92 réponses à ce sujet

[Loerwyn]

Inarborat wrote...
You've gotta be kidding me by saying Valve is more unreasonable than EA.  No large company is full of saints but you'd be hardpressed to find a game publisher/dev that's treated it's fans as well as Valve has.

They can only do it because their games sell so well, and it's really only the PC that gets that treatment. Team Fortress 2 on the 360 and PS3 (The PS3 got an abysmal port of the Orange Box, I believe) have been updated nowhere near as much as the PC version, and they're now practically two completely different games.

Counter-Strike and Team Fortress 2 are two of the most popular multiplayer PC shooters, with Half-Life 2 and its episodes being some of the most popular single player shooters. They're constantly selling, and they use the updates as a way to get more sales. Team Fortress 2 just got a massive update? Put it on sale for 33% off. Updated Half Life 2 and Episode 1 to have achievements? Put 'em on sale.

It's not like Valve do anything else, is it?

[Moondoggie]

Inarborat wrote...


You've gotta be kidding me by saying Valve is more unreasonable than EA.  No large company is full of saints but you'd be hardpressed to find a game publisher/dev that's treated it's fans as well as Valve has.  Publishers put their own form of DRM on Steam games if they choose to do so and the product page informs you of what form of DRM so that's clearly not the issue.  The time limit of the Signature Edition was kind of strange for me.  Why stop it 2 months before the game comes out?  If their strategy was to limit Steams marketshare, go for it and don't put it up on Steam until a week before the release date.  I believe something similar happened with Mass Effect 2's Digital Deluxe Edition. 

Of course, I like the idea that DRM doesn't stop piracy, it only encourages it.  But, that's a whole other topic. 

I'd rather not turn this into another "i hate EA" thread by arguing the policies of EA with people.

The Signiture Edition is a special offer for early pre orders. It encourages a lot more pre ordering which is a good thing. It's simple marketing stratagy offering longtime fans of the game the chance to get a bit extra with a limited edition pre order version..

And if Valve treats their fans so well why can they never bring a game out on time? Why do they constantly mess fans around with releases "yes we are, no we aren't we'll release it in another 6 months" They are unreasonable to other members of the industry who try to work with their stupid demands. Gabe Newell i'd say is one of the most unreasonable human beings on the planet and he prides himself on it. As do his fans for some reason.

EA has the right to do with their properties what they wish and if that includes not wanting to deal with Valve i'm all for it.

[Loerwyn]

Moondoggie wrote...
And if Valve treats their fans so well why can they never bring a game out on time? Why do they constantly mess fans around with releases "yes we are, no we aren't we'll release it in another 6 months" They are unreasonable to other members of the industry who try to work with their stupid demands. Gabe Newell i'd say is one of the most unreasonable human beings on the planet and he prides himself on it. As do his fans for some reason.

Ah, gotta love the L4D1 DLC. The Passing was supposed to be out in April/May, I think. Didn't it come out about six months after that? Six months is a complete pisstake for a single campaign, no matter which way you look at it.

[Moondoggie]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

Ah, gotta love the L4D1 DLC. The Passing was supposed to be out in April/May, I think. Didn't it come out about six months after that? Six months is a complete pisstake for a single campaign, no matter which way you look at it.

They were probably "tweaking the engine" that seems to be their cut and paste excuse when they constantly fail to release anything ever.

Modifié par Moondoggie, 14 janvier 2011 - 08:45 .

[Loerwyn]

Moondoggie wrote...
They were probably "tweaking the engine" that seems to be their cut and paste excuse when they constantly fail to release anything ever.

I remember the tweaks they did as part of the engine changes for Left 4 Dead 2, which included making the hand seemingly twice as big for no reason.

Yeah, L4D2 sucked. L4D1 was miles better, but even then it was easily frustrating and quickly became boring.

Modifié par OnlyShallow89, 14 janvier 2011 - 08:47 .

[Ob4rul3r]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

Inarborat wrote...
You've gotta be kidding me by saying Valve is more unreasonable than EA.  No large company is full of saints but you'd be hardpressed to find a game publisher/dev that's treated it's fans as well as Valve has.

They can only do it because their games sell so well, and it's really only the PC that gets that treatment. Team Fortress 2 on the 360 and PS3 (The PS3 got an abysmal port of the Orange Box, I believe) have been updated nowhere near as much as the PC version, and they're now practically two completely different games.

Counter-Strike and Team Fortress 2 are two of the most popular multiplayer PC shooters, with Half-Life 2 and its episodes being some of the most popular single player shooters. They're constantly selling, and they use the updates as a way to get more sales. Team Fortress 2 just got a massive update? Put it on sale for 33% off. Updated Half Life 2 and Episode 1 to have achievements? Put 'em on sale.

It's not like Valve do anything else, is it?

Errr ... wait, you get this wrong.

