586 réponses à ce sujet

[Pro_Consul]

Arijharn wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I am so sick of people saying that blowing up the base means your playing it like your going to win regardless.

There are pragmatic and sensible and indeed survalistic! reasons for blowing it up.

HOW. ARE. THEY. PRAGMATIC?
*snip* {many arguments balancing ignorance of Reaper tech vs. threat of Cerberus misuse}

Uhh.. dude. I ask the question again: do you have a plan for studying all that technological awesomeness without all your scientists being indoctrinated? When has anyone we ever heard of been able to study a Reaper facility and NOT ended up as a husk? And how many husks have we blown away personally who USED TO BE scientists?

Modifié par Pro_Consul, 11 février 2011 - 06:45 .

[Pro_Consul]

Ryzaki wrote...

That I felt was stupid. Why on earth would they flip flop so fast? People who really should've had no trouble with keeping the base: Mordin, Morinth, Garrus, Miranda

And yet for some reason they don't? That boggles the mind. 

I could understand Legion (after all his stance is that the Geth refused to use Reaper tech and wanted to build their own). But the rest of them make no sense. 

I thought it made sense for Mordin. He was always staunchly against any kind of scientific experimentation on live subjects, and what that base is built to do is several orders of magnitude worse. Garrus I can understand for basically the same reason. But Miranda should be the loudest voice on the scene in favor of keeping the base. Her attitude in the game is totally inconsistent.

[jbblue05]

Pro_Consul wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Bioware forces Shepard to be pro-destroy the base to a degree.  Even if you keep it Shepard is like "this is wrong, but we have to do this" and Shepard is hostile towards TIm during the debrief and your entire squad hates your guts

But I thought that was reasonable, linking destruction of the base to the paragon angle. After all, there are two primary things that base is built to do:

1. Render millions of sapient people into goo.

2. Give birth to baby Reapers.

Either of those alone is enough reason to get a Paragon worked up about allowing the base to exist. Both taken together should have a full-para Shep foaming at the mouth and wishing for a bigger bomb to blow it up with.

I didn't feel like a Renegade when I kept the base   I felt like a Paragon who had to briefly compromise his morals.
I wanted to brofist TIM not be hostile towards him

[Hanar Shakespeare]

Pro_Consul wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I am so sick of people saying that blowing up the base means your playing it like your going to win regardless.

There are pragmatic and sensible and indeed survalistic! reasons for blowing it up.

HOW. ARE. THEY. PRAGMATIC?
*snip* {many arguments balancing ignorance of Reaper tech vs. threat of Cerberus misuse}

Uhh.. dude. I ask the question again: do you have a plan for studying all that technological awesome without all your scientists being indoctrinated? When has anyone we ever heard of been able to study a Reaper facility and NOT ended up as a husk? And how many husks have we blown away personally who USED TO BE scientists?

To me, indoctrination is not the only risk of working in the Reaper facility. Were someone to press the wrong button, wouldn't the ship send a distress signal to other Reapers? That would endager the ship and, least of The Illusive Man's concerns, the people working on the station or planet said ship resides in.

[Ryzaki]

Then of course is the chance the CB itself was one giant Xanthos gambit on the Reapers part that the player walked right into.

[James2912]

Billions of people are going to be dying soon the last thing I'm worried about is a few scientists getting indoctrinated. I am sure an elaborate foolproof plan could be created to guard against indoctrination. I need to know how to destroy effin reapers a base that builds reapers will have blueprints! Blueprints can be used to show weaknesses or at least show ways to recreate Reaper weapons and shields.

[Ryzaki]

James2912 wrote...

Billions of people are going to be dying soon the last thing I'm worried about is a few scientists getting indoctrinated. I am sure an elaborate foolproof plan could be created to guard against indoctrination. I need to know how to destroy effin reapers a base that builds reapers will have blueprints! Blueprints can be used to show weaknesses or at least show ways to recreate Reaper weapons and shields.

 

What exactly was Shep holding at the end. Cookies? 

It looked like a Reaper blueprint to me. And if I'm not mistaken that Reaper looked like Harbinger. 

EDI scanned the HR enough to know how it was hooked up, how it could fall, and I'm pretty sure she told Shep the weakspots. She may not have gotten as much data as she would've if Shep had stayed (not to mention she wouldn't do the data mining once the base was handed to Cerberus *anyways* because She's with Shep.) but they didn't leave emptyhanded. 

