192 réponses à ce sujet

[Nerevar-as]

AC is even worse with genetic memory. Not only do your memories get written in your DNA, they pass on to your descendants. I hope they explain it as an effect of the Mcguffin in some game.

[Habelo]

You require a time machine to be able to ressurect shephard. Or something just as advanced in technology.

[Nozybidaj]

I would guess its already been mentioned, but the best explanation I've seen is: A wizard did it....

[Habelo]

The only logical reason for this is that shephard never really deid. That he blacked out before he hit the ground and cerberus came in and saved him (or someone else). Which i believe in. There are subtle plots pointing towards it, think i made a thread about it.



I dont believe that bioware intentionally writes bad ****. Unless EA makes em.

[Soapy010]

Yeah I don't get it, why doesn't Bioware tell how they did it? It would really help medical science.

[pcrisipm]

Soapy010 wrote...

Yeah I don't get it, why doesn't Bioware tell how they did it? It would really help medical science.

maybe waiting on some patent-related red tape... stuff like that is worth millions!!!

[Vaenier]

You were implanted with a plot hole and exposed to plot hole chemicals after your meat and tubes fell through a plot hole and remained intact.

The Lazarus project was an insult. Dont bother trying to figure it out.

[jeweledleah]

Halo Quea wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

I don't know if its been mentioned before, but..

FIFTH ELEMENT EFFECT.

remember that movie? where all they have left to rebuild the perfect being is a charred alien hand, and the perfect being they rebuild doesn't even look like that alien?

after being able to suspend your disbelief enough to accept that, it becomes much easier to accept that they could have rebuild Shepard with using a LOT of tech, over the course of years, rather then hours or even minutes like in Fifth Element

The tech isn't issue, it's never has been.   The problem is that Bioware felt it needed to KILL Shepard in the first few minutes of the game just to ease the great Alliance Hero into bed with Cerberus with as few explanations possible.   That Bioware doesn't bother to share any real information with us about the last two years seems to suggest that they never actually developed the backround story of the Lazarus Project beyond being a plot device that get's Shepard working directly for TIM.

As it's been said many times before around here, all it would have taken at the beginning of ME2 was for Shepard to investigate the crisis in the Terminus Systems, he then would have gone to the Council and the Alliance for help about the Collectors.  Being turned down or discredited by both, Shepard gets an offer from the TIM.  Shepard having no other options would accept the Cerberus offer.    But instead Bioware played the same game they do with ALL of their main characters.  It's truly amazing how much Bioware loves repeating themselves.  Death, coming back to life, amnesia or  reprogramming the main character with a new identity.   It's really getting OLD.

It's like other things with ME2.  Ashley sees my Shepard after two years of thinking he's dead and picks a FIGHT with him. She irrationally accuses him of being a traitor and Bioware gave us no dialogue options to  properly respond.  Ashley then later apologizes in an email of all things and sends us some poetry.   lol!    Why couldn't Ashley have just said,  "I can't go with you this time Skipper, Alliance has me on urgent business"  Instead Bioware sends Ashley into a paranoid rant that was completely unnecessary.   

I could be wrong but I think Bioware used TIM as a way of communicating with fans of ME1 who they knew would be hung up on some of their decisions for ME2.  TIM is constantly telling us to put our past behind us, forget old friends and alliances.   It's a bit insulting but message received.  Same thing with Lazarus, it wasn't important to Bioware to explain to us what it all meant, just that it got us working with Cerberus.

conciderign that this entire thread is a discussion of implausability of tech behind resurection of shepard, especialy with all his/her memories intact - I think that tech is a large part of the issue.  to which I say  - suspend your disbelief.  as for working with Cerberus, why, yes, they wanted a plot devise that would railroad us into it, part of the bioware's mission it seems is to show you that the world is full of shades of gray and that there is not pure good or pure evil (some paragon choices can be pretty douchy, and some of the renegade choices actualy come across as the nicer choice), and forcing you into working with Cerberus to show you that the organization is not full of 100% evil jerks is as good of a way as any.

reaction of VS actualy makes a lot of sence to me, at least if they were your LI in the first game (they relaly should have changed the dialogue more between romantic partners and just co workers)  concider this - VS might have spend a large chunk of those years you were missing dealing with so called rogue cerberus projects, in adition to the cells you have destroyed 2 years before.  for them to see you working with an enemy is almost as big of a shock as seeing you alive.  I tend to react in similar way to shocks of this magnitude.  "how could you???"

[Disquoveri]

This bothered me as well because Shepard's memories and personality could not have been preserved if his body had burned away during atmospheric reentry. Yes, they could clone him, but a clone would lack the same mind. Remember, nature is only 50% of the story. Your experiences make up the other 50% of your "self."



