hot Pursuit) or at all (Most of ther games), and they pull the 'OH WAI CAN I NOT BUY IT?!' card because they're too damn lazy/up themselves to buy elsewhere.

Modifié par OnlyShallow89, 14 janvier 2011 - 08:02 .

[Moondoggie]

Ob4rul3r wrote...

Mhhh .... I must say that I haven't fully read that last post of yours, sorry for that, my answer indeed was needless .... but still EA seems to be the only bigger publisher that has such a problem with Steam. I wonder why ..


On a personal note I wanna let you know that I slowly get the impression that you are one of these guys that appear in any forum that simply hate Steam.

Learn some history. It takes two to tango this stuff is NOT just EA. Valve can be just as unreasonable if not more. EA has their own way of doing things as far as DRM goes and using somebody elses DRM right now is not a big part of the plan. It's not all hatred though EA still does some publishing for Valve as seen with the deal to publish the retail version of Portal 2 but you can bet that deal took a while to hammer out.

[Ob4rul3r]

Well, to solve your confusion you must see it from my prespective:

To me, the biggest advantage of the Consoles PS3 and XBox360 ain't the unified Hardware base, the low costs or the advantage of no installation need by simply puting in the disc .... it's the fact that they offer gamers a platform.

Xbox has Live, PS3 has PSN, PC has .... nothing. MicroSoft would have been in charge here, but they focussed on their Console instead, PC gamers are left behind with a confusing (for more unexperienced users - when it comes to Installing, Bug fixing, patching, etc.) and uncomfortable "Un-unifiedness". Since Games for Windows Live is still nothing more but a bad Joke the only thing we have is Steam, which is more and more filling that gap of MicroSoft by providing me with the stuff that I expect: Library, Marketplace for Low Cost / Indie Games, Community, Chat, etc.

Steams Competitors doesn't offer me the full band of service that Steam does, and by using multiple clients I would again split everything up, that's why I tie me and my game collection at Steam exclusively.


This worked up pretty well for me so far, I don't wanna miss Steam ever again from my current point of view. There might be a better platform in the future, but since I can't see anyone catching up to where Valve already is with Steam I don't feel the need to untie me from Steam again.

Inarborat wrote...

For some of us, it was region locked on
all other digital services. I don't want to buy a retail copy because I
move a lot more than the average person.

^Ye, this as well. All I saw at Impulse was "not available in your region" (coming from germany) - thx so far.

Modifié par Ob4rul3r, 14 janvier 2011 - 08:14 .

[Moondoggie]

PC gamers managed fine to find updates and patches before Steam showed up. Why not now? Do they need to be constantly asked to download updates even for games they don't even own?

[Ob4rul3r]

They do, I am used to that as well .... but why making it less comfortable for yourself?

As I mentioned somewhere above already, when I want a game from my library I click on the game, it loads automatically the newest version of the game, it installs itself automatically into the Steam folder once it's done with downloading and I try to start it, done. I don't have to play "Disc Jockey" with several discs that contain the needed data, I don't need to find the latest patch and install it per Hand, I don't have to manually run through the whole installation procedure, the Steam Client is doing everything in the background. GTA 4's Steam Version was even loaded/installed faster than the retail version of it at it's launch (almost an hour, thx to additional programs like the Social Club -.-), thx to my fast line at Steam it lastet less than 30min.

Modifié par Ob4rul3r, 14 janvier 2011 - 08:24 .