BTW Sovie's cannon was the basis for the Thannix. And Sovie certainly wasn't in one piece when they made that. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 11 février 2011 - 06:58 .

[Pro_Consul]

Hanar Shakespeare wrote...

To me, indoctrination is not the only risk of working in the Reaper facility. Were someone to press the wrong button, wouldn't the ship send a distress signal to other Reapers? That would endager the ship and, least of The Illusive Man's concerns, the people working on the station or planet said ship resides in.

Another good point. I can just imagine a repeat of the whole Reaper IFF-virus thing where the base locks itself down and calls for reinforcements to recapture it. Except this time the Collector cruiser doesn't have to transport all the captives before feeding them into the Reaperizer for gooification. And all Sheps work and losses in capturing the base go down the toilet because the base ends up back in their hands anyway.

[Pro_Consul]

James2912 wrote...

Billions of people are going to be dying soon the last thing I'm worried about is a few scientists getting indoctrinated. I am sure an elaborate foolproof plan could be created to guard against indoctrination. I need to know how to destroy effin reapers a base that builds reapers will have blueprints! Blueprints can be used to show weaknesses or at least show ways to recreate Reaper weapons and shields.

That bolded bit is certainly in character with your avatar, dude.

Again, do you have a plan for getting all that info before your scientists get indoctrinated? If not, then your plan cannot work. Your now-indoctrinated scientists can just fabricate false intelligence to feed you about Reaper design "weaknesses", then report that they need a larger team to help retrieve plans for some amazing, jumboniously destructive weapon. You send more scientists. They get indoctrinated, too. And so on....

What good does it do to try to research the technology in that base if the base itself ends up controlling all the people you send in there? Again I ask, when have we ever heard of anyone researching active Reaper facilities and NOT getting indoctrinated as a result? We are batting .000 on this one.

Insanity: repeating the same behavior while expecting different results.

[Tennessee88]

Pro_Consul wrote...

Hanar Shakespeare wrote...

To me, indoctrination is not the only risk of working in the Reaper facility. Were someone to press the wrong button, wouldn't the ship send a distress signal to other Reapers? That would endager the ship and, least of The Illusive Man's concerns, the people working on the station or planet said ship resides in.

Another good point. I can just imagine a repeat of the whole Reaper IFF-virus thing where the base locks itself down and calls for reinforcements to recapture it. Except this time the Collector cruiser doesn't have to transport all the captives before feeding them into the Reaperizer for gooification. And all Sheps work and losses in capturing the base go down the toilet because the base ends up back in their hands anyway.

The Reapers obviously know you have the base already via Harbringer. The strategic value of the base becomes a non-issue anyways in the face of a full Reaper fleet. This is a war to prevent genocide on a scale so massive it goes beyond human comprehension. Think about the ME3 trailer, 9,000,000,000 dead in the first week. Risking scientist for a slimmer of hope is going to be one of the easier choices to make in this war. Why should TIM care about the well being of a few if it is to save the many?

[Hanar Shakespeare]

James2912 wrote...

Pwner1323 wrote...

James2912 wrote...

Basically TIM is the figurehead who does all the paperwork I get to do all the cool stuff!

My Shepard is sick of fighting. And you're a racist xenophobe who I hope gets killed in ME3 when all races turn against you.

Why thank you! If there  is multiplayer I will see you on the battlefield 

Please don't give Bioware any ideas.

[jbblue05]

Pro_Consul wrote...


Again, do you have a plan for getting all that info before your scientists get indoctrinated? If not, then your plan cannot work. Your now-indoctrinated scientists can just fabricate false intelligence to feed you about Reaper design "weaknesses", then report that they need a larger team to help retrieve plans for some amazing, jumboniously destructive weapon. You send more scientists. They get indoctrinated, too. And so on....

What good does it do to try to research the technology in that base if the base itself ends up controlling all the people you send in there? Again I ask, when have we ever heard of anyone researching active Reaper facilities and NOT getting indoctrinated as a result? We are batting .000 on this one.

Insanity: repeating the same behavior while expecting different results.

