54 réponses à ce sujet

[macayle]

i have foudn it rather useful myself if the mage is OOM transform if she si the last one standing it comes in handy as well

[Evilsod]

I said this in the spoilers section...



The whole specialisation thing just seemed utterly wasted. Spider-Bear-Swarm-MasterShifter. I mean seriously... its laughable, its just the worst example shows best how much better it coudl've and should've been. Its not a specialisation, its a sidetrack for your spell/talent points and a minor stat boost half the time. A few of them have note-worthy skills but none of them are really a specialisation.



What Shapeshifting in particular should've been was similar to Shales whole skill tree. A few different forms available that you buffed up by specialising in 1 form in particular. There was so much more potential in them all.



I remember using Bearform at Redcliffe, i honestly don't know why.

[anonygoose]

My thoughtline was "I bet the bear is awesome when you get the master shapeshifter skill". I was wrong.

[Teemu733]

If you could cast spells while shapeshifted, the specialization would be much better. Probably too good. How about access to all spells but at a higher cost?

[Docjam]

What they really need to do is give each form a lot more skills.. at least 5-6 skills + overwhelm.. only 1-2 skills + overwhelm just doesn't cut it.



A bear should be able to tank as well as a sword and shield warrior, gaining a threat buff that's sustained, a roar/taunt, and some melee skills including some sort of aoe swipe and a charge..

[demireamer]

i have done much testing on shapeshifter, but maybe one would need to raise Strength, dex and Constitution? or is it based on spellpower like a AW with a melee weapon?


edit: switch "sword" to "melee weapon"

Modifié par demireamer, 14 novembre 2009 - 01:27 .

[natetk]

Yea I was wondering if you created a mage that you were gonna make a shapeshifter, if you just add to str/con yea you would be extremely weak until you get high enough to use shapeshifting, but it might be awesome.

[PatT2]

If only the shapeshifter offered the forms you get in the fade. Well, all but mouse. But the others. Shapeshifting in the fade saved my life. But then, the forms had useful things like cone of cold and that crushing prison.



I was truly hoping for something on that line and took and and found a waste of ten seconds casting time. If they can implement it in the fade, they can do it in the rest of the story.

[Parhasard]

This should be in the spoiler section. My game has been epicly spoiled.

[menasure]

Parhasard wrote...

This should be in the spoiler section. My game has been epicly spoiled.

do not worry, nothing can prepare you for the quest in the fade. it is a whole game on its own.

[demireamer]

that might be my fav boss fight, alot of fun

[0LunarEclipse0]

You guys are forgetting additionally stat effect, swarm was wonderful if low on health and OOM. Spider??? I poisoned so many bosses and put morrigan back to spell casting. It was so useful.

[Kelston]

Gfan24 wrote...

Unlike the other specialization, shapeshift is not meant to be used in every fight. If is meant to fill in for either a fallen ally or when you run out of mana.

Spider-crowd control
Bear-Tank
Swarm-when your low on health and need to avoid being hit

They are utility spells.

The problem with using shapeshifting as utility spells as you mention is the cast time of shapeshifting.

If a party member dies and you need crowd control, you need it now, not 2 seconds from now when the cast animation finishes. If one died and you needed a tank, you need the tank now, not 2 seconds later because that's your healer's head. And again, if you want to avoid being hit because you are low hp, casting swarm form doesn't help you avoid being hit.

Overall, it seems like it's something to do when you are out of mana and that's fairly bad. You could have went Blood mage instead and started tapping into your health reserves to solve that issue. Shapeshifting is just too clunky and provides nothing huge to make up for the lost access to all your spells.

Modifié par Kelston, 14 novembre 2009 - 08:39 .

[DM Veil]

I like to think that in games like DA:O it's more about having a fun character and not about min/maxing. That is to say that having a really powerful Arcane Warrior/Spirit Healer is certainly fun to play through the game with, but the next play through you might play a character that is weaker and provides different challenges to beat. Sometimes the weaker specializations can be the most fun because they force you to approach situations in a way that isn't just "burn them all, let the Maker sort 'em out."

[Kelston]

DM Veil wrote...