However, after reading this thread, I have come to a few conclusions:



- We find the N7 helmet on Alchera. This means that Shepard's armor survived the crash and, in turn, the majority of his body probably survived as well.



- Shepard's regeneration system in Mass Effect 2. As we all know, when Shepard gets injured in the line of fire, his health and shield regenerate. This did not occur in Mass Effect 1 (we had medi-gel instead) but one can still assume that there is some built-in medical suite in Shepard's old armor that could at least keep his body "fresh" until it was picked up.



- Jacob refers to Shepard looking like meat and tubes. This is very possible. The rest of his body could be damaged to hell and back as long as the brain survived in some manner.



- "In some manner" being the key phrase here. This was mentioned previously in this thread but it doesn't hurt to restate--what if Shepard had a grey box installed, like Kasumi's boyfriend? This would be a great blueprint for Cerberus to reconstruct Shepard's brain, even if it was destroyed entirely in the crash and only a few slices of bone were left.



These are just some ideas I've put together. I wish BioWare stopped the cut scene at Shepard losing air instead of showing atmospheric reentry. It would've created more dramatic tension and left the question of "What exactly happened?" way more wide open to account for the fact that BioWare can't explain the technology used to revive Shepard.

[KevShep]

There is only one explanation to why it is unclear of Shepards return, and that is becasue it is part of the main story not yet reveiled. I think I know why.
(Possible ME3 spoilers) and ME2 spoilers1

The reapers are ancient humans who have lost there humanity and became the reapers. The reapers (or ancient humans) are trying to get back there human form but there race has died out so there plan is to recreate themselves through evolution (which take millions of years). there waiting for them to return to harvest and wipe out all failed attempts. Sovereign- We impose order on the chaos of organic evolution- They would only do this if they know what there looking for.

facts
1 at the start when shepard is brought back his scars are the same color as the human genetic goo being puped into the reaper,(which we know has the ability to bring someone back to life, hint hint) which is why his return is down played(ME3 story plot) .

2 the reapers more than likely had the same mind set as Cerberus(Project Overlord) Taking a VI and connecting a human to it that way the VI is now a human AI which may be how the reapers got started in the first place and lost there humanity. 

3 You look at all the major races in the galaxy they all have one good trate that they are good at but humans are a jack of all trates which seems to be a part of the plot thats is also down played. Clue- humans are the fastest growing species in the galaxy. They got a counsel seat in 26 years and it takes the rest a few hundred years to do it.

[pcrisipm]

what really bugs me here is that everyone's got problems with the lazarus project and how it is impossible to bring someone (shepard) back to life (especially if the body is but a pile of meat -- jacob says shepard was 'meat & tubes' when he first saw him/her), BUT don't see any problems with the concepts of mass effect fields and biotics and the misterious element zero (atomic number is zero? come on!!).
what I think is strange is how you somehow buy into everything else in me2 and yet, somehow, find the lazarus project strange.
the way I see it, from the moment you accept that the whole science in the mass effect universe is warped at best and totally fabricated at worse and, well, bull, then anything can happen.
as some already pointed out -- MAGIC!

Modifié par pcrisipm, 20 janvier 2011 - 02:54 .

[Bluko]

pcrisipm wrote...

what really bugs me here is that everyone's got problems with the lazarus project and how it is impossible to bring someone (shepard) back to life (especially if the body is but a pile of meat -- jacob says shepard was 'meat & tubes' when he first saw him/her), BUT don't see any problems with the concepts of mass effect fields and biotics and the misterious element zero (atomic number is zero? come on!!).
what I think is strange is how you somehow buy into everything else in me2 and yet, somehow, find the lazarus project strange.
the way I see it, from the moment you accept that the whole science in the mass effect universe is warped at best and totally fabricated at worse and, well, bull, then anything can happen.
as some already pointed out -- MAGIC!

It's not so much the project that bothers me. It's that in the opening sequence we see Shepard falling towards the planet and starting to burn thru the atmosphere. Now as impressive as kinetic barriers and future space armor may be I don't think they are strong enough to allow atmospheric re-entry. Shepard should be dust. Think about it. Most asteroids burn up in our atmosphere and it takes a very big rock to actually land as even just a pebble on Earth.

Even though the planet Shepards is falling to has a thin atmosphere, it's pretty impossible there'd be anything left of him. Even if the atmosphere isn't that strong and Shepard's armor is incredibly heat resistant hitting the ground at terminal velocity would be extremely messy.

I would have been a lot more comfortable with the whole thing if Shepard had simply drifted off into orbit.