Its likely their are no indoctrinated devices the CB.
If their were dragon's teeth in the CB TIM would have them destroyed or avoided
if something goes wrong with the base it can always be destroyed later. And that's IF something goes wrong.

With the stake of trillions of lives are at risk you have to whatever you can to gain an advantage, you need a plan not a bunch of sliippery slopes and second-guessing.

Even with the losses at the Derelict Reaper it was stilll a Success the Cerberus team recovered the IFF for Shepard. 

[James2912]

Pro_Consul wrote...

James2912 wrote...

Billions of people are going to be dying soon the last thing I'm worried about is a few scientists getting indoctrinated. I am sure an elaborate foolproof plan could be created to guard against indoctrination. I need to know how to destroy effin reapers a base that builds reapers will have blueprints! Blueprints can be used to show weaknesses or at least show ways to recreate Reaper weapons and shields.

That bolded bit is certainly in character with your avatar, dude.

Again, do you have a plan for getting all that info before your scientists get indoctrinated? If not, then your plan cannot work. Your now-indoctrinated scientists can just fabricate false intelligence to feed you about Reaper design "weaknesses", then report that they need a larger team to help retrieve plans for some amazing, jumboniously destructive weapon. You send more scientists. They get indoctrinated, too. And so on....

What good does it do to try to research the technology in that base if the base itself ends up controlling all the people you send in there? Again I ask, when have we ever heard of anyone researching active Reaper facilities and NOT getting indoctrinated as a result? We are batting .000 on this one.

Insanity: repeating the same behavior while expecting different results.

I switch out the scientists. no scientists works at the base for more than a week at a time. I build a base away from the Reaper base and fill it with psychologists who will  study the scientists for indoctrination for an two hours after their shift at the collector base.
Another idea  would be to just remotely use robots to study the base. The scientists would control the robots. 

Really when you get a bunch of smart people in a room I bet they can come up with even better ideas. 

[Hanar Shakespeare]

James2912 wrote...

Pro_Consul wrote...

James2912 wrote...

Billions of people are going to be dying soon the last thing I'm worried about is a few scientists getting indoctrinated. I am sure an elaborate foolproof plan could be created to guard against indoctrination. I need to know how to destroy effin reapers a base that builds reapers will have blueprints! Blueprints can be used to show weaknesses or at least show ways to recreate Reaper weapons and shields.

That bolded bit is certainly in character with your avatar, dude.

Again, do you have a plan for getting all that info before your scientists get indoctrinated? If not, then your plan cannot work. Your now-indoctrinated scientists can just fabricate false intelligence to feed you about Reaper design "weaknesses", then report that they need a larger team to help retrieve plans for some amazing, jumboniously destructive weapon. You send more scientists. They get indoctrinated, too. And so on....

What good does it do to try to research the technology in that base if the base itself ends up controlling all the people you send in there? Again I ask, when have we ever heard of anyone researching active Reaper facilities and NOT getting indoctrinated as a result? We are batting .000 on this one.

Insanity: repeating the same behavior while expecting different results.

I switch out the scientists. no scientists works at the base for more than a week at a time. I build a base away from the Reaper base and fill it with psychologists who will  study the scientists for indoctrination for an two hours after their shift at the collector base.
Another idea  would be to just remotely use robots to study the base. The scientists would control the robots. 

Really when you get a bunch of smart people in a room I bet they can come up with even better ideas. 

Like David?

[Tennessee88]

James2912 wrote...

Pro_Consul wrote...

James2912 wrote...

Billions of people are going to be dying soon the last thing I'm worried about is a few scientists getting indoctrinated. I am sure an elaborate foolproof plan could be created to guard against indoctrination. I need to know how to destroy effin reapers a base that builds reapers will have blueprints! Blueprints can be used to show weaknesses or at least show ways to recreate Reaper weapons and shields.

That bolded bit is certainly in character with your avatar, dude.

Again, do you have a plan for getting all that info before your scientists get indoctrinated? If not, then your plan cannot work. Your now-indoctrinated scientists can just fabricate false intelligence to feed you about Reaper design "weaknesses", then report that they need a larger team to help retrieve plans for some amazing, jumboniously destructive weapon. You send more scientists. They get indoctrinated, too. And so on....

