150 réponses à ce sujet

[SSV Enterprise]

...your point's still wandering back at the station without you.

[Whereto]

I think you are forgetting a few things. The likely hood of having a Biotic as strong as Samara or jack in the alliance or even Cerberus is very very low. As you may of realized powerful biotic are rare in humans and if there are ones like Jack, they will likely be similar to jacks mental state. So that rules out the "best" biotic's being in Cerberus or the alliance.

Thane is a drell, trained from birth to kill, he probably is so far superior to humans or most military assassins in this line of work, that it was pointless going any where else. There is also the fact that he has heaps of experience.

Mordin is probably one of the greatest scientist in the galaxy and has fighting capabilities, those traits are very are together, i doubt that you would find many with his abilities.



I would also like to point out that just because you have formal military training, doesnt mean you are the best at fighting.



If you think anyone doesnt fit into the "best" or at least close allies of Shepard's, name them and i'll give a reason

[Eduadinho]

Seriously Eddo can you please stop your baseless argument you will listen to no opinion but your own. Shepard and his allies are the best.

Also no Shepard is not just a normal human he is a biotic so get your facts correct. You say that any good guys would win because that is what generally happens in books, movies and games so your logic doesn't stand up. If you are so concerned with the professionalism of the group but then say anyone can win why would it matter. They are the best the game says so that is final goodbye!!!

[Eddo36]

Whereto wrote...

I think you are forgetting a few things. The likely hood of having a Biotic as strong as Samara or jack in the alliance or even Cerberus is very very low. As you may of realized powerful biotic are rare in humans and if there are ones like Jack, they will likely be similar to jacks mental state. So that rules out the "best" biotic's being in Cerberus or the alliance.
Thane is a drell, trained from birth to kill, he probably is so far superior to humans or most military assassins in this line of work, that it was pointless going any where else. There is also the fact that he has heaps of experience.
Mordin is probably one of the greatest scientist in the galaxy and has fighting capabilities, those traits are very are together, i doubt that you would find many with his abilities.

I would also like to point out that just because you have formal military training, doesnt mean you are the best at fighting.

If you think anyone doesnt fit into the "best" or at least close allies of Shepard's, name them and i'll give a reason

What you're not taking into account is that skill alone is not a deciding factor of a great team. Discipline is needed. So is unit cohesion. Like in a sports team, if some new player is the most skillful at that sport but is a total a-hole, the team is better off without him. Skill only goes so far.

Modifié par Eddo36, 16 janvier 2011 - 09:16 .

[Gleym]

Last I knew Shepard was a cyborg, considering that he can now lift and throw massive beams of metal that no human could ever raise, not to mention all of the metalwork used in rebuilding his body.

[Eduadinho]

Hahaha those beams actually have to be made out of plywood. Joker and his brittle bones can move those beams.

[Whereto]

Eddo36 wrote...

Whereto wrote...

I think you are forgetting a few things. The likely hood of having a Biotic as strong as Samara or jack in the alliance or even Cerberus is very very low. As you may of realized powerful biotic are rare in humans and if there are ones like Jack, they will likely be similar to jacks mental state. So that rules out the "best" biotic's being in Cerberus or the alliance.
Thane is a drell, trained from birth to kill, he probably is so far superior to humans or most military assassins in this line of work, that it was pointless going any where else. There is also the fact that he has heaps of experience.
Mordin is probably one of the greatest scientist in the galaxy and has fighting capabilities, those traits are very are together, i doubt that you would find many with his abilities.

I would also like to point out that just because you have formal military training, doesnt mean you are the best at fighting.

If you think anyone doesnt fit into the "best" or at least close allies of Shepard's, name them and i'll give a reason

What you're not taking into account is that skill alone is not a deciding factor of a great team. Discipline is needed. So is unit cohesion. Skill only goes so far.

Your not taking on your run of the mill enemy are you? sure your average solider is good for your normal fight but this isnt normal. You are meant to be taking on the single hardest enemy in the galaxy currently(reapers arent here yet) Iets put it this way, would you rather 12 ordinary/discipline merc's and maybe some soliders's or would you take a more skilled team of 12. The likely hood of you getting anyone close to the skill of the current team is very low, as most will be in military service that are disciplined. Now tell me how you propose to get armed service men(women), if the threat you are talking about is considered a myth and you work for a enemy of the council. I doubt any military would even talk to you let alone allow you to take a powerful person from their ranks. 

