music is always good
Do you like to hear music while you are playing a module?
Débuté par
M. Rieder
, janv. 15 2011 03:47
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#27
Posté 17 janvier 2011 - 06:06
kevL
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plug : E-Nature, Monochromatic World
( includes incredibly beautiful girl .. no boobs, don't need 'em fer this! )
( includes incredibly beautiful girl .. no boobs, don't need 'em fer this! )
#28
Posté 17 janvier 2011 - 12:46
Haplose
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I think music can add a lot to the atmoshpere of a module. The Maimed God's Saga is a prime example.
Re-using all the old NWN1 tracks is getting a bit old tho....
Re-using all the old NWN1 tracks is getting a bit old tho....
#29
Posté 20 janvier 2011 - 04:32
dunniteowl
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You know, I have gone from wanting to hear music that drowns out all else, hearing it as a background, hearing it in what might considered ambient appropriate areas and not wanting to hear it at all. And it's not a gradual change or anything like that. It's really more a mood sort of thing.
That said, these days I think in cinematic terms blended with a little cinema verite as a base. Like boulliabaisse. By itself, the stock isn't much. It has to be blended to have flavorful context.
So nowadays, I would appreciate a little Area Opener music as appropriate, you know like creepy music when entering the ruined temple, deep melancholy music as the character departs from their once cherished (and now destroyed) hometown or home. That sort of thing. Not continuous, though, huh uh. Even in movies, you don't get the entire song -- as it would actually detract from the story telling device in the first place. I believe the same holds true in gaming.
Music is another device to enhance the gameplay, either in story, atmosphere, setting a scene, etc, but not as the ends in and of itself, though that is said with the caveat that there are exceptions to every rule.
So I place my vote in music as appropriate to set mood (then stop or fade it out entirely) and sometimes that whole "less is more" approach where no music in some instances sets a tone that juxtaposes itself in a way that enhances when you do hear music.
For that matter, ambient sounds can get annoyingly overdone as well. Of course, the issue is that this is really subjective material for a topic in the first place. Though I would also consider setting timers or limits (even area triggers, for that matter) for music and ambient sounds so as not to overwash the entire experience with background music or background ambient sounds.
As to music and copyright, the line I would take is this: Officially you should always be asking permission to use someone else's work. In a "realpolitick" sense, though, as long as you're not sampling more than 30 seconds (or in some cases more than a full stanza, which can be considerably shorter) you only have to provide credit and not get permission. Even the most litigious of companies cannot sue you for that -- and at most would summarily send you a cease and desist order before further action.
That said, there are so many works that are considered public (like a lot of older symphonic works) domain due to their longevity and so many starving artists of merit that would love to have one more way to promote their efforts that finding music should really never be a problem. And if it is, I am a very mean kazoo player and vocal mimic of sounds (
Shamelss plug with tongue firmly in cheek -- still...)
I have been toying with setting up music from different bards and performers in a street bazaar scene that as you walk by, their music takes precedence over the others you can still hear and have it fade in and out with the distance from each performing group. I figured I'd do the same for ambient crowd and people noises. I just don't know how auditorially confusing (which is sort of the point, actually, to present that 'overload' of sound that can be in a larger market faire scene) it might be.
As a cinematic device, it might be the ticket. As a gameplay enhancement, it might totally backfire.
For me:
1) intro to area music to set tone and atmosphere
2) normally hearing music at inns, taverns, bars, and faires of a specific period mood
3) music as "announcement" to scenes and encounters (sort of the Opera's Leitmotif that Wagner invented)
4) where appropriate triggered to start, loop and then fade out.
Beyond that, the field is so subjective that anything more definitive would be pointless.
I do, however, more often than not, turn off the music altogether. I also offer that this is borne from the indisputable fact that game developers and music don't mix well -- in the musical sense, that is. It's almost always overdone, repetitive and drives to distraction as it takes away from my focus on the game itself and playing in battle = music bad when my other auditory clues are overdriven as to what's going on in the encounter.
dunniteowl
That said, these days I think in cinematic terms blended with a little cinema verite as a base. Like boulliabaisse. By itself, the stock isn't much. It has to be blended to have flavorful context.