What good does it do to try to research the technology in that base if the base itself ends up controlling all the people you send in there? Again I ask, when have we ever heard of anyone researching active Reaper facilities and NOT getting indoctrinated as a result? We are batting .000 on this one.

Insanity: repeating the same behavior while expecting different results.

I switch out the scientists. no scientists works at the base for more than a week at a time. I build a base away from the Reaper base and fill it with psychologists who will  study the scientists for indoctrination for an two hours after their shift at the collector base.
Another idea  would be to just remotely use robots to study the base. The scientists would control the robots. 

Really when you get a bunch of smart people in a room I bet they can come up with even better ideas. 

They got indoctrinated, and we got the Reaper IFF. Obviously there are benefits to be had despite the loss of life. Also, I think it is dangerous to assume that the Collector Base is capable of indoctrination. Indoctrination has always involved a Reaper and the indoctrinated are always slaves to the direct wishes of the Reaper. 

Regardless there are easy ways to solve this problem including simply observing the crew by camera. At the very least it allows you to study indoctrination.

[Whatever42]

Is there any reasonable chance that valuable technology can be retreived from the base?
Will Cerberus use that technology against the Reapers?
Would that technology help in any meaningful way against the Reapers?

Now in gameplay terms, we all know that we can defeat the Reapers without it. We know that keeping the base will mean a stronger Cerberus at the end of the game. If you're a renegade, fighting for a strong, self-sufficient humanity then that's good. If you're an "internationalist" then that's bad.

However, if you're roleplaying, then I think you have to ask yourself the top 3 questions.If you answered yes to all 3 of those questions, you should keep the base. If you answer no (even if its just roleplaying your Shepard) then blowing it up is the obvious choice, because we all know that there will be consquences to keeping it.

Now, roleplaying my paragade Shepard, I have to answer yes. The  Reapers are the largest and most immediate threat. The aftermath is secondary.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 11 février 2011 - 07:24 .

[Pro_Consul]

Tennessee88 wrote...

The Reapers obviously know you have the base already via Harbringer.

Exactly my point. And their track record suggest that they LOVE building in all sorts of booby traps to prevent "lesser" races from reverse-engineering their tech or using it against them. Indoctrination built into nearly everything; ship-disabling virus AND auto-distress beacon built into Reaper IFF; counter intrusion systems built to take over any computer which tries to network with theirs (thankfully EDI was able to handle this one without getting data-squished). There is every reason to think that this base will NOT yield any desirable results, and no reason to think it can be defended against recapture by the enemy, particularly since it will likely be actively helping the enemy when they arrive to do the recapturing. And it may even be able to recapture itself by simply indoctrinating everyone inside or in close proximity. Again, the risk/reward factor is hopelessly skewed in the wrong direction. In keeping the base intact it is far more likely that Shep will end up ceding new advantages to the Reapers (and lose a lot of people in the process) than that he will ever extract any advantages for his own side.

Tennessee88 wrote...

Risking scientist for a slimmer of hope is going to be one of the easier choices to make in this war. Why should TIM care about the well being of a few if it is to save the many?

Why should Shep care about the chance of gaining some tech, particularly when it is so vanishingly small, when there is a much bigger chance that the enemy will retake the facility before any such tech can be retrieved? It is simple choice: destroy the base now while you have the chance, or try to defend it with hopelessly inadequate forces and likely see it recaptured by the enemy before you can get anything useful from it.

[Inverness Moon]

Ryzaki wrote...

chapa3 wrote...

How do we know that the base is completely unsalvageable? The only thing that can be fairly guarranteed to be destroyed was the Reaper birthing chamber. There has to be salvageable tech after the explosion. Question is, how much?

Apparently according to the comics (I'm not 100% on this) it was enough for TIM to try to make a super soldier of some kind that backfired astronomically. 

Grayson was not an attempt to make a super soldier, it was an attempt to figure out a way to combat the reapers, something people who blow the base up don't seem to be concerned about. Maybe you should get sure about it first before you bring it up.

[James2912]

Hanar Shakespeare wrote...

James2912 wrote...

Pro_Consul wrote...

James2912 wrote...

Billions of people are going to be dying soon the last thing I'm worried about is a few scientists getting indoctrinated. I am sure an elaborate foolproof plan could be created to guard against indoctrination. I need to know how to destroy effin reapers a base that builds reapers will have blueprints! Blueprints can be used to show weaknesses or at least show ways to recreate Reaper weapons and shields.

