192 réponses à ce sujet

[_punt172o]

Yes the cold may preserve matter to a point but the vacuum alone... I don't get it... lol... How was this possible? There is no way a body even with some armor can survive planetary re-entry. I can't believe none of this was explained. WTF?!

Is there a better explanation of how the Lazarus Project worked?  Like some kind of codex that goes into detail? A youtube video? Does someone know of some resource that explains this properly?

Right now, NONE of this makes any sense. Like absolutely NONE.   Not even .5% ....... I know this is a game, but this makes like NO SENSE AT ALL. lol

Do they give any explanation to any of this in the game? 

I'm very close to uninstalling this stupid game, the reason I play Mass Effect One is because they tried to explain things as much as possible in accordance with real life rules.  I know it's just a game, but remember how well they explained interstellar networks? Latency?  I mean these guys pay attention to detail.

But now the intro to Mass Effect 2 DOESN'T MAKE ANY ****ING SENSE, NONE AT ALL. I'm sooo pissed...

Modifié par punt172o, 15 janvier 2011 - 10:51 .

[FOZ289]

It's not. The brain cells are dead, and they can't be brought back. I'm not even into biology and I can see that the whole "Lazarus Project" is a load of crap. It seems a good number of people have a problem with the whole "science = magic" attitude of Mass Effect, as well as the whole thing with killing Shepard, jumping forward two years, and so little has changed.

[adam_grif]

If "Zero G destroys all cells" then how do you explain astronauts who spend significant time in freefall (and some who went to the moon) not dying? Zero G is the physiological equivelant of being in freefall.



Yes the Lazarus project is impossible. But not for that reason.

[Xivai]

Hypothetically speaking, and this is from memory. There is something that controls cell replication, and when you get old enough this decays and your cells stop multiplying. Well in a crash this is damaged and your dead. Well if it get's damaged it can be a cause of death. Just had to clarify that. Hypothetically if they had advanced far enough that they could add some of this stuff back on it would allow cells to replicate, but you would need cells in the first place. Unless you started with a stem cell injection.

The memory would be far trickier, and there's nothing I know of that states if brain cells are brought back to life they retain memory and experience. Adding on new brain cells could get his mind working again, but the memories would likely not be there. It's also unknown how much capabilities are retained. That and there is some evidence that the mind has a small quantum component because our eyes do. Its an almost completely unexplored field of science at the moment unless your on THE cutting edge, and even then all we can do is say yes this is happening. So we have no data there at all.

At this point you could probably get a meat puppet with known technology pushed to its limit. The body would be the easiest to do actually. Not saying much though as it's still pretty much impossible.

Not to mention if he is bombarded by radiation it might make trying to regrow cells pointless, but he did have that armour on. We have no idea of that thing's capabilities, but assuming he seems fine on Tuchunka it's probably radiation proof or close to it. Like I said just the mind would be impossible. Now if they had been uploading his memories into a computer like Kasumi then we might be able to do something. Although it might STILL be a meat puppet with limited memories.

Body = Plausible, but not for a hell of a long time. Mind = Impossible/Unknown

I am by no means an expert so if one should appear please defer to him.

Modifié par Xivai, 15 janvier 2011 - 08:09 .

[InvincibleHero]

They wanted it to be more dramatic. A simpler explanation would have worked. Shepard suffocated when the atmosphere leaked from the suit. Body recovered in outerspace and revived in coma for two years. Something biotics whatever woke shepard back up.

[Lebrine]

Yeah well just remember that most of humanities tech is based on Prothean tech, so its more plausible that they possessed the tech to "resurrect" Shepard. Although I got the impression that Shepards body was recovered fairly soon after the incident so it could be entirely possible that the life signs were still there.

[Lebrine]

Oh, also Shepard had a pretty nifty suit of armour complete with shielding which probably helped when breaking through that planets atmosphere.

[InvincibleHero]

Lebrine wrote...

Oh, also Shepard had a pretty nifty suit of armour complete with shielding which probably helped when breaking through that planets atmosphere.

Except for the fact it was compromised by shrapnel from the explosion.

[desonnac00]

Scientifically, the Lazarus project IS SOUND!
Check it people. No, it isn't explained well, but IT IS POSSIBLE.