So nowadays, I would appreciate a little Area Opener music as appropriate, you know like creepy music when entering the ruined temple, deep melancholy music as the character departs from their once cherished (and now destroyed) hometown or home. That sort of thing. Not continuous, though, huh uh. Even in movies, you don't get the entire song -- as it would actually detract from the story telling device in the first place. I believe the same holds true in gaming.
Music is another device to enhance the gameplay, either in story, atmosphere, setting a scene, etc, but not as the ends in and of itself, though that is said with the caveat that there are exceptions to every rule.
So I place my vote in music as appropriate to set mood (then stop or fade it out entirely) and sometimes that whole "less is more" approach where no music in some instances sets a tone that juxtaposes itself in a way that enhances when you do hear music.
For that matter, ambient sounds can get annoyingly overdone as well. Of course, the issue is that this is really subjective material for a topic in the first place. Though I would also consider setting timers or limits (even area triggers, for that matter) for music and ambient sounds so as not to overwash the entire experience with background music or background ambient sounds.
As to music and copyright, the line I would take is this: Officially you should always be asking permission to use someone else's work. In a "realpolitick" sense, though, as long as you're not sampling more than 30 seconds (or in some cases more than a full stanza, which can be considerably shorter) you only have to provide credit and not get permission. Even the most litigious of companies cannot sue you for that -- and at most would summarily send you a cease and desist order before further action.
That said, there are so many works that are considered public (like a lot of older symphonic works) domain due to their longevity and so many starving artists of merit that would love to have one more way to promote their efforts that finding music should really never be a problem. And if it is, I am a very mean kazoo player and vocal mimic of sounds (
Shamelss plug with tongue firmly in cheek -- still...)I have been toying with setting up music from different bards and performers in a street bazaar scene that as you walk by, their music takes precedence over the others you can still hear and have it fade in and out with the distance from each performing group. I figured I'd do the same for ambient crowd and people noises. I just don't know how auditorially confusing (which is sort of the point, actually, to present that 'overload' of sound that can be in a larger market faire scene) it might be.
As a cinematic device, it might be the ticket. As a gameplay enhancement, it might totally backfire.
For me:
1) intro to area music to set tone and atmosphere
2) normally hearing music at inns, taverns, bars, and faires of a specific period mood
3) music as "announcement" to scenes and encounters (sort of the Opera's Leitmotif that Wagner invented)
4) where appropriate triggered to start, loop and then fade out.
Beyond that, the field is so subjective that anything more definitive would be pointless.
I do, however, more often than not, turn off the music altogether. I also offer that this is borne from the indisputable fact that game developers and music don't mix well -- in the musical sense, that is. It's almost always overdone, repetitive and drives to distraction as it takes away from my focus on the game itself and playing in battle = music bad when my other auditory clues are overdriven as to what's going on in the encounter.
dunniteowl
#30
Posté 20 janvier 2011 - 05:23
The Fred
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We should so set up an NWN "orchestra".dunniteowl wrote...
And if it is, I am a very mean kazoo player and vocal mimic of sounds
#31
Posté 20 janvier 2011 - 06:29
DJ Doc
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In Game music, nope I prefere some Motörhead, Demented Are Go, Mad Sin or FIelds of the Nephilim while playing sometimes a good old John Carpenter Score or Slayer ;-)
#32
Posté 20 janvier 2011 - 06:38
kevL
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i strongly agree with Dno's perspective
I mean, game design with soundrak integration is an artform itself. The music (and ambience) can become overwhelming and start to distract. on the other hand, all that's *needed* really is just an intro-segment or sequence in an area (see above); repeat at odd moments. Lastly, i notice that great designers very often use subtle clues that foreshadow events - why not set a trigger that goes "Dum dum Dum!!" then all falls silent, just as you're crawling down that long last corridor ..?
@TheFred, I'll Produce ( oh please, noooooooooooo! )
I mean, game design with soundrak integration is an artform itself. The music (and ambience) can become overwhelming and start to distract. on the other hand, all that's *needed* really is just an intro-segment or sequence in an area (see above); repeat at odd moments. Lastly, i notice that great designers very often use subtle clues that foreshadow events - why not set a trigger that goes "Dum dum Dum!!" then all falls silent, just as you're crawling down that long last corridor ..?
