98 réponses à ce sujet

[Omnicrat]

In Exile wrote...

Omnicrat wrote...

Do we
really know Quarian life spans?  Couldn't they be 60 years on a good
day?  So, if they do have a short life-span, figuring a generation once
every 20 years or so... they have been in space for around 15
generations.  Thats enough to have afew hundred deffective immune
systems in the first generation trickle down to the rest by now.

You can't just knock out the immune system like that.
ME isn't even clear on what immune problem they have. ME2 acts like
they have severe allergies, but they speak about nonsence
like "boosting your immune system with antibiotics" which only works
against specific bacterial infections. It's all 100% nonsence.

Our species has lots of pretty bad auto-immune problems. But we can control them with medication. Auto-immune problems are nothing
like what ME portrays them as. It isn't a weak immune system, but
rather a retard immune system that attacks the body's own cellular
tissue and needs to be artificially suppressed to allow for
functioning. Even then, people are not typically more suscepntible to
infection (well, it varies based on the medication dosage) but
oftentimes what happens is that the actual infection itself is many
times worse.

Maybe it was
common for Quarian babies to die from alergic reactions, but the
population quotas and sterile environments made most of those children
survive, becoming the dominant members of the population.

If
there was some hyper allergic trait, natural selection would either
clear it out or (more reasonably) quarians would have put their
children in suits earlier. Their enviro-suit is not magic technology
they invented in outer-space. Think about it this way: if all these
quarians keep dying from the trait, the trait would breed out. The only
exception is if you were a carrier. But at that point, you could just
screen genetically for the disorder.

But having no quarians in suits at the time of their exodus => all quarians in suits today is, well, just magic.

Maybe
there was a genetic defect caused by being nearly continually affected
by a mass effect field (the gravity) from the moment one is born.

Well,
okay, but then adaptation is 100% impossible. There would be no
non-affected quarian stock in existence. All quarians would carry a
mutation that would make their immune systems worthless. Even if they
go back to their homeworld, they'd never be able to remove their suits.

Maybe they "evolutionary" change
was minimal and the Quarians current state is due to none of their
young getting the chance to test their immune systems against any
environment.

That would be simple to cure - raise
your young in contaminated environments. But that's not actually what
ME2 says. They specifically talk about children ''relying'' on their
mother's immune system when they are in the bubble.

Maybe
the original explination made sense, but through re-writes in the story
of ME1, they had to change the dates or reason for the suits.

No, the original explanation was still stupid.

Maybe
someone at bioware just liked the idea of suit people with bad immune
systems so they put it in a game and tried to haphazardly explain it
later.

Probably. I'm just saying trying to reason out what the quarians did is incoherent thanks to all the Bad Science ™.

I'm new here and I don't get this quote program, so I'll just number off my responses

1) Quarian bilogogy in nothing like ours for two reasons.  a) different kind of DNA    no immune system in the way we think of one.  This might be cop-outy, but they are alien, not human.  A seeming evolutionary/biological parelel (sp) is coincidental at best.  They might not even mean the same thing as "immune system" or "anti-biotic" as we do.  I find this esspetially likely with the fact that tali says on there home world they didn't fight off infections so much as incorperate them into the Quarian biology.

2a)  In this hypothesis, I mean to sugest that it was a common mutation that could not be cured (something like a more common, less evil Ardat-Yaksh [sp?]) and, with a desire to preserve as many quarian as possible, they incorperated this sensitive trait into the genome.  Working at low-level exposures to the environment of the homeworld would allow certain quarians to survive their original environment within a lifetime, infant mortality would skyrocket, but with aproximatly 7,000,000 baby maker minimum, the population would stabilize and begin to grow befor the problem became accute.

2b)  I do not recall, but does it say the suits were invented in space or simply their current roll in quarian culture?  Is it not possible there was a small chunk of the population confined to suits, or that new colonists used a mix of suits, clean-rooms, and low-level environmental exposures to acclimate to new environments?

3)  If the advratisments on Illium are to be trusted, there are ways for quarians/vulus to modify their physiology so that they no longer need there suits.  I assume these procedures have high draw-backs aside from the high mortality rates, but I am sure some low-level gene therapy could be implemented in-eutero (sp?) to slowly bring the quarian immune system back to what it once was.

