586 réponses à ce sujet

[Volus Warlord]

I saved it. There is no sense in destroying it.



Think about. I'm going to blow up the collector base because.. it sates my ego? Me being all righteous and the most good hero every? Please.



Keep the base. It is a commodity. A useful one at that. Maybe even more useful than Miranda. It, having been conquered, is a tool with which you can reverse engineer in order have a better shot at fighting the reapers. An enemy that is well beyond all you currently have.



So would you rather preserve your self-image or save humanity?

[Theoristitis]

Inquiry. Destroy region "Collector_Base" or deliver technology to human termed "Illusive Man"?
Accessing available data for informed decision.
Accessing...

"Collector_Base" known to create Reaper. Technology can be appropriated. Possibility of intact schematics and readouts surviving radiation pulse: 56.325%. Probability that human termed Illusive. Likelihood of residue ~term: 'indoctrination'~ within vicinity of station: unknown.
Cerberus records indicate general inability to control advanced technology, leading to loss of life. Correction: outcomes of dealing with Reaper technology evenly split.
Illusive Man's Motives - insufficient data to form conclusion.
Usefulness of Collector_Base - unknown. Insufficient data to form conclusion.
Following paths of Reaper technology - unusable as point of argument after Nazara's termination.

Consensus: INSUFFICIENT DATA. Inquiry cannot be answered through logical processes. Addendum: Shepard-Commander historically capable of succeeding through irrational (read: ~term, 'moral', ed. 'morality-based'~) decisions. Dependence on Keeping/Destroying Collector_Base: none.

Some food for thought if this thread turns into the epic argument this topic usually sparks.

Modifié par Theoristitis, 17 janvier 2011 - 02:30 .

[Sidac]

lovgreno wrote...

Sidac wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...
They have proven, time after time, that they have no bloody clue how to keep a dangerous project from becoming a disaster.

When you're only shown examples where they fail I too would agree but how many organizations are attempting what they Cerberus is doing? None that come to my mind. Those who are willing to take the leap of faith and test things first normally fail a lot first.

That is all well and good untill something goes completely FUBAR. Cerberus managed to screw up to the point of threatening the whole galaxy with the rampaging David in the Overlord DLC. This could have weakened the galaxy enough to ensure a reaper victory. Do we realy want to risk them doing it again with the base? Next time Shepard may not be able to be Cerberus janitor for failed experiments eating the redshirts.

its part of the inherant (sp?) risk. While they may have failed to control the geth at large, they did find out that they geth can in fact be controlled. It might be better to try it with a willing volunteer instead of someone that is screaming for quiet the entire time. You don't know what will be found at the base. You could send a team in and everyone could be indoctrinated, that again presents new research. You could also find plans for an anti-reaper super weapon. No one knows. Its all comes down to are you willing to take a great risk for a possible greater reward.

[thegreateski]

Sajuro wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

Kept it. It's literally going to be raining Reaper tech in ME3. Everyone is going to be on equal footing (or dead) by the time the war is over.

Giving the base to TIM just means that he'll get a head start on reverse engineering the Collector's tech. Tech we may be able to use in ME3 against the Reapers.

Tech that you two-shotted with a cruiser, tech that wasn't able to stop twelve spunky squadmates and shepard from tearing **** up. All the tech you need is the collector's beam

A lack of ability to write is poor evidance to use in its lack of future ability. If anything, that just makes it even more likely they will write something stupid like it having a reaper kill virus that would be pointless for reapers to possess.

No, it's showing that the collector's got all of the stuff that the reapers didn't want anymore, that is hardly going to be what kills them.

It has been stated that the Collectors have superior tech to other races. This tech could come in handy later on.

At best it will be useful in fighting the Reapers.

At worst it will be no more effective then our current weapons.

Just imagine. Unleashing a swarm of repurposed . . . erm . . . swarms to take down an army of husks.

Modifié par thegreateski, 17 janvier 2011 - 02:38 .

[Legbiter]

Blew it up. Besides, the ending when you don't is really lame. You just meekly hand the base over to TIM, him just acting smug and smirking at you the whole time.

[Sajuro]

thegreateski wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

Kept it. It's literally going to be raining Reaper tech in ME3. Everyone is going to be on equal footing (or dead) by the time the war is over.