A human being is like a computer. Within our DNA is the memory of every single ancestor- that includes EVERYTHING. Facial stricture, memories, hair color, how to talk, walk, etc. That memory is the hard drive. It is NOT power dependant. OUR memories. The one we acquire SINCE BIRTH are RAM. They ARE power dependant. Shut down the power- it's gone. BUT the body also copies the RAM on to the hard drive. That's why people with amnesia sometimes recover memories of their entire life BEFORE the trauma that got them. Having Just a piece of Sheps body IS ENOUGH to reconstruct him/her. In present day, such tech to read DNA efectively is not available, but the science behind it IS SOUND. Unfortunetly, Bioware doesn't bother much with science in this sci-fi epic, but the fundamental principal is not outrageous. People who say: But how did Sheps brain survive- It DIDN'T and it didn't have to. 
To anyone who want to debunk me- This is still a more or less radical idea in modern day science and I do realise it sounds ridiculous to some/most of you, but again- The basic principle is SOUND.
After reading the DNA, It's just a matter of "building" Shep. Yes, you need tech to to remake the brain, synaptic pathways, essentially WRITE his/her memories once more with would be a rather traumatic expirience but bottom line- possible- yes. Easy- NO, but possible- yes.

Modifié par desonnac00, 15 janvier 2011 - 08:38 .

[SSV Enterprise]

It's not. It's sci-fi, things like this happen. And this is one of the rare moments in Mass Effect where the writers don't even try to explain it. It just is.

[GnusmasTHX]

It was something something something stem cells, something something something biotics, something something fictional.

[SSV Enterprise]

Hmm, stem cells would be helpful in regenerating the body, but still useless in recovering mental power. One plot hole with the Lazarus Project is that, if Cerberus did have a magic way of restoring Shepard's memory, that doesn't change the fact that his brain would be decayed and incapable of contributing anything useful. Why didn't they just forget about the original body and just clone Shepard?

[adam_grif]

The memories, personality etc of a human are all stored as "software" based on the present configuration of the human brain, which constantly rewires itself based on experience. There is no archived storage for this, since that would by necessity be as informationally complex as the original mind itself. It is not stored in DNA, and regenerating a destroyed brain will not restore memories, personality or anything else (not even things like muscle memory and skills you had), you would get the neurological equivelant of a new born baby.

When people with amnesia "lose memories" and then recover them later, the memories were never gone in the first place. They were simply inaccessable.

Modifié par adam_grif, 15 janvier 2011 - 08:47 .

[_punt172o]

Here is what I came up with:



* The planet had almost no atmosphere so there was barely any resistance on re-entry.



* Even though the body armor had shrapnel in it, the shielding system could still regenerate.



Conclusion?



Shepard might of slowly burned while suffocating with a devastating collision into the surface. You would think crashing into water may make some kind of difference, but if there was water wouldn't there be an atmosphere?



I dunno. Any more thoughts on this? I really don't wnat to play this stupid game if it's going to be full of major plot holes like this... So I need to figure out something for this horrible plot line.

[_punt172o]

*double post sorry*

Modifié par punt172o, 15 janvier 2011 - 09:21 .

[didymos1120]

punt172o wrote...

Here is what I came up with:

* The planet had almost no atmosphere so there was barely any resistance on re-entry.

It does have an atmosphere, heavy on methane and ammonia.  The pressure is listed as .83 atm.

[_punt172o]

didymos1120 wrote...

punt172o wrote...

Here is what I came up with:

* The planet had almost no atmosphere so there was barely any resistance on re-entry.

It does have an atmosphere, heavy on methane and ammonia.  The pressure is listed as .83 atm.

Do you think they might explain what happened in ME3? As of right now I'm judging the rest of the game based upon this plot line that makes absolutely no sense.

[FOZ289]

I'm guessing we're supposed to ignore it no matter how utterly ridiculous it was. You know, just like everyone in-game totally dismisses it as soon as Shepard says "Cerberus rebuilt me."

[Merchant2006]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Lebrine wrote...

Oh, also Shepard had a pretty nifty suit of armour complete with shielding which probably helped when breaking through that planets atmosphere.

Except for the fact it was compromised by shrapnel from the explosion.

And I'd have thought his armour would have fizzed off during re-entry into the planet, heh. Well... iz magic!