4)  Yeah... this hyposesis is not salvagable...

5)  I meant some explanation we never saw that one writer thought up but it contradicted a main plot point or some such, so either the quarians had to be scraped or re-writen.

6)  Even though this probably was it, I still find it enjoyable (sp) to come up with plausable explanations.  Who know, a writer might see something he likes and re-con it in.

edit: hit the wrong quote button... hehehe...

Modifié par Omnicrat, 15 janvier 2011 - 08:39 .

[tonnactus]

xlavaina wrote...

OP the answer to your question is completely explained in detail, by Tali, in her loyalty mission.

The explanation never make much sense in a world with genetic therapy and technical reviving of dead persons...

[thegreateski]

outlaworacle wrote...

Yes, they are lazy. And filthy. Shifty, too. I'm pretty sure one stole my credit chit.

Quoted for great justice.

[Da_Lion_Man]

They are lazy yes, but I am also lazy. So I don't blame them. Laziness is good.

[Element_Zero]

I guess I'll toss another thought out there. . . What probably brought on their need for Enviro Suits, is the simple fact when you put that many people in one space the possibility of something deadly spreading though-out the population much greater. Couple that with some of the ships, maybe not being in the best of shape or degrading over time. I had the impression they were trying to keep as many Quarians alive as possible. Also as things wear down or supplies start to fall, I'm sure they have to keep a constant contact with other aliens. So they have stuff to repair, build, fly, or as needed food supplies.



Also maybe some of the ME book - lore readers could spread some light on this.

[Weiser_Cain]

zmanwithaplan wrote...

Well while we've moved on to their immune systems, can't this be solved in one of two ways?:
1. Selective breeding of the Quarians who still posses the ability to create certain types of antibodies, this would be unlikely if they ALL somehow lost their entire ability to create antibodies.
2. Genetic modifications are already being used on humans, so why not Quarians? Of course having only 17 million Quarians, none of whom are geneticists (most likely) this option would STILL take decades, if not, centuries.

Basically: The Quarians need the genetic equivalent to a cure for HIV. Not an easy task for such a small species.

1. I thought the idea was that the Quarians are copletely open to infection since it's somehow beneficial on their homeworld. I kind of wonder if they only really have Turian sneezes to worry about.

2. The Genophage, actually two genophages, rewrote the Krogan's DNA without them even feeling a thing. It can be done instantly. What's more the jerk that could do it is singing show tunes in Shepard's science lab.

[zmanwithaplan]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

zmanwithaplan wrote...

Well while we've moved on to their immune systems, can't this be solved in one of two ways?:
1. Selective breeding of the Quarians who still posses the ability to create certain types of antibodies, this would be unlikely if they ALL somehow lost their entire ability to create antibodies.
2. Genetic modifications are already being used on humans, so why not Quarians? Of course having only 17 million Quarians, none of whom are geneticists (most likely) this option would STILL take decades, if not, centuries.

Basically: The Quarians need the genetic equivalent to a cure for HIV. Not an easy task for such a small species.

1. I thought the idea was that the Quarians are copletely open to infection since it's somehow beneficial on their homeworld. I kind of wonder if they only really have Turian sneezes to worry about.

2. The Genophage, actually two genophages, rewrote the Krogan's DNA without them even feeling a thing. It can be done instantly. What's more the jerk that could do it is singing show tunes in Shepard's science lab.

1. True, that would mean quarians never had an immune system, even when they left their homeworld. This would explain why they had these envirosuits ready when they left their homeworld, as they already needed them for spacetravel.
2. The genophages were created when top salarian scientists worked togather to save the council races. There's no such pressing need for helping the quarians. As with the CURE for the genophage, a beneficial DNA alteration for the quarians will likely take decades of work that the other species have no interest in undertaking.

[Praetor Knight]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

What's more the jerk that could do it is singing show tunes in Shepard's science lab.

I take exception to that, Mordin is not a jerk and that is not a show tune!



Edit: That bit that Mordin performs is a patter song and is tough to perform, as seen in the video I posted the link in this post. When done right, like in that video, it can be so awesome.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 16 janvier 2011 - 09:11 .

