586 réponses à ce sujet

[LordShrike]

@ Pro_Consul:

Wait. "Ninja'ed by that indoctinated PENGUIN collaborator, Shrike." Waitwhatidon'teven... PENGUINS? Where did that came from? This is not some Japanese RPG alt reality is it? I'm so confused. Argh!

Thanks for the clarification, THOSE were the words i was looking for. Penguins? O_o You know this is going to be get paid back, Right? (Penguins?) And i had a point, but... Penguins fcksed my reasoning.

[Pro_Consul]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The gravity wouldn't 'rip apart' things any more than pulling on anything would make it rip apart. Which is to say, you can do it, but it requires a lot of force, and after a point gravity from the black holes is more likely to pull the debris to the point of no return than to atomize it.

Actually the gravity from black holes is more than powerful enough to rip things into teensy, tiny pieces. As for pulling an object to the event horizon instead of atomizing it, these are not mutually exclusive activities. In fact, a single black hole generates tides all by itself. The gravity field (curvature) it creates is so steeply graded that a very small object could find that at one end of its length the gravity was much higher than at the other, causing a tensile or stretching effect that would rend anything that wasn't ridiculously malleable into tiny pieces.

Mass Effect fields don't negate gravity, they change the density of the substance the field passes through, making it either denser or less dense through psuedo-science plot device. Density changing effects gravity as an effect, but mass effects can be used either way.

Element zero can increase or decrease the mass of volume of space-time when subjected to an electrical current. With a positive current, mass is increased. With a negative current, mass is decreased.

That was from the Codex entry on ME fields. When you decrease the mass of a volume of space-time, gravity is precisely what is being decreased, because gravity is directly proportional to the mass. But you pegged it when you termed it "pseudo-science". Double bullseye on that one.

Modifié par Pro_Consul, 13 février 2011 - 08:50 .

[Pro_Consul]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The point I was making wasn't that gravity cancelled itself, but that the debris field wouldn't necessarily be swept away instantly with the loss of the base.

True, but the time you have in which to investigate might be relatively very small. And EVA activity might be a really bad idea.

[LordShrike]

Umm. Do mass effect fields affect inertia? Cause that would be the only way to make MA guns work.
Does not say it... YES! Found a plot hole in core game mechanics. Anti-W00T!
EDIT: Linky.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertia

Modifié par LordShrike, 13 février 2011 - 08:54 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Pro_Consul wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The point I was making wasn't that gravity cancelled itself, but that the debris field wouldn't necessarily be swept away instantly with the loss of the base.

True, but the time you have in which to investigate might be relatively very small. And EVA activity might be a really bad idea.

Or it might not. And since when has risk deterred Cerberus?

Nor would EVA activity be the only means of salvage: you could do a 'net' approach of gatering indiscriminately, and sorting it out later.

[Pro_Consul]

LordShrike wrote...

Umm. Do mass effect fields affect inertia? Cause that would be the only way to make MA guns work.
Does not say it... YES! Found a plot hole in core game mechanics. Anti-W00T!
EDIT: Linky.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertia

Sorry, dude. If you reduce the mass, then you automatically reduce the inertia, so the pseudo-science (thanks for reminding us of the term, Dean!) of ME fields would indeed have the described effect.

You and your penguin masters need to go back to the drawing board. That claim has been dismissed.

[Pro_Consul]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Nor would EVA activity be the only means of salvage: you could do a 'net' approach of gatering indiscriminately, and sorting it out later.

Fair point. And considering ME fields prolly need not be tied to the dimensions of the ships producing them, it might even be possible to EVA in close proximity to the ship, if it seemed necessary.

[Dean_the_Young]

Pro_Consul wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The gravity wouldn't 'rip apart' things any more than pulling on anything would make it rip apart. Which is to say, you can do it, but it requires a lot of force, and after a point gravity from the black holes is more likely to pull the debris to the point of no return than to atomize it.

Actually the gravity from black holes is more than powerful enough to rip things into teensy, tiny pieces. As for pulling an object to the event horizon instead of atomizing it, these are not mutually exclusive activities. In fact, a single black hole generates tides all by itself. The gravity field (curvature) it creates is so steeply graded that a very small object could find that at one end of its length the gravity was much higher than at the other, causing a tensile or stretching effect that would rend anything that wasn't ridiculously malleable into tiny pieces.

That depends on exactly where you are. If we aren't inside the event horizon (and there's little reason to believe we), then what black hole gravity can do elsewhere is irrelevant. It's where we are, now, that matters. And if we're told that the Collector Base was built in a region in which the gravitational effect isn't impossible to deal with... well, then that's where we are.

[LordShrike]

@ Pro_Consul:

So it is, thanks for correction. Jumped the gun, Physics hard but Inertia B###h to explain. (or to wrap around the brain.) Been a few years since it last came up in anything...