[Disquoveri]

pcrisipm wrote...

what really bugs me here is that everyone's got problems with the lazarus project and how it is impossible to bring someone (shepard) back to life (especially if the body is but a pile of meat -- jacob says shepard was 'meat & tubes' when he first saw him/her), BUT don't see any problems with the concepts of mass effect fields and biotics and the misterious element zero (atomic number is zero? come on!!).
what I think is strange is how you somehow buy into everything else in me2 and yet, somehow, find the lazarus project strange.
the way I see it, from the moment you accept that the whole science in the mass effect universe is warped at best and totally fabricated at worse and, well, bull, then anything can happen.
as some already pointed out -- MAGIC!

It's all about suspension of disbelief. Yeah, I know mass effect isn't a real force, but I can pretend it is while I play the game because it's a concept that's relatively fleshed out and doesn't seem to flat out contradict anything that I know for sure about reality. I mean, we don't even know how gravity works. Discovering another fundamental force isn't too out there. So yeah, suspension of disbelief works fine there (at least, for me it does).

However, with Shepard burning up, I absolutely know that it would be impossible to bring him back. You can't take a slice of bone and rebuild a person with the same mind that they had before. It's a glaring oversight.

[Big I]

Vaenier wrote...

You were implanted with a plot hole and exposed to plot hole chemicals after your meat and tubes fell through a plot hole and remained intact.
The Lazarus project was an insult. Dont bother trying to figure it out.

This. There will never be a satisfactory explanation for how it worked. Accept it, and move on.

[Obadiah]

Maybe Shepherd didn't impact on the planet, and instead skipped or sling-shotted through the atmosphere and ended up in orbit? Shep's body could more plausibly be rescued/resurrected from orbit instead of from a planet impact.

Alternatively, maybe in the future they discover some dimensional/non-physical aspect of memory that can be recovered given a properly tuned brain?

Truly, the whole resurrection plot as presented is so ridiculous I can't believe someone actually green-lit it.

Modifié par Obadiah, 20 janvier 2011 - 04:53 .

[JKoopman]

Obadiah wrote...

Maybe Shepherd didn't impact on the planet, and instead skipped or sling-shotted through the atmosphere and ended up in orbit? Shep's body could more plausibly be rescued/resurrected from orbit instead of from a planet impact.

Alternatively, maybe in the future they discover some dimensional/non-physical aspect of memory that can be recovered given a properly tuned brain?

Truly, the whole resurrection plot as presented is so ridiculous I can't believe someone actually green-lit it.

Well, the first suggestion can be refuted by the fact that you find your old N7 helmet on the planet's surface during the Normandy Crash Site mission.

Modifié par JKoopman, 20 janvier 2011 - 05:24 .

[Obadiah]

JKoopman wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

Maybe Shepherd didn't impact on the planet, and instead skipped or sling-shotted through the atmosphere and ended up in orbit? Shep's body could more plausibly be rescued/resurrected from orbit instead of from a planet impact.
...

Well, the first suggestion can be refuted by the fact that you find your old N7 helmet on the planet's surface during the Normandy Crash Site mission.

Sure, but maybe that was one of Shep's "other" helmets?

[Gavinthelocust]

A wizard biotic did it

[Admiral_Phoenix]

I think the best way to explain this is: 1. Shepard didn't go through reentry, he started falling but he simply went into orbit. In the opening cutscenes, you see that his bones are broken and his tissue is dead. This is probably caused by the explosion/suffocation. Reentry would have pretty much vaporized him. 2. The temperature of space (or lack thereof) kept Shepard's brain in a sort cryostasis, allowing him to be revived. 3. Miraculously, Shepard's brain itself did not sustain injury during the destruction of the normandy later events before he gets revived.

As far as I know, these three things don't go against anything said in the game (Miranda/Wilson's logs, etc.). Honestly, I'd buy this a lot faster than I'd believe in element 0 lol.

The only other possibility I can think of is that Cerberus somehow managed to strip Shepard's dead brain of memories/information and program it into a new cloned brain in a cloned body. I think that's even more of a long shot though.

Modifié par Admiral_Phoenix, 20 janvier 2011 - 06:10 .

[Destroy Raiden_]

But he is missing all bones below the knee on one leg so where did his leg go if he was in orbit? And every bone in his body is shattered that wouldn't happen if he didn't hit the ground sense all large debris fell into the planet.

[CroGamer002]

Why can anyone just STFU about this?

It's SF, every SF plot has something that is never explained and it is vital to main plot.

[Aimi]

Mesina2 wrote...

Why can anyone just STFU about this?
It's SF, every SF plot has something that is never explained and it is vital to main plot.

Threads like this are vital to the "ME1's plot and lore were soooo much better than ME2's" myth.