192 réponses à ce sujet

[_punt172o]

Infiltrator wrote...

Well, it could be potentially very, VERY easy to explain. Just look at the medicine/biology ~200 years ago. Try to imagine telling people from that time what we're doing today? Most of it would sound like magic to them.

Now try to imagine medicine +200 years from now. And imagine by that time that humanity has made contact with aliens/different planets with different resources that basically cause an explosion in medicinal branches and possibilities. From that point of view reviving doesn't seem that far fetched, at least to me.

Yea but this isn't basic revival.

A body is deprived of air and goes into a planets atmosphere, if you don't disintegrate then the impact alone... Man I just don't get it....

I bet you anything that ship must of prevented you from re-entry. They will probably explain it that way in ME3...

I almost want to wait until ME3 comes out before playing ME2.   If they EXPLAIN it, then I can bring myself to play ME2 and if they don't explain it, then I know the science has been taken out of this science fiction game.

[marshalleck]

I don't think they'll bother to explain anything. Maybe just lampshade the whole debacle with a few deadpan snarky jokes from Shepard and then move right along, if they even bother talking about it at all. That Shepard showed such an incredible degree of disinterest in his/her own resurrection suggests to me that it was nothing but a throw away plot device for resetting the character to level 1, and will be ignored.

Modifié par marshalleck, 15 janvier 2011 - 11:27 .

[Zulu_DFA]

punt172o wrote...

Yes the cold may preserve matter to a point but the vacuum alone... I don't get it... lol... How was this possible?

Is there a better explanation of how the Lazarus Project worked?  Like some kind of codex that goes into detail? A youtube video? Does someone know of some resource that explains this properly?

Right now, NONE of this makes any sense. Like absolutely NONE.   Not even .5% ....... I know this is a game, but this makes like NO SENSE AT ALL. lol

There is an explanation HOW SHEPARD SURVIVED THE CRASH. Either that, or "a wizard did it".

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 15 janvier 2011 - 11:34 .

[didymos1120]

marshalleck wrote...
 He's the head writer. He had to sign off on everything the rest of the writing team did, so either way the responsibility is ultimately his.

Actually, I find it very hard to buy the idea that he has final say.  That'd be Casey Hudson, who's been in charge of ME from the start.  You can be damn sure that if Casey had said "No", it would have never made it off the page.

[adam_grif]

IT WAS REALLY EXPENSIVE GUYS, STOP ASKING SO MANY HARD QUESTIONS. WHY DON'T YOU JUST NOT PLAY THE GAME IF YOU HATE IT SO MUCH?

[marshalleck]

didymos1120 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...
 He's the head writer. He had to sign off on everything the rest of the writing team did, so either way the responsibility is ultimately his.

Actually, I find it very hard to buy the idea that he has final say.  That'd be Casey Hudson, who's been in charge of ME from the start.  You can be damn sure that if Casey had said "No", it would have never made it off the page.

Yes, Hudson was in charge of the entire project. Walters was the lead writer, just like Christina Norman was the lead programmer. Each had a team that they supervised, and were in turn supervised and coordinated by Casey Hudson. There's usually a hierarchy to these things, but if you're suggesting this all broke down and became a case of the left hand not knowing what the right was doing and vice versa, that makes sense. 

[_Infiltrator]

punt172o wrote...

Infiltrator wrote...

Well, it could be potentially very, VERY easy to explain. Just look at the medicine/biology ~200 years ago. Try to imagine telling people from that time what we're doing today? Most of it would sound like magic to them.

Now try to imagine medicine +200 years from now. And imagine by that time that humanity has made contact with aliens/different planets with different resources that basically cause an explosion in medicinal branches and possibilities. From that point of view reviving doesn't seem that far fetched, at least to me.

Yea but this isn't basic revival.

A body is deprived of air and goes into a planets atmosphere, if you don't disintegrate then the impact alone... Man I just don't get it....

I bet you anything that ship must of prevented you from re-entry. They will probably explain it that way in ME3...

I almost want to wait until ME3 comes out before playing ME2.   If they EXPLAIN it, then I can bring myself to play ME2 and if they don't explain it, then I know the science has been taken out of this science fiction game.

Again who is to say you can't revive a half-desintegrated guy in 200 years within 2 years? 

[Babli]

Dont try to find logic in ME 2. You´ll save yourself a lot of headache.

[jojon2se]

I prefer to think there was no atmospheric entry,: the last explosion just happened to hurl Shepard into orbit, no matter what any apparent trajectory/corona effect in the cinematic suggests. That would leave you with a well preserved corpse, assuming the suit could still shield from radiation, well enough.