I think the actual space around the CB was stabile. Remember that some of those ship wrecks were OLD. So the Salvaging would have not been a problem even with out the CB.

[Pro_Consul]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

It's where we are, now, that matters. And if we're told that the Collector Base was built in a region in which the gravitational effect isn't impossible to deal with... well, then that's where we are.

We were told that jump drift as small as a few thousand kilometers would result in an environment that would be lethal for a ship to jump into. With the margins that small, it stands to reason we are dealing with some seriously crunked up stuff here. But then, pseudo-science: whaddya gonna do? There is even another scientific plot hole in there, but it would take a deeper delving into space-time curvature to describe, so I'll give it a miss.

[Pro_Consul]

LordShrike wrote...

I think the actual space around the CB was stabile. Remember that some of those ship wrecks were OLD. So the Salvaging would have not been a problem even with out the CB.

Well, presumably those wrecks were still intact (or as intact as such wreckage can be) because they were inside whatever ME field it is that protects the jump-in zone. I would guess those hulks and debris are the remains of ships which tried to transit the O-4 relay without an IFF but which were lucky enough to come out inside the safe zone anyway, and which were then blown to smithereens by Ocutrons (or whatever they called those pesky little things) and Collectors.

Modifié par Pro_Consul, 13 février 2011 - 09:12 .

[Bowhunter4L]

I destroyed it the first time and I will keep it through my second run. But does it really matter if it doesn't come into play in the third and final chapter?

[Pro_Consul]

Wolvenrick wrote...

 But does it really matter if it doesn't come into play in the third and final chapter?

Some might find it annoying if it doesn't. After BW wrote it as such a momentous decision, it would be pretty lame writing if it was then just forgotten about in the very next installment.

[LordShrike]

@ Pro_Consul:

True, and then the radiation would have killed all useful tech in those. Did not even see the point of salvage with out CB. Just tried to go along with it.

IF one can believe anything you say. Seriously, Penguins!?! Trolling & attacks on my personality i can deal with, but random stuff that throws me out of my game? Thats low! You win whatever argument we were having, If we were. Can't remember....

[Vaenier]

Pro_Consul wrote...

Element zero can increase or decrease the mass of volume of space-time when subjected to an electrical current. With a positive current, mass is increased. With a negative current, mass is decreased.

How do you get positive current? there are positive and negative ends to currect, but the currect itself is just electrons no matter what.

hydrogen plasma?

[AkiKishi]

I just did the base again as a Renegade and it was just too tempting to give TIM a virtual kick in the nuts after all the crap he put me through, so I blew it up....

[LordShrike]

@ Vaenier:

One would speculate that less electrons on eezo could diminish the effects of space time around it. (it sucks it up?) and vice versa. Pseudo science is the term to apply in this.

[Inverness Moon]

BobSmith101 wrote...

I just did the base again as a Renegade and it was just too tempting to give TIM a virtual kick in the nuts after all the crap he put me through, so I blew it up....

As long as you know that you're kicking the galaxy in the nuts at the same time.

[Sajuro]

As to why not everything got sucked up, maybe the Mass Relay was projecting its own mass effect field large enough to keep things stable.

[AkiKishi]

Inverness Moon wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

I just did the base again as a Renegade and it was just too tempting to give TIM a virtual kick in the nuts after all the crap he put me through, so I blew it up....

As long as you know that you're kicking the galaxy in the nuts at the same time.

Totally worth it

[Dean_the_Young]

Vaenier wrote...

Pro_Consul wrote...

Element zero can increase or decrease the mass of volume of space-time when subjected to an electrical current. With a positive current, mass is increased. With a negative current, mass is decreased.

How do you get positive current? there are positive and negative ends to currect, but the currect itself is just electrons no matter what.

hydrogen plasma?

Current phase: DC current is all 'forward', while AC current alternates between 'forward' and 'backward'.

[Inverness Moon]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Pro_Consul wrote...

Element zero can increase or decrease the mass of volume of space-time when subjected to an electrical current. With a positive current, mass is increased. With a negative current, mass is decreased.

How do you get positive current? there are positive and negative ends to currect, but the currect itself is just electrons no matter what.

hydrogen plasma?

Current phase: DC current is all 'forward', while AC current alternates between 'forward' and 'backward'.

I don't think that is a good enough explanation, and I don't see how such a difference would even make a difference with element zero. I imagine the only explanation that might make pseudo-sense is something that involves polarity. Magnets, how do they work, etc.

[Dean_the_Young]

You know what also isn't a good enough explanation? Element zero. When the first plot device violates the laws of conservation of energy, anything else has no claim to being serious.

[DPSSOC]

Perhaps they meant positive and negative charge not current.

[Pro_Consul]

I think they meant, "Don't look too close at the science here, cuz we're game writers, not physicists." Funny thing is I got that message outta most episodes of ST:X, too. Does that make it plagiarism?

Modifié par Pro_Consul, 14 février 2011 - 04:01 .