[catgirl789]

outlaworacle wrote...

Frankly, most of the lore regarding Quarians is sort of dubious. They are the way they are because that's how Bioware wanted them to be. Now, I'll be ducking out of this thread before the Talimancers swoop in and ruin everything (which is what they live to do).

Yes, swooping is bad.... (sorry couldn't resist)

[Weiser_Cain]

zmanwithaplan wrote...



1. True, that would mean quarians never had an immune system, even when they left their homeworld. This would explain why they had these envirosuits ready when they left their homeworld, as they already needed them for spacetravel.

2. The genophages were created when top salarian scientists worked togather to save the council races. There's no such pressing need for helping the quarians. As with the CURE for the genophage, a beneficial DNA alteration for the quarians will likely take decades of work that the other species have no interest in undertaking.

1 It was probably just a space suit.



2 Mordin countered a Reaper plague in at most a week or so. Quarians have most likely already looked into their own genetics at the least, so he won't be starting from scratch. And though the Quarians wouldn't like it (and it would undoubtedly be unwise) he has access to Edi who has access to Cerberus tech, and you just know they've taken apart a Quarian or two.

[Reiella]

Sajuro wrote...

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

True, the Council doesn't treat the Quarians right.... But the problem with the Quarians is that they arne't pro-active. They get denied a planet in Council space do they try to find one outside Council space? Nope, they just cry and spend another century floating around.

And what do you think the current inhabitants of that planet would do to them? Then there would be the raiders who'd attack the Quarians since without their ships they are an easy target. There's more to colonizing a planet than just setting down on it and planting a flag.

However, that's all that's involved in claiming mineral rights .

[MassEffect762]

Why do they remain on the Flotilla?



I always figured them for self-pitying, over cautious cowards.



The universe is a pretty big place, plenty of planets out there, the quarians lack balls.

[Chuvvy]

No, they're stubborn. I don't think the leaders are even putting a real effort into finding a new homeworld. They want the old one and are willing to go to war for it. Without oh, I don't asking for it back first. The geth just keep it clean they don't even live on it.

[Kristofer1]

wow I didnt think this thread would get so many replies so fast. I still dont have the time to read a 4th of the replies.



I think bioware writing aside...

Quarians are so proud that they refused to leave council space and colonize a new world. and attempt to make that area council space.

[Last Vizard]

Siegdrifa wrote...

Kristofer1 wrote...

They could have went outside of "council space" after the loss of their worlds. colonized new worlds, and low and behold create a new area of council space. They would not have needed to adapt to no suits if the colonized immediately instead of begging around the galaxy.

May be you missed the point and explanation of Tali during her mission.

It seems that quarian CAN'T live anywhere else in the galaxy outside their home world without expecting very long bioenginering treatment.
Like she said, it's the difference between 60 years and 600 of adaptation.
They are in exile since 300 years, meaning that even if they tryed to colonisse a new world (not any world would do unfortunatly), they would be a long way from living without their suit.

Quarian always add VERY WEAK immune system, it's like taking a fish from the water and asking him to breath on open air because there is no water anywhere else, it can't be done like that.

May be they were betting that to prepare a war since many decade would still be a lot shorter than adapting to a new world (many century).


Their is specific trait among people you can't choose, black people are immune to sun burn because of the pigmentation of their skin, very white people are very sensitive to sun burn, after weeks / months / years (depend of each individual), white people get tanned skin, it help to prevent from sunburn but it won't be as effective as native black people of Africa for exemple.
Does it mean as a white people we are lazy to get immune to sun burn ? i think not, we just have no controle over it.

hahahaha noone is immune to sun burn, a tan is dead skin cells (very bad), when my parents were in their 20's their friend from Africa brought his family over and they went to the beach in Townsville and when they were offered sunscreen they said while laugh "no thanks, we don't get sun burnt"...... After being in the (Australian) sun on the beach all day, their skin was bubbled and peeling off (very bad)....

[Theoristitis]

The quarians had three options for colonization:
1) A planet or large moon in Council space. As proven, the Council doesn't want the quarians settling. They created a race of destructive AIs - who knows what they could . If they try to settle with their 17 million people and their combination aging technology and random new stuff, the turian armadas will obliterate them. Settling in Council space is not an option.