I'm imagining Shep's new fancy red glow eminates from some sort of super-medigel, which is busy replacing cells, one by one, copying the current state of the original (...with some sanity check/error handling algorithms). The cells need not be well preserved enough to renovate - just enough so that you can read relevant information from them - this includes neural chemical and cross-connection states.
Any added telomers would be a nice bonus, but I'd rather expect a shortened life expectancy, than the other way around...

EDIT: Wow, need to practice typing faster - a whole avalance of posts saying pretty much the same thing, while /me wrote this one..

Modifié par jojon2se, 15 janvier 2011 - 11:38 .

[marshalleck]

Infiltrator wrote...

punt172o wrote...

Infiltrator wrote...

Well, it could be potentially very, VERY easy to explain. Just look at the medicine/biology ~200 years ago. Try to imagine telling people from that time what we're doing today? Most of it would sound like magic to them.

Now try to imagine medicine +200 years from now. And imagine by that time that humanity has made contact with aliens/different planets with different resources that basically cause an explosion in medicinal branches and possibilities. From that point of view reviving doesn't seem that far fetched, at least to me.

Yea but this isn't basic revival.

A body is deprived of air and goes into a planets atmosphere, if you don't disintegrate then the impact alone... Man I just don't get it....

I bet you anything that ship must of prevented you from re-entry. They will probably explain it that way in ME3...

I almost want to wait until ME3 comes out before playing ME2.   If they EXPLAIN it, then I can bring myself to play ME2 and if they don't explain it, then I know the science has been taken out of this science fiction game.

Again who is to say you can't revive a half-desintegrated guy in 200 years within 2 years? 

Literally everything we know about biology and medicine. It ceases to be fiction grounded in science and becomes pure fantasy. 

[Gre3nham]

Quit your ****ing. Maybe the planets gravity was really low, maybe the Normandy entered the atmosphere before him, sheilding him, maybe he landed in a massive snow drift and was frozen, maybe he didn't even enter the planets atmosphere, maybe the collectors hired blue suns to clean up the Normandy wreak and they found him before he entered atmosphere.



There are so many possiblitys, there is a rational way of explaining it, they are all just really

unlikely.

But hey, so is they idea of a hyper advanced machine race in deep space waiting to kill everyone.

[adam_grif]

There are so many possiblitys, there is a rational way of explaining it, they are all just really



unlikely.

No, there are none. We know the planets gravity, atmosphere etc, and the SR1 crashing into the planet before you doesn't help you in any way. The terminal velocity of an 80 kg man-in-armor is such that impact with the ground will result in a human pancake, assuming you somehow survived reentering at orbital speeds (you wouldn't) and exposure to vacuum.



Being dead for more than 90 seconds or so means brain injury upon revival, being dead for several days before getting your body recovered means you've jumped off the deep end into cuckooville if you're expecting to be able to wake somebody up.

[didymos1120]

marshalleck wrote...
Yes, Hudson was in charge of the entire project. Walters was the lead writer, just like Christina Norman was the lead programmer. Each had a team that they supervised, and were in turn supervised and coordinated by Casey Hudson. There's usually a hierarchy to these things, but if you're suggesting this all broke down and became a case of the left hand not knowing what the right was doing and vice versa, that makes sense. 

No, what I'm saying is if we're going to blame Mac Walters because he "signs off" on everything that is story and was "ultimately responsible" for it, that's not a very tenable position because, well, he's not the guy who's got the final sign off and he's not the guy who's actually ultimately responsible.  I also find it strange tthat people seem to have this unspoken assumption that Hudson isn't involved in the story to any appreciable degree and just sort of let people do whatever.  This is why I asked if we actually did know the story behind the story, and who really did what.

[_punt172o]

I've been searching but I can't find any decent explanation for this major, catastrophic plot hole.



Does anyone know if bioware made any announcements on this?

[marshalleck]

punt172o wrote...

I've been searching but I can't find any decent explanation for this major, catastrophic plot hole.

Does anyone know if bioware made any announcements on this?

They did-- "It's the emotionally engaging dark second act!"

[rogermacarios]

Infiltrator wrote...

Well, it could be potentially very, VERY easy to explain. Just look at the medicine/biology ~200 years ago. Try to imagine telling people from that time what we're doing today? Most of it would sound like magic to them.