That bolded bit is certainly in character with your avatar, dude.

Again, do you have a plan for getting all that info before your scientists get indoctrinated? If not, then your plan cannot work. Your now-indoctrinated scientists can just fabricate false intelligence to feed you about Reaper design "weaknesses", then report that they need a larger team to help retrieve plans for some amazing, jumboniously destructive weapon. You send more scientists. They get indoctrinated, too. And so on....

What good does it do to try to research the technology in that base if the base itself ends up controlling all the people you send in there? Again I ask, when have we ever heard of anyone researching active Reaper facilities and NOT getting indoctrinated as a result? We are batting .000 on this one.

Insanity: repeating the same behavior while expecting different results.

I switch out the scientists. no scientists works at the base for more than a week at a time. I build a base away from the Reaper base and fill it with psychologists who will  study the scientists for indoctrination for an two hours after their shift at the collector base.
Another idea  would be to just remotely use robots to study the base. The scientists would control the robots. 

Really when you get a bunch of smart people in a room I bet they can come up with even better ideas. 

Like David?

Nope I'm talking about controlling mechs like NASA controls robots via remote controller. It well within our current technology let alone the ME time period.

[Ryzaki]

Inverness Moon wrote...


 As 

Ryzaki wrote...

chapa3 wrote...

How do we know that the base is completely unsalvageable? The only thing that can be fairly guarranteed to be destroyed was the Reaper birthing chamber. There has to be salvageable tech after the explosion. Question is, how much?

Apparently according to the comics (I'm not 100% on this) it was enough for TIM to try to make a super soldier of some kind that backfired astronomically. 

Grayson was not an attempt to make a super soldier, it was an attempt to figure out a way to combat the reapers, something people who blow the base up don't seem to be concerned about. Maybe you should get sure about it first before you bring it up.

Thanks for the correction. 

The fact that it backfired due to Cerberus not understanding the meaning of safety protocols and common sense still stands however. 

*reads wiki*

And would you look at that. Apparently its smarter to study reaper tech when its nearly destroyed and harmless.    

As an apology for my misinformation here's a quote from the wiki. 

In Mass Effect: Retribution, Grayson, alias Paul Johnson, is on Omega, working as an enforcer for Aria T'Loak, and is also involved with Aria's daughter, Liselle. Under Aria's orders, he steals a shipment of red sand from the Talons, a turian gang who have become more prominent after a recent shakeup within Omega's underworld. He has a crisis of conscience, as he does not want to give the red sand to Aria, and is fearful of relapsing into his old addictions. He is found by Cerberus operative Kai Leng, who reports his whearabouts to the Illusive Man. Grayson is soon kidnapped and implanted with Reaper technology, as part of an experiment to study indoctrination. Though the Illusive Man had planned to kill Grayson before he became too dangerous, an attack by the Turian Hierarchy gave Grayson a chance to escape. As the indoctrination grew more powerful, he felt a prisoner in his own body. The indoctrinated Grayson eventually made it to Jon Grissom Academy, as the Reapers were interested in the biotic potential of its students, with Leng, Dr. Sanders, and Admiral Anderson in hot pursuit. Grayson was mortally wounded when Anderson blasted him with a shotgun at point blank range. Kai Leng then executes Grayson with two bullets to the head. Afterward, Anderson and Sanders make plans to autopsy Grayson's body and study the Reaper technology within him in the hopes of learning how to fight the Reapers.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 11 février 2011 - 08:01 .

[Pro_Consul]

jbblue05 wrote...

Its likely their are no indoctrinated devices the CB.

Based on what? Every single Reaper-tech facility or ruin that we have heard of to date had indoctrination tech built into it. Why would this one be different?

If their were dragon's teeth in the CB TIM would have them destroyed or avoided

Dragon's teeth are for making husks. They are not the only indoctrination tech we have seen.

if something goes wrong with the base it can always be destroyed later. And that's IF something goes wrong.

How? If the base is recaptured by the Collectors and your forces defending it wiped out, probably with active help from the booby trapped base itself, how can we possibly be sure of getting a second chance to destroy it? And when was anyone EVER able to investigate active Reaper facilities without something truly abominable and deadly going wrong?