Giving the base to TIM just means that he'll get a head start on reverse engineering the Collector's tech. Tech we may be able to use in ME3 against the Reapers.

Tech that you two-shotted with a cruiser, tech that wasn't able to stop twelve spunky squadmates and shepard from tearing **** up. All the tech you need is the collector's beam

A lack of ability to write is poor evidance to use in its lack of future ability. If anything, that just makes it even more likely they will write something stupid like it having a reaper kill virus that would be pointless for reapers to possess.

No, it's showing that the collector's got all of the stuff that the reapers didn't want anymore, that is hardly going to be what kills them.

It has been stated that the Collectors have superior tech to other races. This tech could come in handy later on.

At best it will be useful in fighting the Reapers.

At worst it will be no more effective then our current weapons.

Just imagine. Unleashing a swarm of repurposed . . . erm . . . swarms to take down an army of husks.

Because it is 'superior' (Refer to the part where Normandy owned the Collector ship) doesn't mean it isn't second hand tech. At very best, it could be useful in fighting the Reapers. At pretty good level, probably a nifty weapons upgrade, nothing too '' worthy. at ok, no more effective than our current weapons. At pretty bad, a Cerberus employee is fiddling with controls in Prothean and sends the entire base into the blackhole. At oh sh*t level, there is another collector ship that was getting some space pizza (where Shepard and the squad went during the abduction) then come back and take the collector base back.. At very worst, it backfires and starts manufacturing killer ships that swarm from the Omega Four relay destroying everything non reaper in their path.
With Cerberus, I wouldn't risk it for a minor advantage against the reapers, since their projects tend to go to the 'catastrophic' range.

[Interactive Civilian]

I destroyed it for 2 reasons, one petty and one reasonable.

Petty: I wanted to stick it to the Illusive Man. I don't trust him and I will thwart any and all of his plans for human dominance that I can. He may pay lip service to wanting the technology to win against the Reapers, but his ultimate goal is human dominance in the galaxy. I am a SpecTRe, an agent of the Citadel Council, and as far as I'm (my canon Shepard) concerned, my duty is the protection of the galactic community, not just the humans in it. Giving the base to the Illusive Man would be betrayal of my other obligations.

Reasonable: We saw what happened to the crew that boarded the derelict Reaper. Despite being dead, it's ability to indoctrinate was still there. Sure a radiation pulse would kill the collectors, but would it have any effect on the technology that the reapers use to indoctrinate people? Anyone working on that base for an extended period of time runs the risk of becoming a Reaper puppet. That risk is not worth it. Sure, there may be amazing technology to be gained, but the risks far outweigh it. Keeping the base has the strong possibility of giving the Reapers another "in" with which to infiltrate organics and subvert them to the Reapers own will and furthering their goal.

So, keeping the Collector base is too much of a risk. Pissing off the Illusive Man is just icing on the cake.

Modifié par Interactive Civilian, 17 janvier 2011 - 03:08 .

[Exiled Eagle]

Does it really matter? No matter what you choose, there's always going to be a way to stop the Reapers. BioWare isn't going to drastically punish Paragons or Renegades. With that logic, I destroyed the base.

[Last Vizard]

Sajuro wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

Kept it. It's literally going to be raining Reaper tech in ME3. Everyone is going to be on equal footing (or dead) by the time the war is over.

Giving the base to TIM just means that he'll get a head start on reverse engineering the Collector's tech. Tech we may be able to use in ME3 against the Reapers.

Tech that you two-shotted with a cruiser, tech that wasn't able to stop twelve spunky squadmates and shepard from tearing **** up. All the tech you need is the collector's beam

A lack of ability to write is poor evidance to use in its lack of future ability. If anything, that just makes it even more likely they will write something stupid like it having a reaper kill virus that would be pointless for reapers to possess.

No, it's showing that the collector's got all of the stuff that the reapers didn't want anymore, that is hardly going to be what kills them.

It has been stated that the Collectors have superior tech to other races. This tech could come in handy later on.

At best it will be useful in fighting the Reapers.

At worst it will be no more effective then our current weapons.

