299 réponses à ce sujet

[wolfman99202]

I like that the rogue can actually "move" in this game. Walking sideways and swinging at the back of enemies in Origins wasn't exactly "roguish" in my opinion. I also hope that rogues can actually BACKSTAB the enemy as well. Swinging doesn't exactly kill someone too easily. In Origins you had to be in the right spot to backstab and it wasn't all that effective. Second I think the blood and mature-based art style is Dragon Age style. The story may also have some mature themes to it as well that most aren't considering. We have only seen snippets of the story and have to wait until we play the game before the story and it's possible themes are revealed.

[Onyx Jaguar]

sick, what was your 8 year old nephew born int he 70s? does he surf some sweet waves?

[errant_knight]

OP: I agree that it's gone way too far the other direction, but I disagree that the tactical combat was boring. I enjoyed it very much, and am still enjoying it in my umteenth playthrough. There are enough possible options that while you can do everything the same way each time, you certainly don't have to. That being said, if they'd just tweaked the animations to make some a little faster of more visceral--not all, some were very good-that would have been fine. But now it looks like a game I wouldn't even be considering if it didn't have 'Bioware' on the box.

[In Exile]

kayangelus wrote...

coolide wrote...

It's one thing to kill your enemies; it's doing it with style that counts.

I'm pretty sure there was a DA:O load screen quote on this topic (going to paraphrase because I can't remember exactly):

"Try to flank your enemies. History won't remember how heroic your failed frontal charge looked"

The irony, though, is that unless you're using a backstab rogue, this is basically 100% irrelevant advice. Not to mention that flanking in 4 on 4 combat where the other group sees you from far away (90% of the encounters) just happens to be incoherent.

Point being, in this franchise, or really anything targeted for mature (not older, but mature) audiences, efficient slaughtering counts before looks. Of course, that doesn't mean you can't have both style and efficiency.

DA:O certainly wanted to do this. It didn't. Also, you can totally be stylish and efficient. You just can't be stylish and realistic, but that isn't the same thing.

If you prefer to do your combat by trying to be tactical and efficient, than what should concern you is the DPS, and effects of the moves, not the looks. About the only group I can think of whom can rationally feel alienated by it are those who like the franchise for simplistic looking combat. Which is a sentiment I can't understand.

I'm a big fan of builds & powergaming. Yet how things look is 100% irrelevant to this. What aesthetic I likehas nothing to do with how combat looks. That's totally another preference. I happen to like acrobatic combat aesthetically.

[upsettingshorts]

So this is another Goldilocks thread, is it?

[In Exile]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

So this is another Goldilocks thread, is it?

My porridge twirls too much.

[Onyx Jaguar]

My porridge sense is tingling

[TheMadCat]

You just can't be stylish and realistic

Bruce Lee would like a word with you from the grave.

[Onyx Jaguar]

So would any pimp since the 1970s

[TheMadCat]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

So would any pimp since the 1970s

that, give me the mobsters from the '30's. That's style.

[elearon1]

Michael Hamilton wrote... I don't understand what you mean by over the top or flashy... I roundhouse kick no fewer than 10 things every day.

At least one of those being people who complain about the gameplay without having tried it out, surely? 

Seriously, I watched this and my thought was ... wow, comparatively, the tactical gameplay looked really boring.  Keeping in mind that I am a person who generally enjoys that play style, but after a while the micro managing just takes the spice out of encounters.  I know that there were times in DA:O where I just wanted to run along with my Warden and hoped my AI commands for the rest of the group were updated enough that I could leave them to their own devices for a few fights.

It looks like here I'll get the best of both worlds.  In the typical, time wasting encounters you have to cut through on the way to your goals, you'll be able to play hard and fast and get right in the middle of the action, but when those tricky and more complex fights do come up you can pause the game and take a step back to think and plan more tactically.  To me this seems like an awesome compromise between the two play styles and - finally - I suspect I understand what they meant by that "fight like a spartan, think like a general" line.

[Melca36]

I'm going to try something different for this game.

While I may have some concerns, I am going to play the game in its entirety. If I am left completely disappointed by the outcome, I will post my disgust and disdain in it.

I see no point in judging a game thats not out yet.

[royceclemens]

I see no problem with the combat. In a game that has dragons and elves, I just can't draw the realism line at how my character chooses to kick his enemies.

[Felixitous]

Watching that video, my first thought was "When did they start consulting Jak and Daxter?" The graphics and over-exaggerated motions remind me of those games. I love Jak and all, but that just doesn't fit into Dragon Age.



Of course, I also loved the combat in DA:O, where it seems many didn't.

[Sabariel]

The only things that bugs me about the new rogues is that they can no longer wear massive armor. I always wanted to be a plate-armor-wearing-ninja who flipped about, killing things. Now I will never realize that dream

Modifié par Sabariel, 15 janvier 2011 - 07:07 .

[baddogkelevra]

Aside from the flask-kicking, I think it looks great. They really have improved the flow and movement of combat.

But why are you guys worried about the game trying to be too mature? Don't you remember how everyone complained about them using Marilyn Manson music to market DA:O. And what happened? Everyone shut up immediately when the game was released. It will all be just fine.

Modifié par baddogkelevra, 15 janvier 2011 - 07:12 .

[flamesoul32]

Sabariel wrote...

The only things that bugs me about the new rogues is that they can no longer wear massive armor. I always wanted to be a plate-armor-wearing-ninja who flipped about, killing things. Now I will never realize that dream

Hawkes armor is still linked to stats. You CAN do this.