Valve indeed released tons of free content stuff for the PC for free. BUT they'd like to do the same for the XBox360 as well, it's MicroSoft that hated the idea of providing gamers with free content through the Live network (no money for them D: ! ). I read that somewhere a year ago, don't ask for a source plz ... you might find it by googleing it.

But on PC Valve indeed shows how outstanding Service for their Customers has to look like. Bringing in "They can only do it because their games sell so well" as an argument is laughable ... why does Valve Games sell so well? Because each one of them is entertaining AND because their Fans know they are not only cash cows to Valve, they care about them.


This is not a rant against EA, Ubisoft and the others, I just want to point out that if it comes to trust Valve is on top for a reason. This here is about that EA is the only publisher that has a weird publishing policy at Steam, and that we customers are suffering because they treat us badly by denying us the Signature Edition directly at Steam.

Modifié par Ob4rul3r, 14 janvier 2011 - 08:58 .

[Daewan]

You're thinking of Valve Time.

Oh, maybe that's why they missed the SE deadline.

[Moondoggie]

There are several ways you can get the signiture edition you really have no complaint. Heck if i want a game badly enough i'll buy a whole new console/PC rig/Graphics Card/Whatever just to get it. You're the only person being unreasonable here by refusing to just buy the signiture edition in another format like retail versions or download from another place.

[Ob4rul3r]

Moondoggie wrote...


And if Valve treats their fans so well why can they never bring a game out on time?

It's called "Valve Time", in fact I doubt they ever released ANYTHING in time, even patches are delayed frequently. Their "fans" such as me hate AND love them for it ... at least they are dependable in their undependabliness. xD

Well, better release a game completely polished and with almost no bugs than rushing it and bring games out at all costs just because you need the money out of it for the current fiscal quarter ...

Modifié par Ob4rul3r, 14 janvier 2011 - 08:58 .

[Ob4rul3r]

Moondoggie wrote...

There are several ways you can get the signiture edition you really have no complaint. Heck if i want a game badly enough i'll buy a whole new console/PC rig/Graphics Card/Whatever just to get it. You're the only person being unreasonable here by refusing to just buy the signiture edition in another format like retail versions or download from another place.

Mhhh ye ...

- Amazon (means: Retail) ..., did that as mentioned
- Impulse - "Not available in your region"
- EA Store - Friends told me there is as well a "Not available in your region" (didnt checked it myself, won't buy there anyways)
- Who else? -.-

[Moondoggie]

Ob4rul3r wrote...

Moondoggie wrote...


And if Valve treats their fans so well why can they never bring a game out on time?

It's called "Valve Time", in fact I doubt they ever released ANYTHING in time, even patches are delayed frequently. Their "fans" such as me hate AND love them for it ... at least they are dependable in their undependabliness. xD

Well, better release a game completely polished and with almost no bugs than rushing it and bring games out at all costs just because you need the money out of it for the current fiscal quarter ...

Can you name a Valve game that had zero bugs and never needed patching?

No matter how much "polish" you'll never find every bug first time around so releasing when you say you'll release  instead of delaying it for almost a year has no bearing on quality control.. At least when bugs need to be sorted patches can come out on time for EA's releases.

Modifié par Moondoggie, 14 janvier 2011 - 09:02 .

[Stanley Woo]

This is starting to get into platform wars territory, folks, so let's ratchet down the chest-beating and nose-to-nose staredowns by a notch or two. Thanks.

[vometia]

Moondoggie wrote...

Can you name a Valve game that had zero bugs and never needed patching?

You've resurrected what I'd assumed to be long dead memories of the awful stuttering bug in HL2: as much effort as Valve put into issuing official denials, it didn't make it go away...

I'm not a fan of Valve at the moment thanks to a Steam experience, but since Steam is both religion and politics I think I'll not go into it in any more detail.

Edit: hopefully this doesn't fall foul of Mr Woo's missive that appeared while I was writing it...

Modifié par vometia, 14 janvier 2011 - 09:06 .

[Loerwyn]

Ob4rul3r wrote...
Valve indeed released tons of free content stuff for the PC for free. BUT they'd like to do the same for the XBox360 as well, it's MicroSoft that hated the idea of providing gamers with free content through the Live network (no money for them D: ! ). I read that somewhere a year ago, don't ask for a source plz ... you might find it by googleing it.

Uh, Valve and MS don't get along. Valve haven't made the TF2 extras into DLC, they've not done anything about it. It's just this horrible thing floating around on the 360. And, again, if they're so supportive, why do they charge 560 points for their DLC? Why not a smaller fee? Huh? Again, it's all based on how you look at things.

Ob4rul3r wrote...
But on PC Valve indeed shows how outstanding Service for their Customers has to look like. Bringing in "They can only do it because their games sell so well" as an argument is laughable ... why does Valve Games sell so well? Because each one of them is entertaining AND because their Fans know they are not only cash cows to Valve, they care about them.