Just imagine. Unleashing a swarm of repurposed . . . erm . . . swarms to take down an army of husks.

Because it is 'superior' (Refer to the part where Normandy owned the Collector ship) doesn't mean it isn't second hand tech. At very best, it could be useful in fighting the Reapers. At pretty good level, probably a nifty weapons upgrade, nothing too '' worthy. at ok, no more effective than our current weapons. At pretty bad, a Cerberus employee is fiddling with controls in Prothean and sends the entire base into the blackhole. At oh sh*t level, there is another collector ship that was getting some space pizza (where Shepard and the squad went during the abduction) then come back and take the collector base back.. At very worst, it backfires and starts manufacturing killer ships that swarm from the Omega Four relay destroying everything non reaper in their path.
With Cerberus, I wouldn't risk it for a minor advantage against the reapers, since their projects tend to go to the 'catastrophic' range.

Collector General is dead, no more collectors, the thing that allows you to destroy Collector ship in the first place is Thanix cannons (Reaper tech) thats why the Collectors got owned, Collector base either = Very advanced weapons that will help save lives or = Collector base...... (two types of indoctrinations : fast and slow, fast leaves the indoctrinated like a husk, slow = Saren.... if the base could indocrtrinate you then wouldn't Harbinger have done that to you or your squad when you attacked?) if it gets retaken by the bad guys then you'll just need to fly back and kill them again....

For me it was a question of how many (population of citadel races) will be left after the war with the Reapers, chances will either better with the Collector base or they are the same.  Alot of people seem to be underestimating how advanced the Collectors were and underestimating the fact that the writers will need to make up a way for idiots to win at the end on ME 3.

[nubbers666]

in game i did 2 play throughs 1 were i saved it and another were i destroyed it



its really a tough call due to who is going to have acess to it and all

[James2912]

Cerberus may screw up a lot, but the Council has screwed up so bad dealing with the Reaper threat the Galaxy and all living beings are in jeopardy!

[marshalleck]

I kept it. First, I agree with Cerberus' mission, if not some of their methods. So that discards the "oh Cerberus will have access to it!" objection, since I deem that preferable. Secondly, we know that the first Normandy was built at the behest of Cerberus feeding information to the Systems Alliance, who partnered with the turians for its design. So in a similar manner, even if it's Cerberus who has primary access to the Collector base, whatever advances stem from studying it will eventually proliferate to the Systems Alliance and eventually to the rest of galactic society. I sincerely do not believe the Collector base was ever meant to be discovered by "lesser" species, as were the relays and the Citadel, so I don't believe it's trap or trojan horse.

Modifié par marshalleck, 17 janvier 2011 - 03:27 .

[msantos]

Folks

I don't believe it matters if you destroy the collector base or not. The Illusive man will still manage to retrieve a great deal of reaper tech and even perform its own version of indoctrination after Shepard decides to blow the station up.

For reference, please check the "Retribution" novel and you'll that is exactly what happened. The book implies the collector base was destroyed and Cerberus was still able to gather enough fragmented tech to turn one of their rogue operatives into a husk via implanted reaper tech.

Frankly, the talk about whether you destroy the base or not is irrelevant since and in my view, it is not likely to be a significant input into the follow-up story lines. If anything, the destruction of the collector base will only slow things down a bit for Cerberus.

Cheers

Modifié par msantos, 17 janvier 2011 - 03:40 .

[StarGateGod]

saved and destroyed on all charecters

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Here are the two reasons I destroy it.



1) Cerberus has a long list of uter failures under their belt.



2) If they don't fail than odds when the Council finds out you gave the base to a terrorist group you can say bye bye to any chance of them helping you. The key to beating the Reapers is to be united. Putting your trust in an orginization that everyone hates isn't going to help you do that.

[gloops]

Hmmm...That Thanix Cannon thing was pretty good. As was that EDI thing. Oh, and that Reaper IFF really helped the mission. What do all of these things have in common?



I think it's pretty obvious if you want to increase your chances of defeating the Reapers you keep the base. I'm not a moral zealot who's going to destroy potentially vital technology because TIM doesn't like aliens or whatever.