@TheFred, I'll Produce ( oh please, noooooooooooo! )
#33
Posté 20 janvier 2011 - 08:03
dunniteowl
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Another thought is the use of ambient sound and then shut it all off and have an NPC or Companion say, "Do you hear that?"\\\\ ( <-- where the hell did that come from?)
Of course, then you say, "Hear what?"\\\\ ( <-- ditto)
NPC says, "That's just it. Nothing. Not even crickets!"
Cue spooky OoooWeeeOooOoo Oooooooh.
classic.
dno
(for the record, a neighbor once knocked on my door to ask if he could "jam" with me. He'd brought his guitar and amp to accompany my saxophone he heard all the time. It was just me and my kazoo. Imagine the shock on his face when I showed him my sax. Riot. )
Of course, then you say, "Hear what?"\\\\ ( <-- ditto)
NPC says, "That's just it. Nothing. Not even crickets!"
Cue spooky OoooWeeeOooOoo Oooooooh.
classic.
dno
(for the record, a neighbor once knocked on my door to ask if he could "jam" with me. He'd brought his guitar and amp to accompany my saxophone he heard all the time. It was just me and my kazoo. Imagine the shock on his face when I showed him my sax. Riot. )
Modifié par dunniteowl, 20 janvier 2011 - 08:06 .
#34
Posté 20 janvier 2011 - 08:38
Arkalezth
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Kinda off-topic: Can something like that be done in a module? With a Listen skill check? It'd be pretty cool.dunniteowl wrote...
Another thought is the use of ambient sound and then shut it all off and have an NPC or Companion say, "Do you hear that?"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ ( <-- where the hell did that come from?)
Of course, then you say, "Hear what?"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ ( <-- ditto)
NPC says, "That's just it. Nothing. Not even crickets!"
Cue spooky OoooWeeeOooOoo Oooooooh.
classic.
Funny story, dno. I guess you could still jam, even with a kazoo.
Modifié par Arkalezth, 20 janvier 2011 - 08:40 .
#35
Posté 20 janvier 2011 - 08:55
PJ156
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Yes it can and it's a good idea as well ....
I have used injected ambients into convos, door knocking and such like but I had not thought to have them as part of the convo in this way.
I have used injected ambients into convos, door knocking and such like but I had not thought to have them as part of the convo in this way.
#36
Posté 21 janvier 2011 - 02:09
Quixal
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Music is a stylistic choice. As such, there is no right answer. My personal preference right now is for music to be present in a mod but used sparingly. I think Kamal's approach in PoE (heh, I just got his name change) works well but at the same time the constant use of music in, say, MotB worked well too.
#37
Posté 21 janvier 2011 - 05:52
M. Rieder
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Yeah, I just picked up on that too!
#38
Posté 21 janvier 2011 - 07:25
kamal_
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I think you just have to be consistent. You can have no music, music only in specific types of areas (like I did, taverns/the OM), music everywhere, or refrains when entering areas. Pick one and go for it, these things have different "feel".
As far as my work goes. Some said they liked it Some said no music was different and they appreciated that I tried something different even if they discovered they preferred music. And some said they liked the campaign but it really needed some music.
So my conclusion has been either don't have music, or have really good music. If the music is forgettable music people won't notice (despite however much time it took to get the music). If you're going to do it, do it right like http://social.biowar...7/index/5733408
As far as my work goes. Some said they liked it Some said no music was different and they appreciated that I tried something different even if they discovered they preferred music. And some said they liked the campaign but it really needed some music.
So my conclusion has been either don't have music, or have really good music. If the music is forgettable music people won't notice (despite however much time it took to get the music). If you're going to do it, do it right like http://social.biowar...7/index/5733408
#39
Posté 22 janvier 2011 - 08:24
casadechrisso
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Area music is an important part for me, as a builder I can spend hours trying to pick the right one. I'm often kinda disappointed too when I ask a playtester about their opinion and they say "uh, sorry, I had iTunes in the background". That said, it's still a player's choice in the end, they can turn music off in their settings if they don't like it and still have their iTunes running. I'll keep including music though, it's my personal preference and I'm mainly building for myself (in the sense of, the world I want to play in).