2) Their old planet. The geth control that and much of the space around it. This option, I should add, is the only one that enables any presently living quarian to eventually move around without a suit due to the relative ease of immune system adaptation. However, this is no option because the quarians hate the geth. These are the servants they brought into existence who rose against them and killed 99% of their race. A near genocide, driving them into space for centuries. Peace is impossible.Tali's one of the more thoughtful quarians on this subject (given the right conversation options with Shepard and some beyond-the-game imagination), and she believes this for a time. Wouldn't you? Option 2 =/= success.

3) Beyond Council space. Of all the options, this is the only viable one, and yet it is the most dangerous. You can't activate random relays - the rachni are evidence of that, and humanity could have been just as deadly. We, the players, have seen the yahg. But while all this is chance and speculation, there is one brutal fact: there's no law out there. The quarians are not a physically powerful species, and they number millions in TOTAL. The batarians would enslave them by the thousand in a heartbeat. Mercenaries, pirates, and other scum would mop up the rest. The quarian military wouldn't stand a chance, and neither would the rest of them. The Council would be happy to see them kill each other, and humanity would be relieved that their colonies aren't hit.

Of these options, the Council is unassailable and the rest of the galaxy is too dangerous. Being technological wizards, the quarians believe they have a chance against the geth. It's no surprise they've spent so much time readying themselves to fight (and die) against the geth. At the same time, they know they're not ready. Deep down, they probably know they never will be. But they have nowhere else to turn and nothing else to do.

Modifié par Theoristitis, 17 janvier 2011 - 03:05 .

[Destroy Raiden_]

I believe Tali said once the Quarians tried to colonize they found a nice world they could've worked with but another race said they had claim to the world and then the Council threatened the Quarians saying if they didn't leave they'd get bombed from orbit.



There is also an adjustment period from what I understand the planets on the homeworld have a symbiotic relationship with its population thats how their systems got so weak to begin with ideally colonizing Rannoch is the best most safest solution for them sense they already know it'll take less time to adjust to Rannoch then to go to some uncharted world outside of known space.



As for them holding a grudge for 300 years here on Earth we've got people holding grudges for 200plus years and still going strong for what some race did to their forever great relative ages ago they can't let go and some of the Quarians can't let go. It is how it is. You can remember what happened to your forever ago relative but you don't have to hate or hold a grudge with the race, sect, or family who did it.

[Exile Isan]

Destroy Raiden wrote...

I believe Tali said once the Quarians tried to colonize they found a nice world they could've worked with but another race said they had claim to the world and then the Council threatened the Quarians saying if they didn't leave they'd get bombed from orbit.

It wasn't Tali, it's in the planetry codex entry for Ekuna. It was a jerk moment for the Council I'll give you that, but it wasn't really a great world anyway really cold, the only really habitable place was around the equator.

[Weiser_Cain]

Last Vizard wrote...
hahahaha noone is immune to sun burn, a tan is dead skin cells (very bad), when my parents were in their 20's their friend from Africa brought his family over and they went to the beach in Townsville and when they were offered sunscreen they said while laugh "no thanks, we don't get sun burnt"...... After being in the (Australian) sun on the beach all day, their skin was bubbled and peeling off (very bad)....

Depends on what part of africa they were from. I've only been burned once in my life, and that was while hanging out in the south, in a pool for about a week with much darker relatives. The skin on my face and shoulders peeled off, they felt nothing.

***
I want to believe that the Quarians have strung together a dozen space stations and moved them far from any relays and the Flotilla everyone sees is just a means of gathering new resources for the shipyards at the hidden HQ.

[TexasToast712]

thatguy212 wrote...

they don't colonize a new world because it would take hundreds of years (i think) before they would not need their suits but with their homeworld it would take alot less, they don't colonize because not alot of worlds are good for them and the ones that are the council already promised to other races, haven't read the books so i don't know about living outside their suits

Its better to have a planet with sterilized facilities to hold your people than to cram them all in old decrepit ships that are slowly falling apart. I agree with the OP. Quarians are lazy.