[AlanC9]

I'd like it if Harbinger was running a Xanatos Gambit on Shepard by letting him capture the base. I don't think it's likely that two really divergent paths could be implemented in ME3, though.

Edit: actually, it would have to be a Batman Gambit, since Shep has the option of blowing up the base.

Modifié par AlanC9, 17 janvier 2011 - 05:20 .

[Slayer299]

Vaenier wrote...

Paragons are dumb. You should have kept the base.
Renegades are dumb. You should have destroyed the base.
Both sides of the argument covered. Moving on.

Two Thumbs Up!

[Mr. Gogeta34]

The choice hinges on how much of a threat you percieve the Reapers being. If you are highly optimistic (or metagame), you will destroy the base because you WILL stop them without it.

If you take the information regarding the Reapers at face value/more seriously/realistically, you'd keep the base at a risk because there's currently no solution to the Reaper problem and the Base can only be an asset against the vulnerable alternative. Worst case scenario, TIM will need to be stopped (but he's at tjat stage already if you ask the Alliance/Council), species survival comes first when currently nothing's yet available to ensure it. Plus, Shepard died already thinking he was "good enough."

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 17 janvier 2011 - 05:37 .

[RAF1940]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

The choice hinges on how much of a threat you percieve the Reapers being. If you are highly optimistic (or metagame), you will destroy the base because you WILL stop them without it.

If you take the information regarding the Reapers at face value/more seriously/realistically, you'd keep the base at a risk because there's currently no solution to the Reaper problem and the Base can only be an asset against the vulnerable alternative. Worst case scenario, TIM will need to be stopped (but he's at tjat stage already if you ask the Alliance/Council), species survival comes first when currently nothing's yet available to ensure it. Plus, Shepard died already thinking he was "good enough."

Very true.

[zmanwithaplan]

I'd loved to have given it to the Alliance, but since that wasn't an option, I destroyed it.
Why would you give a man, who doesn't want to meet you face to face, the technology that has the ability to destroy entire colonies?

Also, this base is COLLECTOR technology, not reaper. Collectors are basically the Reaper test dumbies/slaves. They take only the best of collector technology, and incorperate it into the reaper fleet. I don't want to strive to use technology the reapers probably rejected.

Modifié par zmanwithaplan, 17 janvier 2011 - 06:03 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

[RAF1940]

zmanwithaplan wrote...

I'd loved to have given it to the Alliance, but since that wasn't an option, I destroyed it.
Why would you give a man, who doesn't want to meet you face to face, the technology that has the ability to destroy entire colonies?

Also, this base is COLLECTOR technology, not reaper. Collectors are basically the Reaper test dumbies/slaves. They take only the best of collector technology, and incorperate it into the reaper fleet. I don't want to strive to use technology the reapers probably rejected.

I agree.

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Lol

[Interactive Civilian]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

If you take the information regarding the Reapers at face value/more seriously/realistically, you'd keep the base at a risk because there's currently no solution to the Reaper problem and the Base can only be an asset against the vulnerable alternative.

So, you don't feel it's a reasonable in-game non-meta-gaming decision to destroy the base because the risk of indoctrination to those who study it is too high?

Shepard knows about indoctrination and saw what it did to Saren, Benezia, the geth, the Protheans (via Vigil's retelling), and so on, especially Vigil mentioning that those indoctrinated became sleeper agents. Shepard also saw what happened to the Cerberus scientists studying the dead Reaper, as well as the extreme indoctrination of the Protheans turned Collectors.

Indoctrination can be very subtle, and it may not be at all obvious that someone is indoctrinated and subtly working against you and creating victory for the Reapers.

Destroying the Collector base can very much be a non-meta-gaming decision. All you have to do is feel that the risk of indoctrinated sleeper agents is too high of a risk.

I can imagine that potentially being the way the decision is reconciled in ME3. Those that choose to destroy the base perhaps start at some kind of tech. disadvantage but don't have to deal with indoctrinated Cerberus agents. Those who keep the base get extra tech. which fails because it has been sabotaged by indoctrinated Cerberus agents. Both of these could be explained in the opening text, rather than actually having to play through them. In the end, both decisions can garauntee starting ME3 on equal footing.

[marshalleck]

Trust doesn't factor into it. You just have to agree with the goal.