586 réponses à ce sujet

[RAF1940]

I don't think it will have TOO much of an effect on ME3 anyways.

[marshalleck]

Of course it won't. Look at how quickly humanity advanced from just finding a data cache on Mars...now compare that cache to the Collector base. It's absurd to think that humanity gaining access to that base, it's technology, and all their research on numerous species over the last 50,000 years--maybe more--wouldn't jump our tech ahead thousands of years. The decision to keep it really is a no brainer, but since Bioware can't afford to make two different versions of ME3, the base decision will have to be relegated to the same level as the Council decision in ME1, which was really just flavor text here and there. In terms of plot, it changed nothing.

Modifié par marshalleck, 17 janvier 2011 - 06:19 .

[zmanwithaplan]

Interactive Civilian wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

If you take the information regarding the Reapers at face value/more seriously/realistically, you'd keep the base at a risk because there's currently no solution to the Reaper problem and the Base can only be an asset against the vulnerable alternative.

So, you don't feel it's a reasonable in-game non-meta-gaming decision to destroy the base because the risk of indoctrination to those who study it is too high?

I thought indoctrination only occurs on Reaper ships. The whole nasty conversion process occurs on Collector ships.

[RAF1940]

zmanwithaplan wrote...

Interactive Civilian wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

If you take the information regarding the Reapers at face value/more seriously/realistically, you'd keep the base at a risk because there's currently no solution to the Reaper problem and the Base can only be an asset against the vulnerable alternative.

So, you don't feel it's a reasonable in-game non-meta-gaming decision to destroy the base because the risk of indoctrination to those who study it is too high?

I thought indoctrination only occurs on Reaper ships. The whole nasty conversion process occurs on Collector ships.

It IS only onboard Reapers.

[Exile Isan]

RAF1940 wrote...
It IS only onboard Reapers.

No it's not. Trebin, that derelict ship in ME1, and Aequitas (sp?) are examples of groups of people being indoctrinated by devices that are not Reapers, but are Reaper tech.

Modifié par Exile Isan, 17 janvier 2011 - 06:28 .

[Interactive Civilian]

RAF1940 wrote...

It IS only onboard Reapers.

Is it? Because we saw indoctrinated Salarians on Virmire with no indication they'd been taken aboard Sovereign. All indications were that they were locked in their cells and remained there until indoctrinated. In the book, "Retribution", Grayson gets indoctrinated and huskified by being injected with Reaper nano tech. taken from the Collectors, and then later, just being in his presence has the ability to influence the minds of those around him. I'm actually concerned about the influence he/the Reapers may have had on the main protagonist of the story.

But, that is outside the game, so maybe I am off base. Do you have a source for needing to be on board a Reaper in order to be indoctrinated?

It seems to me that it can happen if you are exposed to the right (well, wrong in the bad luck sense ) technologies of theirs. Of course, I can't help but partially base my opinion on what I know of from the books.

Modifié par Interactive Civilian, 17 janvier 2011 - 06:28 .

[RAF1940]

Exile Isan wrote...

RAF1940 wrote...
It IS only onboard Reapers.

No it's not. Trebin and Aequitas (sp?) are examples of groups of people being indoctrinated by devices that are not Reapers, but are Reaper tech.

Good points. I stand corrected.

[Interactive Civilian]

Correction to my above, Re: Salarians on Virmire. Well, either in their cells or worked on in the lab. My point is weakened, but there is still no evidence that the Salarians were ever taken aboard Sovereign.

[RAF1940]

Interactive Civilian wrote...

Correction to my above, Re: Salarians on Virmire. Well, either in their cells or worked on in the lab. My point is weakened, but there is still no evidence that the Salarians were ever taken aboard Sovereign.

Yeah, I was wrong. This is still good evidence.

[Ieldra]

Interactive Civilian wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

If you take the information regarding the Reapers at face value/more seriously/realistically, you'd keep the base at a risk because there's currently no solution to the Reaper problem and the Base can only be an asset against the vulnerable alternative.

So, you don't feel it's a reasonable in-game non-meta-gaming decision to destroy the base because the risk of indoctrination to those who study it is too high?

Here are a few safety measures:
(1) Dont live together with that stuff. Don't camp in the base/derelict Reaper etc.. Instead, take samples away to study it somewhere else until you know how to protect yourself. If things are too big for that, limit exposure the best way you can.
(2) Indoctrination is carried by electromagnetic radiation (Codex). There are ways to protect against that. Wear heavy space suits, damn it. Anything that is low enough in energy to not damage your body by itself should not be so hard to keep out.
(3) Avoid direct contact as much as possible. Handle the stuff with remote controlled robotic arms.

Basically, once you know it's dangerous you can take measures to protect yourself. About 90% of Cerberus' failures could've been prevented by such things. And it's the main reason Cerberus comes across as incompetent.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 17 janvier 2011 - 06:49 .

[Ieldra]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
I'll contribute before this thread inevitably erupts into a Paragon vs Renegade debate, and state that I always destroy the Collector Base. Cerberus simply cannot be trusted, and to grant such an inept organisation the ability to use potentially dangerous Reaper technology is foolish, I believe.

It is. Until you take the Reaper threat into account. Then the realization that you need a technological edge to fight them should make you think twice. As bad as it sounds, Cerberus is the lesser evil here.