I like to think that in games like DA:O it's more about having a fun character and not about min/maxing. That is to say that having a really powerful Arcane Warrior/Spirit Healer is certainly fun to play through the game with, but the next play through you might play a character that is weaker and provides different challenges to beat. Sometimes the weaker specializations can be the most fun because they force you to approach situations in a way that isn't just "burn them all, let the Maker sort 'em out."

But min/maxing is fun. Intentionally handicapping yourself with a poorly executed, clunky mechanic like shapeshifting isn't fun.

Sure, you could make the game extremely challenging by playing without a keyboard and using your foot to control your mouse, but the reason shapeshifter is useless and not fun is because it is useless and not fun. Yes, it's not a strong build, but it's strength or lack thereof isn't what makes it problematic.

If something is hitting me in the face and I need to swap to the bear form so I don't die, I need to keep getting punched in the face waiting for the bear form cast time and animation to finish instead of running and then jumping into an animal form while running. So instead of being an awesome bear, i'm a red spot on the ground that used to be a mage thinking about bears.

It doesn't help that all the animal forms have like one ability and auto attack. So basically you went from a mage with a 20 ability arsenal to a bear with 1 ability.

Modifié par Kelston, 15 novembre 2009 - 12:34 .

[g37spot]

So... I suppose the continuation of the subject should be... when is the first patch???

should it decrease cast time for shapeshift? y/n?

Allow more spells while in a different form? y/n?

Increase Defense greatly for say Bear form? y/n?

Allow a faster web spit, crowd control casting? y/n?

Yeah or nah for the bioware folks, ppl

[Ezralyn]

It dose not scale of magic that's for sure. 13 damage in bear form with 70 magic. 50-70 damage in bear form with high str & dex. You have to gimp the "mage" side of your character if you want transformations to be worthwhile, and since they have a long cool down, modest cast time & don't allow you to heal it's not worth it.

[1varangian]

So Shapeshifters benefit from high STR/DEX but Arcane Warriors do not. Shouldn't the whole point of changing shape be to turn a weakling into something powerful? And AW's who are stuck in a humanoid body should actually have some STR of their own to wield heavier weapons.



It seems the concepts of AW and shifter are reversed. I hope they didn't reverse it just for the sake of being different from DnD. Because now we have a lackluster Shapeshifter and a godlike Arcane Warrior.

[Ezralyn]

It's supposed to be based off spellpower, at least thats what the game tells you. Anyway with that level of Str & Dex you could fit massive armor anyway, although you would lose a fair bit of DPS if you want to get at least 30 points in magic, and i doubt you would have much left for Will, or Con.

Just too hard to pull off compared to AW, and there's still the problem with not being able to use pots while in form.

Modifié par Ezralyn, 15 novembre 2009 - 02:15 .

[1varangian]

Shouldn't it be like this.



Shapeshifter

Pros - potential to turn a physically weak mage into a melee monster + special abilities

Cons - no spellcasting or potion drinking in non-humanoid forms



Arcane Warrior

Pros - Counters a mages biggest weakness and makes him useful in combat, does not interfere with spellcasting

Cons - lessens potency of spellcasting as you have to spread stats more



Currently in DA:O Arcane Warriors do not have a weakness so picking the specialization is a no brainer really. And since AW does what Shapeshifter does, only better, shifters become obsolete.



What I'd like to know is how set in stone all these abilities and class balance are. Are Bioware going to alter the game in patches to improve it or do they consider everything "tested and working".

[Xanrok1]

Shapeshifting should be like -
---SPOILER---
When in the Dream realm fighting the sloth deamon - there are 4 forms:
- Mouse
- Burning man
- Spirit
- Golem
Those are awsome transforms!!!!!!!!! When I had them I forgot I was a mage! Golem is the best!
---END---
Now thats what transforms should be like - The ones awailable are useles - I am sory I took the specilazation.

Modifié par Xanrok1, 15 novembre 2009 - 02:34 .

[Varenus Luckmann]

I hear a lot of whining about Shapeshifting, but I honestly found it rather useful.

[Triplanetary]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

I hear a lot of whining about Shapeshifting, but I honestly found it rather useful.

What was your general strategy in using it? Because if there's a play style that makes shapeshifter useful, I'd love to hear about it (being sincere here).