With the stake of trillions of lives are at risk you have to whatever you can to gain an advantage, you need a plan not a bunch of sliippery slopes and second-guessing.

It is not second guessing to analyze the risks and their odds of happening and compare them to the potential rewards and your chances of realizing those rewards. That is just responsible risk analysis. If the risks outweigh the rewards, then it is in your best interest NOT to proceed.

Even with the losses at the Derelict Reaper it was stilll a Success the Cerberus team recovered the IFF for Shepard. 

Really? That IFF itself was booby trapped. It disabled the first ship they hooked it to, even AFTER they took measures to try to make it safe, and then it called for retrieval by the Collectors who showed up and carted off nearly every single crew member for gooification. The only reason it wasn't a complete disaster is that SR2 had an illegal AI aboard and Joker was desperate enough to unshackle it and give it complete control of the ship. But you see the pattern I hope. A 37 million year old DEAD Reaper and it still had active indoctrination up and running; and the one and only item of useful tech taken from that dead Reaper was itself booby trapped to screw over the first fool who tried to use it. Booby traps within booby traps; contingencies for their backup plans; every diabolical precaution taken to prevent anyone turning their own tech against them. That is what we have every reason to expect to find on the CB, except it should be MUCH worse.Because this time we are not talking about a 37 million old derelict but an active and fully maintained Reaper reproductive plant, the single most important kind of facility there is when it comes to Reapers continuing their own race.

Modifié par Pro_Consul, 11 février 2011 - 08:02 .

[Inverness Moon]

Ryzaki wrote...

Thanks for the correction. 

The fact that it backfired due to Cerberus not understanding the meaning of safety protocols and common sense still stands however. 

Your first bit of misinformation and now this is really irritating me. If you're not sure about what you're talking about then don't bring it up.

The project backfired because the turians attacked the base and let Grayson escape before he could be killed. It's quite obvious if you read the book that no one there was ignorant of the danger. They had appropriate protocols in place, and instructions personally from TIM, to deal with Grayson. Unfortunately they didn't have protocols in place to deal with an attack by turians.

A quote from TIM: "If you see anything unusual or unexpected—if you have any doubt or uncertainty at all—exterminate him immediately. I’d rather see the entire project fail than risk having this thing we’ve created break free. Do I make myself clear?"

Kai Leng could have done it still, even after the turians attacked, but he chose to save TIM instead of killing Grayson, which will probably be better when ME3 rolls around.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 11 février 2011 - 08:09 .

[Pro_Consul]

James2912 wrote...

Nope I'm talking about controlling mechs like NASA controls robots via remote controller. It well within our current technology let alone the ME time period.

Admirably cautious approach to researching this base. It will greatly extend the time required to accomplish anything, but it has the potential to be doable. And when has Cerberus ever shown evidence that "admirably cautious" was a phrase they even understood, let alone knew how to apply?

[Ryzaki]

Inverness Moon wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Thanks for the correction. 

The fact that it backfired due to Cerberus not understanding the meaning of safety protocols and common sense still stands however. 

Your first bit of misinformation and now this is really irritating me. If you're not sure about what you're talking about then don't bring it up.

The project backfired because the turians attacked the base and let Grayson escape before he could be killed. It's quite obvious if you read the book that no one there was ignorant of the danger. They had appropriate protocols in place, and instructions personally from TIM, to deal with Grayson. Unfortunately they didn't have protocols in place to deal with an attack by turians.

A quote from TIM: "If you see anything unusual or unexpected—if you have any doubt or uncertainty at all—exterminate him immediately. I’d rather see the entire project fail than risk having this thing we’ve created break free. Do I make myself clear?"

And what exactly lead to the attack from the turians? 

[Pro_Consul]

Inverness Moon wrote...

A quote from TIM: "If you see anything unusual or unexpected—if you have any doubt or uncertainty at all—exterminate him immediately. I’d rather see the entire project fail than risk having this thing we’ve created break free. Do I make myself clear?"

And an attack by Turians wasn't "unusual or unexpected"? Was his escape the result of rank incompetence, disobedience, or were the Turians just so stealthy and coordinated that they had made it impossible to execute him before any alarm was even raised? Not being snarky here, dude; I'm truly interested in more details now.