190 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

toli_man wrote...
because the illustrated point of a preorder was supposedly to show brand loyalty, but now, it's loyal to buy the game from obscure/restricted retailers to get a few game-changing trinkets.

Amazon is obscure?

[KingDan97]

msp wrote...

KingDan97 Oh to be pigheaded and ignore the fact that every major retailer offered the SE....

Honestly,
you're just angry that you would've had to buy through another digital
retailer or, god forbid buy a physical copy to be shipped to your house.

Except Steam. Chances are, EA and Steam couldn't come to agreement as to how divide up my $60; or EA got a sweet deal from every other "major retailer" by agreeing to specifically lock Steam out of the SE deal. There is nothing to be angry about here - it's just business. It's not like it was difficult to understand what's going on and make my purchasing decisions accordingly. Ultimate Edition in a year or so for me. Cheaper, and with a lot more content.

Edit: quote

Except you're not considering what a specific scenario this is. No game dev has ever had a timed preorder, and Steam likely wasn't expecting one. Hell you can still buy the Digital Deluxe version of ME2 on Steam because because if you couldn't then you wouldn't be able to redownload it if you uninstalled it. It's not EA's fault so far as you know because given this rare set of circumstances that may not have been a hindrance to the other digital providers.

Like I said before, the only known game to be removed from Steam's library but still be accessible(albeit through slightly backhanded methods) doesn't even show up on your library if you uninstall it. You need to enter a special URL to even get to the download and even then to redownload it you need to go back to the hidden URL. I'd say that makes it a pretty safe bet that Steam doesn't have the infrastructure in place to remove the ability to have certain games only available to certain people.

[ClayMeow]

Destructo-Bot wrote...

Except
you're not considering what a specific scenario this is. No game dev
has ever had a timed preorder, and Steam likely wasn't expecting one.
Hell you can still buy the Digital Deluxe version of ME2 on Steam
because because if you couldn't then you wouldn't be able to redownload
it if you uninstalled it. It's not EA's fault so far as you know because
given this rare set of circumstances that may not have been a hindrance
to the other digital providers.

Like I said before, the only
known game to be removed from Steam's library but still be
accessible(albeit through slightly backhanded methods) doesn't even show
up on your library if you uninstall it. You need to enter a special URL
to even get to the download and even then to redownload it you need to
go back to the hidden URL. I'd say that makes it a pretty safe bet that
Steam doesn't have the infrastructure in place to remove the ability to
have certain games only available to certain people.

Aside from the fact that there shouldn't have been a limited-time promotion to begin with, Valve could easily get around the issue by changing pricing. Charge $60 until the promotion ends, and then up it to $70. Or, if you want to "remove it" completely, up it to something stupid like $100. In either case, after the promotion ends, a customer would more likely spend the $60 on the game and then the $7 on the DLC than buy an overpriced SE. There are a lot of dumb people in the world, sure, but I'm sure Steam/EA/Bioware would all be fine with someone being stupid and buying the content for more than it's worth.

[ClayMeow]

AngelicMachinery wrote...

KingDan97 wrote...
The only money they get in advance is from those who go into a store and put down the cash there.

And this is why it wasn't released on steam,  a company is free to market their product as they see fit and to maximize their profit.  Sorry steam guys,  but this is the way the world works sometimes.

Um, no. The only way EA/Bioware receives any pre-order money is if someone buys from the EA Store or Bioware Store. If someone buys retail, the retailer is keeping all that pre-order money, they simply tell EA how many games were pre-ordered so EA knows how many to ship once the game is launched. Even so, most, if not all retailers will only collect a portion of the money and not charge the remaining amount until you receive the game.

Pre-orders are NOT a form of investment, that's what lifetime subscriptions are for MMOs. Pre-orders simply provide companies (semi)guaranteed sales, which makes forecasting easier, as long as helps the marketing department known if/when to spend their money.

[Destructo-Bot]

KingDan97 wrote...

msp wrote...

KingDan97 Oh to be pigheaded and ignore the fact that every major retailer offered the SE....

Honestly,
you're just angry that you would've had to buy through another digital
retailer or, god forbid buy a physical copy to be shipped to your house.

Except Steam. Chances are, EA and Steam couldn't come to agreement as to how divide up my $60; or EA got a sweet deal from every other "major retailer" by agreeing to specifically lock Steam out of the SE deal. There is nothing to be angry about here - it's just business. It's not like it was difficult to understand what's going on and make my purchasing decisions accordingly. Ultimate Edition in a year or so for me. Cheaper, and with a lot more content.

Edit: quote

Except you're not considering what a specific scenario this is. No game dev has ever had a timed preorder, and Steam likely wasn't expecting one. Hell you can still buy the Digital Deluxe version of ME2 on Steam because because if you couldn't then you wouldn't be able to redownload it if you uninstalled it. It's not EA's fault so far as you know because given this rare set of circumstances that may not have been a hindrance to the other digital providers.