I wish I could have done with the base as with the info from the "Lost Operative" assignment - keep it for myself until I find competent people to study it. Or have Miranda put together a team to study it - she appears to be one of the few competent Cerberus people.

[Exile Isan]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Or have Miranda put together a team to study it - she appears to be one of the few competent Cerberus people.

That's because she's patient. Something other Cerberus scientists seem to lack.

Modifié par Exile Isan, 17 janvier 2011 - 07:04 .

[gloops]

Also, this base is COLLECTOR technology, not reaper. Collectors are basically the Reaper test dumbies/slaves. They take only the best of collector technology, and incorperate it into the reaper fleet. I don't want to strive to use technology the reapers probably rejected.

Uh, they were building a Reaper in there. Why would Reapers want to build a Reaper with technology they've rejected?

[Aeowyn]

Kept it.

[Epic777]

Hasn't this thread been done to death already?

[TexasToast712]

mopotter wrote...

I kept it once to see what happens. Otherwise I destroy it. I don't trust Tim, I don't completely trust the alliance and I don't trust the council.

This.

I trust TIM with anything and everything except a giant smoothie machine that runs on humans. On my main Shep when he told me to keep it I just couldnt do it and Iam even a renegade.

Modifié par TexasToast712, 17 janvier 2011 - 08:14 .

[Bigdoser]

I destroyed it as someone said before cerb keeps ****ing up and I have to end up playing janitor if I had the chance I would kill TIM and put miranda as head of cerb. If they had more succesful projects which does not threaten the whole galxy(overlord) then we can start talking about me giving cerb any reaper tech.

Modifié par Bigdoser, 17 janvier 2011 - 08:31 .

[Last Vizard]

zmanwithaplan wrote...

I'd loved to have given it to the Alliance, but since that wasn't an option, I destroyed it.
Why would you give a man, who doesn't want to meet you face to face, the technology that has the ability to destroy entire colonies?

Also, this base is COLLECTOR technology, not reaper. Collectors are basically the Reaper test dumbies/slaves. They take only the best of collector technology, and incorperate it into the reaper fleet. I don't want to strive to use technology the reapers probably rejected.

So how were the Collectors who were being controlled by harbinger going to build a Reaper? plus Collector tech is more advanced that citadel tech!

[Last Vizard]

Exile Isan wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Or have Miranda put together a team to study it - she appears to be one of the few competent Cerberus people.

That's because she's patient. Something other Cerberus scientists seem to lack.

Isn't there a little over a 12 cells at once? the others are still fine.

[GuardianAngel470]

Do we really need another one of these? I mean, if you're new to the forum I understand but otherwise this is basically Einstein's definition of insanity.

[Omnicrat]

Exiled Eagle wrote...

Does it really matter? No matter what you choose, there's always going to be a way to stop the Reapers. BioWare isn't going to drastically punish Paragons or Renegades. With that logic, I destroyed the base.

METAGAMER! -points as body snacher sound comes out of mouth-

[Omnicrat]

marshalleck wrote...

Of course it won't. Look at how quickly humanity advanced from just finding a data cache on Mars...now compare that cache to the Collector base. It's absurd to think that humanity gaining access to that base, it's technology, and all their research on numerous species over the last 50,000 years--maybe more--wouldn't jump our tech ahead thousands of years. The decision to keep it really is a no brainer, but since Bioware can't afford to make two different versions of ME3, the base decision will have to be relegated to the same level as the Council decision in ME1, which was really just flavor text here and there. In terms of plot, it changed nothing.

Dialogue =/= story

[Omnicrat]

Ieldra2 wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
I'll contribute before this thread inevitably erupts into a Paragon vs Renegade debate, and state that I always destroy the Collector Base. Cerberus simply cannot be trusted, and to grant such an inept organisation the ability to use potentially dangerous Reaper technology is foolish, I believe.

It is. Until you take the Reaper threat into account. Then the realization that you need a technological edge to fight them should make you think twice. As bad as it sounds, Cerberus is the lesser evil here.

I wish I could have done with the base as with the info from the "Lost Operative" assignment - keep it for myself until I find competent people to study it. Or have Miranda put together a team to study it - she appears to be one of the few competent Cerberus people.

In my oppinion, how a people survive is more important then if they survive.  Extinction in this cycle (set up some prothean-esq way of helping out the next guys) is preferable to tyrany at the hands of TIM in my book.

[Inverness Moon]

Omnicrat wrote...

In my oppinion, how a people survive is more important then if they survive.  Extinction in this cycle (set up some prothean-esq way of helping out the next guys) is preferable to tyrany at the hands of TIM in my book.

That is the ultimate fool's decision.

There is no guarantee that you can do anything to anything to "help out the next guys" that the reapers won't discover and destroy. They're not going to make the same mistakes they did before. For you to risk allowing the cycle to continue for millions of years is beyond idiocy.

But more importantly, it's absurd for you to think that extinction and allowing the cycle to continue is better than rule under TIM. Even if TIM did conquer the galaxy or something (which is out of character for TIM), it's silly to assume he couldn't be overthrown or something. You're making some pretty and ridiculous assumptions here.

If anyone thinks that Cerberus is more of a threat than the reapers in anyway, then they're just meta-gaming.

[Dean_the_Young]

I don't think placing TIM as worse than the Reapers can be called metagaming, Inverse.