Valve games sell so well because of the name. Portal wouldn't have sold anywhere near as much if it wasn't a Valve game. It'd be floating around there with games like Twin Sector. Valve games sell so well because they market them aggressively on Steam, and because of the name. When you think Valve, you think Half-Life. 

Ob4rul3r wrote...
This is not a rant against EA, Ubisoft and the others, I just want to point out that if it comes to trust Valve is on top for a reason. This here is about that EA is the only publisher that has a weird publishing policy at Steam, and that we customers are suffering because they treat us badly by denying us the Signature Edition directly at Steam.

No, they're not. They're really not. Big Fish haven't got most of their games on Steam, either. And your claims as to being 'treated badly' are false - They've not reached through the screen and punched your granny, have they? They - in a fairly usual move - have elected not to offer their product on Steam for whatever reason (May even be Valve's fault, we don't know) and that's that. You've had the option to take your business elsewhere, and you've had a lot of notice about the lack of availability of that particular edition on Steam.

More the fool you if you're unwilling to compromise for the sake of auto-patching (Like it's gonna get that many patches anyway) and a pretty picture in your library.

Ob4rul3r wrote...
- Amazon (means: Retail) ..., did that as mentioned
- Impulse - "Not available in your region"
- EA Store - Friends told me there is as well a "Not available in your region" (didnt checked it myself, won't buy there anyways)
- Who else? -.-

GamersGate, Direct2Drive...

Modifié par OnlyShallow89, 14 janvier 2011 - 09:05 .

[Ob4rul3r]

Since I am not part of anyones developers team I can't tell you the exact reason of delays ... all I am saying is that Valves games never disappointed me. If they need more time to finish their titles - heck, just let'em have their time.



Sry for double posting btw.

[Ob4rul3r]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

No, they're not. They're really not. Big Fish haven't got most of their games on Steam, either. And your claims as to being 'treated badly' are false - They've not reached through the screen and punched your granny, have they? They - in a fairly usual move - have elected not to offer their product on Steam for whatever reason (May even be Valve's fault, we don't know) and that's that. You've had the option to take your business elsewhere, and you've had a lot of notice about the lack of availability of that particular edition on Steam.

I just checked the catalogue of Big Fish ... plz, don't make me laugh and compare them to companies like EA and their games.

And yes, I do feel badly treated if the almost only bigger store that didnt got delivered with something for obvious resons is the one I used to buy from.

More the fool you if you're unwilling to compromise for the sake of auto-patching (Like it's gonna get that many patches anyway) and a pretty picture in your library.

Fooled in which way? The Steam Catalogue is immense, there's no need so far to compromise - do you have to compromise at Amazon?! Steam is the biggest Shop of its kind, so isn't it a bit justified to ask wtf is wrong here?

GamersGate, Direct2Drive...

Direct2Drive appears to work, true.

But still: Why do I need to compromise anyways? Shouldn't it be my decision where I'd like to buy my game from?

[Ob4rul3r]

Well, my job here is done anyways: I wanted to whine a bit about Steam users being "differentely" treated by EA.



Got my personal solution for the lack of SE as Steam as well, so if there comes nothing new this little complaint thread is done so far. =)

[StormbringerGT]

I use impulse.

I also use Steam my Name on there is StormbringerGT.

I've used direct2drive as well.

I use Gamestop.

Iv'e bought from Gamersgate.

and sadly I buy from walmart occasionally though the store by me know nothing about video games.



I just don't see the benefit of tying yourself to one source of games. It seem very limiting to me. I understand customer loyalty and all that but having had worked at retail for a number of retails customer loyalty is earned by different methods by different retailers. To take your logic and apply it to everyones way of thinking doesn't make sense.



This won't be the first time Steam doesnt get something and it won't be the last. Some game companies love Steam and others don't. Steam heavily cuts into game profits made, when sold through them than when sold through traditional retailers. I'll look for a link to verify but last I checked steam make between 20 to 30 percent of the sale. Thats pretty high. However Steam does have a pretty large install base. So some companies may grumble but about it but see all the potential customers.



I don't mind steam. Even more now that I own a good computer. A while ago though Steam was punishing when playing games if your computer wasnt up to snuff as it runs in the background and each version seems to be less thin.



Going into the future if they want to maintain their edge in digital distribution they have a lot of things they need to consider.



Customer Service is terrible or non existent. Just google it. Steam definitely isn't the only company guilty of this. But if they want to maintain a healthy growing fan base this has to be addressed.