Like I said before, the only known game to be removed from Steam's library but still be accessible(albeit through slightly backhanded methods) doesn't even show up on your library if you uninstall it. You need to enter a special URL to even get to the download and even then to redownload it you need to go back to the hidden URL. I'd say that makes it a pretty safe bet that Steam doesn't have the infrastructure in place to remove the ability to have certain games only available to certain people.

You pre-order on Steam and get they give you a key right away. Keys activated on the Bioware Social site before 1/11/11 get to download the Signature Edition DLC pieces for free when the game is released. Keys activated after then do not. Steam gives the same version to everyone, and pre-order DLC is downloaded via the Bioware social site, just like has been done so far.

If they wanted to resolve it, it could have been resolved. They chose not to, I chose not to buy the game. I chose to let them know it, but some people feel that Bioware getting any negative feedback is a slight to them personally and choose to prod customers who are already unhappy with the situation. Taking an annoyed customer and letting your other customers berate them for being annoyed is not likely to engender further good will.

That's how it is.

[Cuthlan]

Destructo-Bot wrote...


If they wanted to resolve it, it could have been resolved. They chose not to, I chose not to buy the game. I chose to let them know it, but some people feel that Bioware getting any negative feedback is a slight to them personally and choose to prod customers who are already unhappy with the situation. Taking an annoyed customer and letting your other customers berate them for being annoyed is not likely to engender further good will.

That's how it is.

I can't speak for everyone, but when people are blaming Bioware and saying they aren't buying Dragon Age over something that they had nothing to do with, when in fact the situation was between EA and Valve, it upsets ME because I want to see the Dragon Age franchise be successful because I enjoy this type of game and want to see it remain profitable so it continues to be produced.

So yes, it is personal to me.

[In Exile]

Destructo-Bot wrote...
You pre-order on Steam and get they give you a key right away. Keys activated on the Bioware Social site before 1/11/11 get to download the Signature Edition DLC pieces for free when the game is released. Keys activated after then do not. Steam gives the same version to everyone, and pre-order DLC is downloaded via the Bioware social site, just like has been done so far.

So what if I pre-ordered before the 11th but didn't read or pay attention to or just plain forgot to active the key? Is it my fault. Your solution is essentially the same thing - the consumer is still responsible for accesing the free content prior to a particular deadline.

[Bryy_Miller]

It's personal to you, yes, but it's not a personal stab AT YOU, the customer. There is the difference.

[KingDan97]

Destructo-Bot wrote...

You pre-order on Steam and get they give you a key right away. Keys activated on the Bioware Social site before 1/11/11 get to download the Signature Edition DLC pieces for free when the game is released. Keys activated after then do not. Steam gives the same version to everyone, and pre-order DLC is downloaded via the Bioware social site, just like has been done so far.

If they wanted to resolve it, it could have been resolved. They chose not to, I chose not to buy the game. I chose to let them know it, but some people feel that Bioware getting any negative feedback is a slight to them personally and choose to prod customers who are already unhappy with the situation. Taking an annoyed customer and letting your other customers berate them for being annoyed is not likely to engender further good will.

That's how it is.

Again, you don't know how easy that is, to switch on registration of a game that won't be finished for months can easily mean that linked features that DA:O provided could change significantly before launch. You're raging about something that may have been a technical limitation. Which given the multitude of other sources via which you could've gotten a copy yet instead you choose to pettily hold your breath and stomp your feet because Bioware didn't buy you the cereal you want.

You claim that I am taking this as a personal affront because of the fact I am looking for alternate, and more likely situations then "Because Bioware has been indoctrinated by the rEApers!" or that EA has been making back room deals merely to ****** off consumers.

You seem to be the one taking it personally because despite evidence to the contrary, you claim to have been provided no alternate source by which you could purchase the game you claim to want, at the very least you want it badly enough to begin making paranoid superstitions about exactly how EA has decided to screw you and everyone else who decided not to purchase the SE before the deadline, despite the fact that you had every opportunity to buy it.

Modifié par KingDan97, 16 janvier 2011 - 12:39 .

[Destructo-Bot]

Your hyperbole is strong. I'm neither raging nor stamping my feet. You seem to be the one getting worked up. You walzted into a thread concerning Steam and the Signature edition... what do you think is going to be discussed here?


If you want to rail against Steam supporters, why do it in their thread? I don't go into Leliana positive threads and tell everyone there how poor their choice of companion is. That would be trolling. Consider the parallels. Why not let the Steam "fanboys" vent here instead of provoking them. The folks at Bioware can handle the criticizm all by themselves, I'm certain of that.

If you want to support Bioware, why not shoot all the Devs a PM about how awesome their games are instead of stirring up the hornets nest and keeping issues like this alive. Actually, check that! Please... KEEP POSTING! More hyperbole, more personal attacks!

