92 réponses à ce sujet

[Moondoggie]

Ob4rul3r wrote...


Well, #1 smaller Developers/Publishers that spoke about their business relationship to Valve/Steam only had positive words about it (as an reaction to Randy Pitchford from Gearbox, that said in an Interview that Valves Steam would be bad for the PC as a platform and for smaller developers in special case - several of these smaller developers completely disagreed to what he said), #2 as said before it's mainly the EA catalogue at Steam that lacks several bigger titles and  that has mayor delays at pre-purchasing and completely lacks of preorder bonuses #3 well, EA ain't have a white vest anymore as many gamers will tell you .... I better don't write all that stuff done in one of their own forums. I hope you know what I mean.^^

To sum it up: It's more likely that all this happened because of one of EAs business decisions than one of Valves, but it's just a thought of course ... I could be completely wrong and Valve couldn't be as holy as I thought.

Maybe some do like working with Steam. Personally i'm not keen on Valves moves to monopolise the gaming industry  with their forcefull platform but that's just me.

If some publishers don't want their stuff on steam for whatever buisiness decision and you won't change that by griping, I hear now they are trying to force Steam on anyone who purchases Portal 2. I guess thats the next step for them "If you want our games you have to download our program and let it take over your computer"

[naughty99]

500 games???

Holy mother of ---!

Do you get any discount from Steam or VIP membership after buying so many games? Jeezus Christ!

I'm agreeing with you though on your OP. I would have paid extra to buy the collector's edition but didn't buy it because it wasn't available on Steam before Jan 11.

The version you can pre-order on Steam now has a few goodies, though. I'm OK with this version. 

Steam is a lot more convenient than the EA Store download manager. Plus what will they expect next, will we have to use a "2K Games Download Manager" a "Rockstar Download Manager" etc.? It would be like having to deal with every individual movie studio instead of renting movies from Netflix.  

Modifié par naughty99, 19 janvier 2011 - 06:25 .

[Fluffyfiend]

Moondoggie wrote...

Ob4rul3r wrote...


Well, #1 smaller Developers/Publishers that spoke about their business relationship to Valve/Steam only had positive words about it (as an reaction to Randy Pitchford from Gearbox, that said in an Interview that Valves Steam would be bad for the PC as a platform and for smaller developers in special case - several of these smaller developers completely disagreed to what he said), #2 as said before it's mainly the EA catalogue at Steam that lacks several bigger titles and  that has mayor delays at pre-purchasing and completely lacks of preorder bonuses #3 well, EA ain't have a white vest anymore as many gamers will tell you .... I better don't write all that stuff done in one of their own forums. I hope you know what I mean.^^

To sum it up: It's more likely that all this happened because of one of EAs business decisions than one of Valves, but it's just a thought of course ... I could be completely wrong and Valve couldn't be as holy as I thought.

Maybe some do like working with Steam. Personally i'm not keen on Valves moves to monopolise the gaming industry  with their forcefull platform but that's just me.

If some publishers don't want their stuff on steam for whatever buisiness decision and you won't change that by griping, I hear now they are trying to force Steam on anyone who purchases Portal 2. I guess thats the next step for them "If you want our games you have to download our program and let it take over your computer"

There is competition in the market, most notably Microsoft has tried to take slice of the pie with Games for Windows Market, there are numerous DD vendors who were used by EA for distribution as well.

Steam hardly has a monopoly on the market. Perhaps they have very loyal and dedicated customers but that does not a monopoly make.

Even if they bundle and package Portal 2 with Steam, you are not forced to use it with your other games. I have plenty of games I owned before I started using Steam which have no problems. It offers a option. You decide to use it or not.

Ultimately no one is going to force anyone else they are right or wrong in this debate. Either you like the service or you don't. As a consumer it is your money and not your voice which has the largest impact on a company. If you don't like or support Steam don't use it.

Btw you can turn Steam off so it doesn't run in the background. All it takes is right clicking the icon in task bar and clicking exit. In Settinges you can turn off the option to run on start up.

[Loerwyn]

If you want to 'truly' be a PC gamer and have access to all of the great games, you can't afford to not have Steam, as a number of major titles (Valve's games, Civilization V, New Vegas, Dawn of War II) require it.

I think Steamworks, and Steam-requirements, are an OK thing, but the problem with Steam is it's in danger of causing huge issues in the market. As in huge. It's currently the leader in terms of sales for Digital Distribution (With Direct2Drive coming second, I believe), but there needs to be an element of competition around.

If EA put all their titles on Steam, then that balance could shift towards Steam even more and that's just not needed. Steam isn't a monopoly - it's true - but it's in danger of getting too many sales and disrupting the market. If you look at offer prices on weekends or at sale time, you see exactly what I mean. Batman: Arkham Asylum went down to ~£8 on Steam once (Might have been less), whereas GamersGate were selling it for ~£15. I looked later and their price had dropped down to meet Steam's price. It happened with Alpha Protocol, too.