[Vaeliorin]

*shrugs* I think it's too fast and too flashy, and that yes, the marketing, at least, is trying too hard to appear "cool" and "mature". Of course, if I had my druthers (be glad, I almost linked you to the song but decided not to), the game would be turn-based on a hex grid, much like DA:Journeys.

[addiction21]

In Exile wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

So this is another Goldilocks thread, is it?

My porridge twirls too much.

Mine have waffles in it and thats how I like it damnit!!!



As for the question asked in the title... not anymore then DAO tried.

Modifié par addiction21, 15 janvier 2011 - 08:16 .

[Harid]

Look cool, yes.



Look mature? Well, it's a larger issue with most devs nowadays that think maturity equates to ****** and blood. It's a bigger issue with the medium overall than just this game.

[Zaros]

Lusitanum wrote...

OK, first off, let me say that I've just recently rejoined the community. I've pre-ordered DA2 because I liked the first one (despite its flaws) and I liked what I had read about the sequel so far. The things is that recently I started to actually watch some videos and... well, I apologize if this has been already been discussed before, but I get the feeling just wants to be as "edgy" as possible.

Starting with the combat, I'm kind of glad that now we've got the option to actually fight during a battle. Given how boring and repetitive the "tactical" combat was in the first one (always beating every - single - encounter with the exact same approach with the exact same outcome) it was good to see that at least now there was something to actually engage the player in a fight and prevent me from falling asleep while I play again :happy: .

And then I watched this video and HOLY CHRIST, WHAT IS THIS?! Why is Hawke jumping around like a Mexican jumping bean and piroueting like he's the goddamned Prince of Persia? This looks like something out of the most outrageous of JRPGs and just makes all these motions look awkward and unrealistic. And... wait, did Hawke just throw a flask into the air and then roundhouse kicked it into his enemies at 1:55?! They're called "arms", Hawke. You already used them to throw the thing into the air, why not just change the angle a bit and send it directly against your enemies instead of wasting time just to show off your new trick that should have just burst in your face when you kicked the highly fragile flask with a roundhouse!

Because having swords that cut through armor like it's paper mache' was totally realistic, amirite? And this is all ignoring the fact that 1, it's a fantasy game (last time a checked, if a human being is frozen in place, they're not going to just walk it off and charge at the person who froze them), and 2, the fast paced combat is optional, there will be an auto attack setting as well, for those of you who want the combat to be as slow as it was in Origins.

Dont' get me wrong, it's a good thing that the fights actually look a lot more dynamic than in the first game, where (unless your characters were Hasted) everyone swung their weapons so slowly, you'd think any normal fighter not bound by the rules of combat from that game could just dodge to the side and beat up our valiant heroes with their bare hands before they even had the chance to finish their first swing. And after the way that combat in KotOR looked like an actual fight (or at least until you noticed all the repeating animations ), this was especially disapointing. But now with DA2, you just went into the other extreme and made the combat look so frenetic, it doesn't even look real either, it just feels gamey.

Maybe that's because... you know... it's a game? (and once again, that form of combat is optional.

Oh, and just as small aside, what's the brilliant "tactical" example used in this video? The good ol' "Get the Warrior to tank and draw aggro while everybody else supports and deals DPS" strategy that has become a cliché of RPGs. Great, because that wasn't the exact same tactic that I used to beat the entirety of Dragon Age 1 (along with the expansion and DLCs). Please tell me that you're actually going to introduce new kind of enemies that force you to adapt to something beyond that...

Then use your own tactics. Come up with something new on your own, instead of whining about only having old cliche's on the internet. (also, this is a trailer, why should he waste time thinking up some complicated strategy in sandbox mode when all he's trying to do is sow you the basics of how things work).

And secondly... what's with all the excessive blood? Again, this is another thing that was really unecessary in the first game: putting blood everywhere so that the game becomes more "mature". If you're just going to spray buckets of blood (often in quantities that even surpass an enemies mass), and then make it your motif in your loading screens, your codex, your map trailings and your pet goldfish, then you're just being as mature as a game of Mortal Kombat. With the exception that MK is kind of supposed to be this simple and kind of cheesy fighting game, not a highly complex interactive narrative that tries to create a deep, fullfilling story with hard choices and consequences and is meant to be enjoyed by a more mature audience.

And yet, acording to the videos, you're still insisting on that fake-looking "whole body covered in comical specks of blood" gimmick, which already looked awful in the fist game, but here, it just prevents from taking any scene I'm watching seriously.

Now, I know I'm going to get a lot of crap for saying this, but I just needed to share this with the community and see what you think. Am I the only one who thinks that Dragon Age 2 is just trying way too hard to look flashy and exciting and the expense of looking competely ridiculous?

That fake-looking "whole body covered in comical specks of blood" gimmick was optional (you do know there was an options menu, right?), as far as the large amounts of blood go, I wasn't actually paying attention to that, so what if there was a lot? Perhaps the maturity problems don't rest on those who thrive of excessive amounts of gore, but rather, those who feel the need to complain about it?

And sorry in advance if I offended you (and I'm sure I did) not here to start a flame war, just sharing my opinion.

Modifié par Zaros, 15 janvier 2011 - 08:30 .

[Rawgrim]

Considering that Merrill looks like a 12 year old manga elf, mature goes straight out the window. (For me at least).