It boils down to this: Many of Bioware's FANS and CUSTOMERS wanted to see the Signature Edition on Steam. Bioware failed to deliver. They don't have to do anything, but feedback is always relevant. You are attempting to shout down customers who are giving feedback that may help Bioware tune their procedures in the future to avoid nasty stains like this one. I say you are the one hurting the very company you seem to be trying to hard to protect, even though they don't need it.

Modifié par Destructo-Bot, 16 janvier 2011 - 03:02 .

[Bryy_Miller]

BioWare is not the distributor. So giving them feedback on which platform gets what is only going to go so far.

[Erode_The_Soul]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

BioWare is not the distributor. So giving them feedback on which platform gets what is only going to go so far.

They may not be able to do anything directly, but I doubt once they finish the game, they just hand it off to someone and hope for the best. I would assume they have some sort of contact with their distributor, some sort of say in who gets what, even if it's not an ultimate decision. If they can, at some point in the future, let whoever makes the ultimate decision know that Steam users were disappointed by this move and would appreciate being included the next time something like this SE pops up, then it's something, at the very least.

[In Exile]

Erode_The_Soul wrote...
They may not be able to do anything directly, but I doubt once they finish the game, they just hand it off to someone and hope for the best. I would assume they have some sort of contact with their distributor, some sort of say in who gets what, even if it's not an ultimate decision.

Bioware is an EA subsidiary now. I would bet there is no such department anymore. Essentially, ''Bioware'' is really just EA, and this is a case of EA distributing their own games via their own distribution network.

[Erode_The_Soul]

In Exile wrote...

Erode_The_Soul wrote...
They may not be able to do anything directly, but I doubt once they finish the game, they just hand it off to someone and hope for the best. I would assume they have some sort of contact with their distributor, some sort of say in who gets what, even if it's not an ultimate decision.

Bioware is an EA subsidiary now. I would bet there is no such department anymore. Essentially, ''Bioware'' is really just EA, and this is a case of EA distributing their own games via their own distribution network.

Well, maybe "Bioware" can let "EA" know we're disappointed? I don't know, to be honest. It just seems like sitting in silent disappointment does no one any good. The deal fell through this time, but if everyone were to just sit back and say "Eh, I'm sure they won't forget us next time" I feel like that would be even worse.

The way I look at it, it certainly can't hurt anything to let Bioware know that this move was disappointing and that we'd appreciate it if Steam were included next go around. Maybe they can't do anything and we're actually just having a lively debate with a brick wall at this point, but I feel a lot better knowing that the bricks that comprise that wall are aware of my feelings about this whole kerfuffle, even if nothing comes of it. 

Modifié par Erode_The_Soul, 16 janvier 2011 - 04:22 .

[ErichHartmann]

If only BioWare had the power of Blizzard. Activision could never force Blizzard to distribute their games on Steam.  What I'm saying is BioWare needs to have more control over this.  The Signature Edition should be available on Steam.   

Modifié par ErichHartmann, 16 janvier 2011 - 04:26 .

[KingDan97]

Destructo-Bot wrote...

Your hyperbole is strong. I'm neither raging nor stamping my feet. You seem to be the one getting worked up. You walzted into a thread concerning Steam and the Signature edition... what do you think is going to be discussed here?


If you want to rail against Steam supporters, why do it in their thread? I don't go into Leliana positive threads and tell everyone there how poor their choice of companion is. That would be trolling. Consider the parallels. Why not let the Steam "fanboys" vent here instead of provoking them. The folks at Bioware can handle the criticizm all by themselves, I'm certain of that.

If you want to support Bioware, why not shoot all the Devs a PM about how awesome their games are instead of stirring up the hornets nest and keeping issues like this alive. Actually, check that! Please... KEEP POSTING! More hyperbole, more personal attacks!

It boils down to this: Many of Bioware's FANS and CUSTOMERS wanted to see the Signature Edition on Steam. Bioware failed to deliver. They don't have to do anything, but feedback is always relevant. You are attempting to shout down customers who are giving feedback that may help Bioware tune their procedures in the future to avoid nasty stains like this one. I say you are the one hurting the very company you seem to be trying to hard to protect, even though they don't need it.

I'm not "railing" against Steam supporters, I understand why they are upset, but most of the anger in this thread assumes that Bioware or EA or even Valve decided they weren't going to make it available because of some nefarious scheme. My original post merely postulated a rational explanation, you gave an alternate scenario and I am merely trying to get across that the infrastructure likely isn't even in place for such a scenario.

And how is it that every time someone has a something positive or logical to say about a situation they are somehow "hurting" the image of Bioware? Do you think the world at large cares they couldn't buy it off Steam? I can guarantee you they don't. There may be a small few other people on the planet outside of these forums that care enough about Steam to let the lack of a game being there ruin their day.