[marshalleck]

punt172o wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

punt172o wrote...

Here is what I came up with:

* The planet had almost no atmosphere so there was barely any resistance on re-entry.

It does have an atmosphere, heavy on methane and ammonia.  The pressure is listed as .83 atm.

Do you think they might explain what happened in ME3? As of right now I'm judging the rest of the game based upon this plot line that makes absolutely no sense.

Nope. They dug themselves into a hole with this one. Mass Effect went from being science fiction to science fantasy with one stroke of Mac Walters' pen. 

And yes, I realize science fiction/fantasy doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but I don't know what else to call it. It's certainly losing the "science" part.

Modifié par marshalleck, 15 janvier 2011 - 11:05 .

[didymos1120]

marshalleck wrote...
Nope. They dug themselves into a hole with this one. Mass Effect went from being science fiction to science fantasy with one stroke of Mac Walters' pen. 

I wasn't aware we knew who was responsible for that plot point.  Did he give an interview about it or something?

[Skohsl]

A human being is like a computer. Within our DNA is the memory of every single ancestor- that includes EVERYTHING.

You are confusing science with Assassins Creed. Nothing is stored in your DNA of your memories, they all reside within your brain (some knowledge might be transferrable via DNA (i.e. hereditary), but it's no more than basic primal responses (think insects)).

Theoretically it should be possible however to replace all the dead cells with new living cells. This is something your body does every day, so you should be able to do this with nanobots while supplying the body with oxigen and nutrients artificially. The only problem is that the cells in the brain have specific links with eachother that form a complex neural network. If all the connections were still in place, you should, theoretically, be able to copy it entirely and replace the dead cells with new ones.

Although it seems very unlikely that it is possible, there is no real reason (other than the degrading of the brain cells) that it could not be done.

Just think about it for a moment, organ transplants are relatively common place now, in some time (and some stemcell research later) we can grow our own organs to replace the old ones. This is something that there is no doubt on that we can achieve within a limited time. If you can replace and regrow organs, you can grow and replace random cells. If you make nanobots, they could be placing new cells where the old ones were and remove the old ones. Although a bit of a stretch, it is feasible with science we are exploring today (it will be a very long time before we can do anything of the sort, but it seems to be an attainable goal). Why can you not scale up this process to an entire human body?

As I said, the only thing that might be a problem is the degeneration of neural cells, once their connections are untraceable, the information is lost. If you enjoy the computer metaphore, you can reconstruct all the hardware, but if you cannot connect it properly, it won't work. (Not software, the implementation of the software is the positioning and interconnections of the hardware (i.e. the neurons)).

[_punt172o]

Maybe that big ship prevented you from entering the planets atmosphere?

I just beat Mass Effect One, and I just started playing ME2, and this plot line has me sooo upset because it's SOOOOOOOOOO ILLOGICAL.

Now if they explain it later in the game, like you were prevented from entering the planets atmosphere.

You were beamed aboard another ship, given air, knocked out, performed experiements on.

then they put you back down on the surface?

then lazarus project is like OH LOOK WE FOUND J00... But only a finger, THAT IS ALL WE NEED THOUGH... And a piece of brain.. It's still good!

I'm so upset, wtf ?!

Modifié par punt172o, 15 janvier 2011 - 11:21 .

[_Infiltrator]

Well, it could be potentially very, VERY easy to explain. Just look at the medicine/biology ~200 years ago. Try to imagine telling people from that time what we're doing today? Most of it would sound like magic to them.



Now try to imagine medicine +200 years from now. And imagine by that time that humanity has made contact with aliens/different planets with different resources that basically cause an explosion in medicinal branches and possibilities. From that point of view reviving doesn't seem that far fetched, at least to me.

[marshalleck]

didymos1120 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...
Nope. They dug themselves into a hole with this one. Mass Effect went from being science fiction to science fantasy with one stroke of Mac Walters' pen. 

I wasn't aware we knew who was responsible for that plot point.  Did he give an interview about it or something?

He's the head writer. He had to sign off on everything the rest of the writing team did, so either way the responsibility is ultimately his. I suppose you could say he's a poor team leader and didn't know what the other writers were doing, which could actually be a good explanation as well. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 15 janvier 2011 - 11:22 .