Now try to imagine medicine +200 years from now. And imagine by that time that humanity has made contact with aliens/different planets with different resources that basically cause an explosion in medicinal branches and possibilities. From that point of view reviving doesn't seem that far fetched, at least to me.

^This.

And not to play the game just because the ressurrect thing is like not to play CoD because you always recover after get shot almost to the death.

Just play the game as it is and you'll certainly enjoy it.

Modifié par rogermacarios, 15 janvier 2011 - 12:51 .

[adam_grif]

I don't even get how it was "darker" either. Colonies are vanishing? So what, colonies were getting wiped out left right and center in ME1. I went through to play ME1 for my final final (get to level 60) playthrough and I was shocked that more colonies got hit in that game than ME2, where it was supposed to be a focal point of the story. I counted Eden Prime, Feros, the one with the husks and the one with the Thorian creepers. Was there one with Rachni I missed? Maybe, don't really remember.



The 'verse isn't really darker either, the Genophage is retconned from a sterility plague into a "stabilizes population growth" plague, Cerberus was retconned into being "good at heart, if only our cells would stop going rogue and performing horrific experiments", and the stakes were lower - some kind of vague threat we know nothing about, who in retrospect never had the capability to take Earth anyway.

[marshalleck]

adam_grif wrote...
...and the stakes were lower - some kind of vague threat we know nothing about, who in retrospect never had the capability to take Earth anyway.

Are you kidding? Once the Collectors finished Collecting all the humans-are-special goo from our colonies in the terminus, they would have sent their Space Terminator to punch Arcturus Station in the face. The horror, the horror!

[_punt172o]

Ok, you know what. I think I figured it out.

I'm going to play the game for a bit and then post my hypothesis. It should be the best explanation out of EVERYONEs...... muahahha ..... oh man, I REALLY THINK i figured it out... .. The more I think about it, the more it makes PERFECT sense.....

Modifié par punt172o, 15 janvier 2011 - 12:57 .

[Weiser_Cain]

Shepard's body survives reentry dead but intact. After his body is recovered his body is rebuilt down to the cellular level.

Reentry is the biggest hurdle but perhaps he used biotics (maybe he rigged the mass driver in his guns)? As for the rest as long as his higher brain centers survive you should be able to restore his personality, memories and really bad dance moves.



All the arguments about what is medically possible seen to forget the prothean tech that jumped us ahead hundreds of years, plus Cerberus has undoubtedly been stealing tech from all the various aliens. If they can create a virus that can rewrite a species' and it's future offspring's genes while it's just standing there I think rehydrating a particularly famous commander isn't out of the question.

[Archontor]

Right i've got a crazy theory-crazy but workable:

N7 armour being a spec ops space suit has some nice added features these include

• A mass effect drive that not only projects the sheilds but can reduce a beings mass-like an energy parachute
• well it can already resist quite high temperatures to work as space suit-not re-entry hot but coupled with hte above it could prove usefull
• An onboard "greybox" being in the armour the main device is less likely to cause brain damadge but makes memory retreival much more plausible
  
• some sort of emergency cushioning gel (like in halo)
• onboard sensors to operate these features even in the event of being knocked out.

finaly shepard's body was recovered by the collectors, they cut him out of his armour (hence the peice on display in liara's apartment) this left the greybox in the armour for cerberus to retreive and prevented the collectors from getting to it.) the storage system that contained his body preserved it quite well for unknown purposes. 

this means that through a series of improbable but possible events one lucky person could tell the Reaper (and the Reapers) to ****** off
 

[matt-bassist]

i think all of you are desperately trying to wrap your heads around this from a present day viewpoint. Ultimately, this event happens over 200 years in the future, after humanity has joined an intergalactic civilisation, complete with huge relays that can teleport you millions of light years, biotic abilities like lifting things and creating shields, unlimited ammunition... not to mention a race of machines that kill all life every 50 000 years. And you guys are getting all worked up because Shepard died and his body crashed onto a planet? He was wearing armour, it's possible his biotic shields helped prevent serious damage.

Also, don't you wonder why Shepard keeps his old helmet as a trophy? Maybe because it's the thing that saved him. It protected his brain. Who knows.

You guys need to relax.

[marshalleck]

Sure, it works if you turn off your brain and don't spend even 30 seconds thinking about it. If that's the kind of entertainment you're into, more power to you.

[RVallant]

Simple, he's a robot.

[matt-bassist]

if this bothers you so much (which is clearly does marshalleck) then dont play the game. you remind me of the family guy episode where they say the one guy is as stubborn as a mule. just go and lie down, or play some other game. youre wasting your life away by complaining about this.