You are entitled to your opinion but this thread makes claims about the nature of the situation, and different scenarios through which they could have "easily" made it available that don't consider the potential limitations on the infrastructures they are making claims about.

ErichHartmann wrote...

If only BioWare had the power of Blizzard. Activision could never force Blizzard to distribute their games on Steam.  What I'm saying is BioWare needs to have more control over this.  The Signature Edition should be available on Steam.   

I understand and agree with the sentiment, but Blizzard was a merger between Activision and Vivendi, Bioware was purchased.

Erode_The_Soul wrote...

Well, maybe "Bioware" can let "EA" know we're disappointed? I don't know, to be honest. It just seems like sitting in silent disappointment does no one any good. The deal fell through this time, but if everyone were to just sit back and say "Eh, I'm sure they won't forget us next time" I feel like that would be even worse. 

The way I look at it, it certainly can't hurt anything to let Bioware know that this move was disappointing and that we'd appreciate it if Steam were included next go around. Maybe they can't do anything and we're actually just having a lively debate with a brick wall at this point, but I feel a lot better knowing that the bricks that comprise that wall are aware of my feelings about this whole kerfuffle, even if nothing comes of it.  [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

This is a sentiment I completely respect, you are disappointed, I understand that and I get entirely what you're saying because you hope you can make a change. You understand that maybe nothing can be done to change this and you're not throwing blame on EA or Bioware.

You sir, get a ninja.

[msp]

No sane company is looking to deliberately ****** off their customers, EA and Valve included. I simply think it's likely that EA made more by funneling traffic to their own store and to preferred retailers than by selling DA2 on Steam for the same time period. Valve also doesn't look to have missed out - DA2 already made their top seller list. It's possible that "technical limitations" prevented SE from being available through Steam, but it seems more likely that there just wasn't a strong incentive for EA and Valve to come to an agreement.



That said, I do not in the least feel that EA or Valve are out to "screw me". They want to sell games and I want to buy them. If I had to pick a word for how I feel, jaded seems about right. I'm tired of walking into carefully laid DRM minefields, sorting out retailers with their exclusive and not-so-exclusive content, endless streams of DLC, points to currency conversions, mandatory account registrations, etc. etc. It just seems easier to wait for everything to become available as one convenient cheap package and buy it from whoever has the fewest strings attached.

[Destructo-Bot]

I'm right there with you on that sentiment msp.

[nabokovfan87]

Hanz54321 wrote...

Destructo-Bot wrote...
 The signature edition being time limited for only part of the pre-order period makes very little logical sense.

It makes perfect logical sense.  It's based on the principle of investment and quarterly interest.

If you pre-order 3 months ahead of release, EA can take your money, invest it, and profit a percentage before you even receive your copy of the game.

If you pre-order 2 days ahead of release there is no time for interest to acrue and thus no profit in it for EA.

Economics.

A pre-order in most places means that for online stuff (amazon for instance) you are not charged until the order ships, in other places it is a small price, 5 dollars at the most.  EA doesn't give a hoot whether you pre-order now the day after of 10 years prior (duke nukem reference, hah!), the cost of development is spent and everyone knows there is enough madden, mass effect, and whatever other "sucesses" you want to mention out there to support development of 100 more games.  The money is spent, it is all just about getting more.

As I have said 100 times before, Bioware, give me some way to buy it and I will, If I have to pay 20 bucks for a deluxe edition that it the same thing then so be it, but not allowing me to do so is bull.

[Dave of Canada]

nabokovfan87 wrote...

As I have said 100 times before, Bioware, give me some way to buy it and I will, If I have to pay 20 bucks for a deluxe edition that it the same thing then so be it, but not allowing me to do so is bull.

You can buy the DLC and Soundtrack for roughly 20$.

[muse108]

Extremely disapointed to not see the se on steam, steam is my main and only way that I buy games these days, to actually make me go and buy a box from a store I dislike is extremely annoying. Didnt like EA before like them even less now for what can only be construed as them biting their thumbs at us.

[wulfsturm]

muse108 wrote...

Extremely disapointed to not see the se on steam, steam is my main and only way that I buy games these days, to actually make me go and buy a box from a store I dislike is extremely annoying. Didnt like EA before like them even less now for what can only be construed as them biting their thumbs at us.

Yes, its all EA's fault - and not Steam's - for not accepting the SE on their terms.

Oh.

Wait.

[Dave of Canada]

muse108 wrote...

Extremely disapointed to not see the se on steam, steam is my main and only way that I buy games these days, to actually make me go and buy a box from a store I dislike is extremely annoying. Didnt like EA before like them even less now for what can only be construed as them biting their thumbs at us.

They personally wanted to insult you by making you purchase a game from somewhere else, you should challenge their honor and have them duel you at sunrise.