I'll even put a comparison out for you. You dont make it into a special forces team because your a well trained, disciplined solider. You make it because you have something others dont-skill in a certain area. If you look at shepard's crew i would say all of them have something most and all of them are willing to follow orders. Now i dont know how you define discipline, but i would say that following orders and carrying them out in the way they are ordered, shows discipline. You dont have to be a solider or receive formal military training, to show discipline.

[Eddo36]

Gleym wrote...

Last I knew Shepard was a cyborg, considering that he can now lift and throw massive beams of metal that no human could ever raise, not to mention all of the metalwork used in rebuilding his body.

It could be Combat Exoskeleton armor upgrade.

[Eddo36]

Whereto wrote...

Eddo36 wrote...

Whereto wrote...

I think you are forgetting a few things. The likely hood of having a Biotic as strong as Samara or jack in the alliance or even Cerberus is very very low. As you may of realized powerful biotic are rare in humans and if there are ones like Jack, they will likely be similar to jacks mental state. So that rules out the "best" biotic's being in Cerberus or the alliance.
Thane is a drell, trained from birth to kill, he probably is so far superior to humans or most military assassins in this line of work, that it was pointless going any where else. There is also the fact that he has heaps of experience.
Mordin is probably one of the greatest scientist in the galaxy and has fighting capabilities, those traits are very are together, i doubt that you would find many with his abilities.

I would also like to point out that just because you have formal military training, doesnt mean you are the best at fighting.

If you think anyone doesnt fit into the "best" or at least close allies of Shepard's, name them and i'll give a reason

What you're not taking into account is that skill alone is not a deciding factor of a great team. Discipline is needed. So is unit cohesion. Skill only goes so far.

Your not taking on your run of the mill enemy are you? sure your average solider is good for your normal fight but this isnt normal. You are meant to be taking on the single hardest enemy in the galaxy currently(reapers arent here yet) Iets put it this way, would you rather 12 ordinary/discipline merc's and maybe some soliders's or would you take a more skilled team of 12. The likely hood of you getting anyone close to the skill of the current team is very low, as most will be in military service that are disciplined. Now tell me how you propose to get armed service men(women), if the threat you are talking about is considered a myth and you work for a enemy of the council. I doubt any military would even talk to you let alone allow you to take a powerful person from their ranks. 

I'll even put a comparison out for you. You dont make it into a special forces team because your a well trained, disciplined solider. You make it because you have something others dont-skill in a certain area. If you look at shepard's crew i would say all of them have something most and all of them are willing to follow orders. Now i dont know how you define discipline, but i would say that following orders and carrying them out in the way they are ordered, shows discipline. You dont have to be a solider or receive formal military training, to show discipline.

Actually, reliability is more important than skill. Loose cannons aren't good for any team. I would take the 12 ordinary soldiers who are well-trained and have skills that are perhaps 95% as good as the best undisciplined outsiders. And you make it past boot camp by being disciplined, which is not only a prerequisite for ordinary soldiering, but special forces as well. So Special Forces are disciplined. And how else can you make it into a SF team other than being disciplined and well-trained? If someone has something you don't in a skill area, you can always be trained. If you lack in a physical way, you can excercise and improve to it. It takes discipline and motivation and anything is possible.

[Eddo36]

As I added. Like in a sports team, if some new player is the most skillful at that sport but is a total a-hole, the team is better off without him. Skill only goes so far.

[Whereto]

Stuff quoting...

Ok if you want disciplined solider's. How do you propose to get those soldiers in mass effect 2? Like i said before, you are with Cerberus, most good soliders's would be in the military and you would have no chance of getting them. Remember you dont have forever to collect them... Now go off and get the best you can get which are disciplined to military standards, extremely skillful, willing to die and most of all recruit able. Good luck cause you have no chance.

Finally i would like to point out something you said "Actually, reliability is more important than skill." Point out a character that doesnt show their reliability? Sure jacks a little shaky, but she does as she is told even in the fight later game with a such and such person. Also you may have missed a key point. These are the best of the best, they are not 5% better than most at your disposal. In the case of Samara she is easily able to take on 5 Eclipse at once. That isnt normal... You arent going to find people like her to readily in service- you will have access to at least. Discipline will only last you so far as if you havent got the skill you will end up dead. Collectors are extremely hard to kill on their own and if you dont have enough skill and no matter the discipline you will be killed

Modifié par Whereto, 16 janvier 2011 - 09:48 .

[Eddo36]

Well you have to understand that a major portion of Cerberus are former Alliance (or still in Alliance infact). That's to answer the first.



And Jack is unreliable as unreliable can be. Non-military strangers are generally less reliable than military. Samara is too clean. A soldier cannot afford to be too clean or too dirty.