Steam does get some things right. Its trying to be a unified platform for multiplayer gaming. But to me that doesn't matter I play games online with a small percentage of friends. Most of them are on xbox live so I just turn to that. It simplies getting into a multiplayer game most of the time. Remember computer gaming online a scant 10 years ago? TCP/IPX/Serial/Direct connection. It was not easy for someone who wants to jump in and play and most companies solved this by themselves. Steam helps with this by showing what your friends are playing and jumping into their games easily and quickly. They are not the first company to do it. NOr do they do it best.



I was a PC gamer first and always will be. But I also love console gaming. They both have their ups and downs and I enjoy the best of both worlds.

[MrArmageddon]

Even though I could have purchased DA2 SE at a retailer, or from another Digital Distribution service, Steam is my platform of choice.  Customer service is top notch, I like the interface, and its just convenient to purchase games through them.  

I prefer not to buy retail, as I hate having to put in a game disc or wait for a no-cd crack to come out.  Digital is the way for me.  It was a nightmare to use the EA Digtail Download service with Battlefield 2142 and I will NEVER go that route again.  I have also used Impulse for Stardock exclisive titles like Galactiv Civ and Sins of a Solar Empire.  No gripes with Impluse, but still like Steam more as a platform for digital distribution.

I usually purchase the Special Edition to most games that come out and was disappointed not to see the DA2 SE hit Steam.  Also disappointed that the normal retail version that is currently on Steam, selling for $60, same price as the SE elsewhere but with less than 1/8 of the extra stuff.  I typically wouldn't gripe about $10 but it seems a slap in the face from EA to Steam users.

Either way, I have plenty of games to keep me busy (gotta love those Steam Christmas sales../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png, almost doubled my game library) until the "Ultimate Edition" of DA2 comes out on Steam, with all the DLC goodies included.   Until then, I won't bother with the ridiculous release practices used during these EA vs Valve disputes.

Hopefully this won't effect the SE release of Mass Effect 3 on Steam.  

[Loerwyn]

Ob4rul3r wrote...
I just checked the catalogue of Big Fish ... plz, don't make me laugh and compare them to companies like EA and their games.

Why? Because they're primarily hidden object games? Still the same point - Big Fish have a lot of their catalogue missing from Steam; You can't rely on them to get their games up.

Ob4rul3r wrote...
Fooled in which way? The Steam Catalogue is immense, there's no need so far to compromise - do you have to compromise at Amazon?! Steam is the biggest Shop of its kind, so isn't it a bit justified to ask wtf is wrong here?

Why, yes I do. If Amazon don't have a book I want, I go elsewhere. If they don't have a game I want, I go elsewhere again. But the important thing? I don't whine and moan about it. And Steam is only the biggest in terms of sales. Both Impulse and GamersGate give it a good run for its money in terms of available products. Direct2Drive has a much smaller catalogue but that's the second biggest digital distributor around.  

Ob4rul3r wrote...
But still: Why do I need to compromise anyways? Shouldn't it be my decision where I'd like to buy my game from?

Of course, but you should also accept that your decision isn't always the best one, and you should accept the limitations of your decision. You clearly have not.

[StormbringerGT]

Ob4rul3r wrote...

But still: Why do I need to compromise anyways? Shouldn't it be my decision where I'd like to buy my game from?

You don't have to but you have to. I'd would have loved buy my Home Theater system from Fry's which is close buy and where I buy 90% of my electronics. But I couldn't they didn't carry the model I wanted. I could have comprised and gotten a different model from the same company but I wanted that brand. They just didn't carry it.

So I bought it else where. Problem solved.

True I like fry's and I give them entirely too much of my money but in this case they didn't have what I wanted.

[StormbringerGT]

Inarborat wrote...

StormbringerGT wrote...

This won't be the first time Steam doesnt get something and it won't be the last. Some game companies love Steam and others don't. Steam heavily cuts into game profits made, when sold through them than when sold through traditional retailers. I'll look for a link to verify but last I checked steam make between 20 to 30 percent of the sale. Thats pretty high. However Steam does have a pretty large install base. So some companies may grumble but about it but see all the potential customers.

True, and much like DA2 if those games don't come to Steam, I won't be purchasing them.  As I said before, I usually don't have any other digital download options.  When there's no manufacturing costs or console maker fees to pay, shouldn't the digital distributer get a higher cut than Gamestop or Best Buy?  Gamestop, the lord of used game sales, being the place EA was, not specifically targeting, with Project $10.  Which turned into a $10 price hike on PC games.  Kidding about that last part, .  I'd be interested in what percentage of a sale the other digital services get.

2 months ahead...still can't figure that one out.  Didn't the Shale/Warden's Keep deal work out well the last time?  I know the real reason is fan service and the speculatory reason is milking the customer for that extra $7 character.  Just a weird situation and unfortunate how it turned out for some gamers.

I agree but then again with digital distribution, since the game companies don't have to pay for retail costs such as boxing, disc image prssing, manuals, shipping warehouse storage etc. Should the savings be available to us the customers?