I've been watching sales and deals for a while now, and I've noticed a kinda recent trend with Paradox Interactive. GamersGate and Impulse had a brilliant offer on Majesty 2 and the first two expansions, but Steam got nothing. King Arthur is also on sale on GamersGate (Haven't checked Impulse), but not Steam.

I think publishers are wising up to the fact that competition is needed in the marketplace, because if there's no competition then everything falls apart. Amazon dominate in the UK because their competition can rarely keep up pace. The company that owns GAME and Gamestation (I think it's Gameplay) has the three biggest dedicated games companies in the UK, so there's no competition between them.

Is Steam good? Yeah, it can be. But it's in danger of becoming too good.

[Moondoggie]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

If you want to 'truly' be a PC gamer and have access to all of the great games, you can't afford to not have Steam, as a number of major titles (Valve's games, Civilization V, New Vegas, Dawn of War II) require it.
I think Steamworks, and Steam-requirements, are an OK thing, but the problem with Steam is it's in danger of causing huge issues in the market. As in huge. It's currently the leader in terms of sales for Digital Distribution (With Direct2Drive coming second, I believe), but there needs to be an element of competition around.
If EA put all their titles on Steam, then that balance could shift towards Steam even more and that's just not needed. Steam isn't a monopoly - it's true - but it's in danger of getting too many sales and disrupting the market. If you look at offer prices on weekends or at sale time, you see exactly what I mean. Batman: Arkham Asylum went down to ~£8 on Steam once (Might have been less), whereas GamersGate were selling it for ~£15. I looked later and their price had dropped down to meet Steam's price. It happened with Alpha Protocol, too.
I've been watching sales and deals for a while now, and I've noticed a kinda recent trend with Paradox Interactive. GamersGate and Impulse had a brilliant offer on Majesty 2 and the first two expansions, but Steam got nothing. King Arthur is also on sale on GamersGate (Haven't checked Impulse), but not Steam.
I think publishers are wising up to the fact that competition is needed in the marketplace, because if there's no competition then everything falls apart. Amazon dominate in the UK because their competition can rarely keep up pace. The company that owns GAME and Gamestation (I think it's Gameplay) has the three biggest dedicated games companies in the UK, so there's no competition between them.
Is Steam good? Yeah, it can be. But it's in danger of becoming too good.

I think this is the most sensible paragraph this entire thread has spawned.

[vometia]

I'm not sure if the way the UK's games market has been carved up is at all healthy looking at the way things are going.  Steam in particular are certainly acting like a monopoly these days if their customer service is anything to go by, and Game are at least as bad if on a less obvious scale; at least Amazon hasn't gone down that route yet, but the temptation must be there.

It does seem to have sparked some interest in the various consumer interest groups and some investigations into the way software is being sold seem to be taking off.  And not before time, either: the "no refunds, no guarantees" that the games industry in particular has become rather too used to are being very widely abused now.

It may be hard to gain impetus, however, thanks to both the usual forms of lobbyist and Steam's curiously defensive user base.  But hopefully it will.

As for me, I just regret not taking the concerns expressed about Steam much more seriously at the time instead of blithely wondering what the fuss was about.

[AshedMan]

Moondoggie wrote...
I hear now they are trying to force Steam on anyone who purchases Portal 2. I guess thats the next step for them "If you want our games you have to download our program and let it take over your computer"

You can't seriously believe Steam takes over your computer or has any negative impact on your computer whatsoever.

[Loerwyn]

Actually, AshedMan did bring something up.
Moondoggie, you make it sound as if Valve have never made Steam a requirement for their games before. Any PC game developed by Valve since Half Life 2 requires Steam to be installed, and that's never changed. Portal 2 requires it just as the others did.
However!, the PS3 version of Portal 2 comes with a form of Steamworks (NOT Steam) and a free PC/Mac copy of Portal 2.

Modifié par OnlyShallow89, 21 janvier 2011 - 03:17 .

[vometia]

AshedMan wrote...

You can't seriously believe Steam takes over your computer or has any negative impact on your computer whatsoever.

One thing it can do if you're not au fait with its configuration is to burn through your entire download quota in a matter of days if it decides to have an update frenzy.  Although it's not strictly speaking "taking over", it can be inconvenient and I'm sure plenty of people have found out the hard way.

Personally I mainly don't like it because of its "no refunds under any circumstances/transfers/selling-on/anything else we can think of" policy, which I rather feel tramples my consumer rights.

[Loerwyn]

vometia wrote...
One thing it can do if you're not au fait with its configuration is to burn through your entire download quota in a matter of days if it decides to have an update frenzy.  Although it's not strictly speaking "taking over", it can be inconvenient and I'm sure plenty of people have found out the hard way.

It's really only gonna happen if you have a lot of games installed, and they all somehow get huge updates at one time. In the first few months of a game's release, and if you have a few of 'em installed at once, it may happen, but mostly it won't.

vometia wrote...
Personally I mainly don't like it because of its "no refunds under any circumstances/transfers/selling-on/anything else we can think of" policy, which I rather feel tramples my consumer rights.