[Eduadinho]

Okay here is the deal they would be considered better by far. Like an ordinary soldier might be a quarter as good as the troops you have. Also just because people are trained doesn't mean they are better straight away. Spartacus proved this and to some degree the American revolution. Also all groups have to start from some point Shepard is a great leader so under his (or her) guidance the team they create can work properly.

One final thing (i am getting bloody tired of this argument) it is get this.... NOT REAL LIFE BIOTICS DONT EXIST WE HAVE NEVER COME INTO CONTACT WITH ALIENS SO WE HAVE NO TRUE COMPARISON.

[Eddo36]

Actually I'm sure ordinary soldiers are 90-95% as good as the best. Being the best isn't much better than some qualified and trained ordinary person.

And anyone can be augmented with upgrades to make themselves better. Weaker biotics? Use a stronger bio-amp. Weaker tech skill? Use stronger omni-tool. Not as strong as a krogan? Get combat exoskeleton armor upgrade. Can't take too much damage as others? Use stronger shields. Bad aim? Auto-targeting in weapons. etc.

Modifié par Eddo36, 16 janvier 2011 - 09:59 .

[Whereto]

Cerberus isnt that big and rarely accept aliens especially ones that work for other species military . You arent going to find everyone you need in Cerberus... Biotics as powerful as Samara or Jack are going to be hard to find in humans.



Think about what you just said in your 2nd paragraph...you still haven't told me how you propose to convince another species in active military service to go AWOL for a black listed, anti alien corporation(for lack of a better word). Consider it for a second, try to tell a General or Superior, you work for Cerberus a enemy of the council and want to take on what is considered to be a myth- the collectors. How would they feel about you taking their very best from their ranks. May i remind you that you have been told by the council, if you have our specter status reinstated, you must keep inside the terminus systems. By doing any of this you have broken the councils conditions and also damaged your very damaged relationship with them, even further

[Eddo36]

You do realize that Cerberus has moles in very high places in the Alliance and other organizations. Read the books?

[Mister Mida]

If we go back into official service of the Council or the Alliance there's propably gonna be a bigger presence of military discipline on our ship. Cerberus is considered a private organization so rules like those of fraternazation aren't present.

[Eddo36]

Mister Mida wrote...

If we go back into official service of the Council or the Alliance there's propably gonna be a bigger presence of military discipline on our ship. Cerberus is considered a private organization so rules like those of fraternazation aren't present.

Yes but discipline isn't any less important.

[Whereto]

Having moles doesnt mean you will get service men... They aren't that stupid to give you something they need

[General9999]

jack is trained professional dont make me laugh she has no clothes i dont know how she survives in space and how manages to absorb all shots(likely an invisible kevlar) others are not so bad but the armor thing for squad is just ridicilous everyone wears not armor but civilian everyday clothes only shepard and grunt have real armor garrus armor was obliterated at first but then bioware decided it was time to fix it couldnt be more obivious probably bioware thought everyone looks better with broken armor like legion and garrus and your team is following orders they do but threaten you to kill you or anything similiar example samara says she will kill you after you finish the mission if you do something wrong why would i want something like that on my team to threaten commander in the military she would be executed right away or sent to prison

[SSV Enterprise]

And Eddo STILL has not coughed up a SINGLE example of a standard, disciplined Alliance soldier who is as good as Shepard's team.

Modifié par SSV Enterprise, 16 janvier 2011 - 05:18 .

[Eddo36]

Due to lack of named personnel...

[Eduadinho]

well then that means you can't make that claim. your point is moot. seriously unless you actually consider other peoples views which are the collective. realise the game isn't real life so things can have different outcomes eg one biotic can kill a whole room full of people. I will no longer bother with trying to reason with you otherwise and i suggest other people stop responding as well. he clearly only wants his own opinion to be heard and to tell a group of people that don't really care or know he is wrong that he thinks he is right.

if your opinion was true there would be no problem and no need for the game.

Modifié par Eduadinho, 16 janvier 2011 - 07:00 .

[Eddo36]

Okay due to lack of interaction with unnamed personnel. Is that a better way of putting it?

[Lotion Soronarr]

InvaderErl wrote...

I think the overall weakness of the ME1 team, at least compared to other Bioware parties, came from the fact that everyone was so disciplined and yes, professional

Yes. The horror of having professional and serious pople fihgitng for hte fate of the galaxy. Better leave that to some undisciplined dregs with psichological issues.

Normal == boring

Just look at Jacob/Ashley/Kaidan

Loved all 3 of them.

You forget - given that your whole team was a friggin zoo, the normal ones are the ones standing out.