[Images]

Some Quarians have recently moved onto my lawn and refuse to leave. They constantly keep me up at night singing mournful songs about things called the geth, tried to remove parts from my car and stole tools from my shed. I'd move them off by force but they say that if I tear their suits they'll get ill (damn junkies) and I'll have a lawsuit on my hands. What should I do?

[Last Vizard]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...
hahahaha noone is immune to sun burn, a tan is dead skin cells (very bad), when my parents were in their 20's their friend from Africa brought his family over and they went to the beach in Townsville and when they were offered sunscreen they said while laugh "no thanks, we don't get sun burnt"...... After being in the (Australian) sun on the beach all day, their skin was bubbled and peeling off (very bad)....

Depends on what part of africa they were from. I've only been burned once in my life, and that was while hanging out in the south, in a pool for about a week with much darker relatives. The skin on my face and shoulders peeled off, they felt nothing.

***
I want to believe that the Quarians have strung together a dozen space stations and moved them far from any relays and the Flotilla everyone sees is just a means of gathering new resources for the shipyards at the hidden HQ.

Yes, it would be the smartest thing for a race that needs clean environments to build space stations instead of needing a world.

um, the dark part of Africa? I'm as white as you can get without being a ginger, got black hair and i've been burnt four or five times when i was a kid so now i always use sun screen.

Modifié par Last Vizard, 17 janvier 2011 - 10:04 .

[Last Vizard]

Images wrote...

Some Quarians have recently moved onto my lawn and refuse to leave. They constantly keep me up at night singing mournful songs about things called the geth, tried to remove parts from my car and stole tools from my shed. I'd move them off by force but they say that if I tear their suits they'll get ill (damn junkies) and I'll have a lawsuit on my hands. What should I do?

1. play country music day and night
2. walk around naked in your house but leave the curtins open
3. make it clear that you have a suit fetish then chase them in underwear while humping the air
4. one word.... mormons, gets rid of everyone accept it attracts more mormons.

[Siegdrifa]

Last Vizard wrote...

hahahaha noone is immune to sun burn, a tan is dead skin cells (very bad), when my parents were in their 20's their friend from Africa brought his family over and they went to the beach in Townsville and when they were offered sunscreen they said while laugh "no thanks, we don't get sun burnt"...... After being in the (Australian) sun on the beach all day, their skin was bubbled and peeling off (very bad)....

Bad choice of word sorry, it's not immune, it's naturaly more protected toward sunburn,
When i say tanned skin, i mean people who are not black but live in hot country, so they have "brown" skin, and it help to preserve from sun burn, it's a fact.

The skin getting brownish is the natural adaptation of the skin toward the sun shine, the body react and evolve to his environement the best he can, that's fact. But each body react differently and not on the same time line.

None of my black friend never needed sunscreen (one from La Réunion, the other from Africa), they just lol about that when we go to the sea.
Few years ago i have been with my girlfriend and her young sister to the sea in an island, south in thailand (my gf is thai). it was the first time for her young sister to see the sea and swin in it.
We had no sunscreen, she just had "brownish" skin color (like most thai), she had no problem at all, i just swim less the 3 hour, next day i got my skin burned and it was pretty bad, liquid was leaking from my skin like swet, even when i rested in a drak room, some small part of my skin was detaching from my body because the liquid was pushing from under,
I ended up to the hospital for minor medical care, i had to apply protective cream especial where is skin was lost, because the flesh was unprotected.
I'm used to go to the sea and swim in it since i'm 7 years hold, and i live near the sea since 20 years, i never had it that bad, but the problem didn't came from the sun directly, it was du the the crystal clear sea that was leting to the sunshine.

So, like it or not, the color skin is basicaly just the adaptation to people in their environement for their own protection.
This is why historicaly, there was no black people in europe, as there was no white people in africa.
If the people in africa is originaly black, as the people in europe are originaly white (i won't push until the whole humanity is born), it's not a matter of coincidance, it's the natural adaptation through millénia to the environement.

edit: ah, now i remmeber one of my black friend getting a sun burn, it was at the ski. the only sunburn he add in his life (for what he remember)

Modifié par Siegdrifa, 17 janvier 2011 - 11:17 .