That annoyed me a bit. I wanted to get a refund for V:TM-B as it was, well, a complete mess. Nope, they said I had to go through tech support and 'work out my issues' with it.

I've gotten refunds on pre-purchases before, but even then it's like jumping through hoops.

[Moondoggie]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

Actually, AshedMan did bring something up.
Moondoggie, you make it sound as if Valve have never made Steam a requirement for their games before. Any PC game developed by Valve since Half Life 2 requires Steam to be installed, and that's never changed. Portal 2 requires it just as the others did.
However!, the PS3 version of Portal 2 comes with a form of Steamworks (NOT Steam) and a free PC/Mac copy of Portal 2.

Perhaps i took what they were saying the wrong way but the way they market the PS3 version makes it sound like it's forcing you to have steam one way or the other. I'm getting a little sick of this notion that when we buy games we'd like some program bundled with it that advertises games and decides to update games when it feels like it. Valve are not the only ones guilty of that of course theres the god awful GFWL which can be just as annoying.

Sometimes i let my personal opinions of Valve get in the way of seeking out correct information.

[Loerwyn]

Moondoggie wrote...
Perhaps i took what they were saying the wrong way but the way they market the PS3 version makes it sound like it's forcing you to have steam one way or the other. I'm getting a little sick of this notion that when we buy games we'd like some program bundled with it that advertises games and decides to update games when it feels like it. Valve are not the only ones guilty of that of course theres the god awful GFWL which can be just as annoying.

Sometimes i let my personal opinions of Valve get in the way of seeking out correct information.

Valve, EA, Microsoft, Big Fish and Stardock do it. I believe there'll be others, but I forget who.

The PS3 version doesn't require Steam - That makes little sense, but it does have some Steamworks-like functions on the PS3 (I believe, been a while since I read that story) and copies of the game do come with a free Steamplay (i.e. PC+Mac) copy of Portal 2. I don't know how it works, though, but you're certainly not required to use both.

[vometia]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

vometia wrote...
One thing it can do if you're not au fait with its configuration is to burn through your entire download quota in a matter of days if it decides to have an update frenzy.  Although it's not strictly speaking "taking over", it can be inconvenient and I'm sure plenty of people have found out the hard way.

It's really only gonna happen if you have a lot of games installed, and they all somehow get huge updates at one time. In the first few months of a game's release, and if you have a few of 'em installed at once, it may happen, but mostly it won't.

I think it didn't particularly help that I had a pitiful usage quota at the time, just 10 GB/month.  It wasn't exactly a bargain-basement package either; as well as taming Steam, I figured it was time to move ISP and now get 60 GB for the same price, though unmetred would be better.  "Like they did in the olden days".

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

vometia wrote...
Personally I mainly don't like it because of its "no refunds under any circumstances/transfers/selling-on/anything else we can think of" policy, which I rather feel tramples my consumer rights.

That annoyed me a bit. I wanted to get a refund for V:TM-B as it was, well, a complete mess. Nope, they said I had to go through tech support and 'work out my issues' with it.

I've gotten refunds on pre-purchases before, but even then it's like jumping through hoops.

I don't really understand why they operate such a hard-line policy as it just gives dissenters ammunition to use against them.  I didn't really object to Steam before I had to ask for a refund, but they've caused themselves quite a large "goodwill deficit" for the sake of just a fiver.  Still, a lesson I've learnt numerous times (and will get the hang of eventually!) is that you really get the measure of a company and its customer service only when things go wrong.

For the time being, Steam is a fact of life, like it or not; but when there's an alternative available, I'll take it.

Modifié par vometia, 21 janvier 2011 - 04:06 .

[TheMufflon]

vometia wrote...

One thing it can do if you're not au fait with its configuration is to burn through your entire download quota in a matter of days if it decides to have an update frenzy.  Although it's not strictly speaking "taking over", it can be inconvenient and I'm sure plenty of people have found out the hard way.

I don't see how giving you the option to automatically update your games constitutes "taking over your computer", no matter how loosely you speak.

Modifié par TheMufflon, 21 janvier 2011 - 04:17 .

[Morbo]

I just wish Steam would play nice with other digital distributors when it comes to mixing original games and addons/DLC.

[Loerwyn]

Morbo wrote...

I just wish Steam would play nice with other digital distributors when it comes to mixing original games and addons/DLC.

Eh... I sort of agree, but don't. I think the system works but it does shaft their own customers as they're not able to get the best deals - Or even the content some of time.

[AlexMBrennan]

v

[AshedMan]

From Wiki - Portal 2's PlayStation 3 release will include several Steamworks features, including cross-platform instant messaging, Steam Cloud for saved games, and the ability for PS3 owners to download Portal 2 from Steam (Windows or Mac) at no extra cost. Cross-platform play is also supported.



If I buy the PS3 version and link the game code to my PC's Steam, then I get it for free on my PC. I can also play Portal 2 cooperatively with PS3 players and PC/Mac players. Valve is very generous and brilliant!