586 réponses à ce sujet

[Vaenier]

DarkLord_PT wrote...

My Sole Survivor kept it. She saw too much death already, if there is a chance to save lives, she'll take it.

The irony is delicious. Mhmm

[Sidac]

Vaenier wrote...

DarkLord_PT wrote...

My Sole Survivor kept it. She saw too much death already, if there is a chance to save lives, she'll take it.

The irony is delicious. Mhmm

Im with you on that one...

[gogman25]

I thought saving it would be clever but...TIM and Cerberus? No thank you. Plus! PLUS! We would simply go along the Reaper technological root even further not good.

[Markinator_123]

Kept it. It amazes me how people are more fearful of Cerberus than the Reapers. People are going to let innocent people die for the sake of their misguided ideals of Utopian politics and equality. Newsflash there will never be Utopia or equality. If you saved the old council (which I didn't), they are still the same elitist buffoons that they were in the first game that treats humanity as if they are expendable. I was happy to get rid of them. They hold humanity back from reaching their fullest potential. Cerberus no matter what you say about them looks after human interests. If humans don't look after their own interests, no one else will. By the way, that anti-human politician in Thane's loyalty mission I was happy to cap that piece of trash. Just think I'm speaking to all of you as a paragade player.

Modifié par Markinator_123, 17 janvier 2011 - 08:01 .

[jbblue05]

Markinator_123 wrote...

Kept it. It amazes me how people are more fearful of Cerberus than the Reapers. People are going to let innocent people die for the sake of their misguided ideals of Utopian politics and equality. Newsflash there will never be Utopia or equality. If you saved the old council (which I didn't), they are still the same elitist buffoons that they were in the first game that treats humanity as if they are expendable. I was happy to get rid of them. They hold humanity back from reaching their fullest potential. Cerberus no matter what you say about them looks after human interests. If humans don't look after their own interests, no one else will. By the way, that anti-human politician in Thane's loyalty mission I was happy to cap that piece of trash. Just think I'm speaking to all of you as a paragade player.

Humans must obey their alien masters and not try too gain an advantage over them

Aliens>>>>>>>>>.humans

[Markinator_123]

jbblue05 wrote...

Markinator_123 wrote...

Kept it. It amazes me how people are more fearful of Cerberus than the Reapers. People are going to let innocent people die for the sake of their misguided ideals of Utopian politics and equality. Newsflash there will never be Utopia or equality. If you saved the old council (which I didn't), they are still the same elitist buffoons that they were in the first game that treats humanity as if they are expendable. I was happy to get rid of them. They hold humanity back from reaching their fullest potential. Cerberus no matter what you say about them looks after human interests. If humans don't look after their own interests, no one else will. By the way, that anti-human politician in Thane's loyalty mission I was happy to cap that piece of trash. Just think I'm speaking to all of you as a paragade player.

Humans must obey their alien masters and not try too gain an advantage over them

Aliens>>>>>>>>>.humans

Traitor

[jbblue05]

Markinator_123 wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Markinator_123 wrote...

Kept it. It amazes me how people are more fearful of Cerberus than the Reapers. People are going to let innocent people die for the sake of their misguided ideals of Utopian politics and equality. Newsflash there will never be Utopia or equality. If you saved the old council (which I didn't), they are still the same elitist buffoons that they were in the first game that treats humanity as if they are expendable. I was happy to get rid of them. They hold humanity back from reaching their fullest potential. Cerberus no matter what you say about them looks after human interests. If humans don't look after their own interests, no one else will. By the way, that anti-human politician in Thane's loyalty mission I was happy to cap that piece of trash. Just think I'm speaking to all of you as a paragade player.

Humans must obey their alien masters and not try too gain an advantage over them

Aliens>>>>>>>>>.humans

Traitor

I'm a human first renegade

Modifié par jbblue05, 17 janvier 2011 - 08:19 .

[james1976]

My first character was a Paragon so I destroyed the Collector Base and told Joker to "lose this channel" afterwards. Because to me that is what made sense for that character's personality. After all it's role-playing.
My second character is a mix of Paragon and Renegade, depends on the situation what he does, and he will likely destroy the base too. Third character is more likely to keep it.

Modifié par james1976, 17 janvier 2011 - 09:16 .

[earthbornFemShep]

I usually destroy it. Though if you read Retribution (*SPOILERS*), it really doesn't matter.

[Vaenier]

Paragons should keep the base too, if for nothing else than destroying it after the Council can get a look. This is the first piece of evidence the game actually lets you collect. Here the game does not continue the horrible railroading with the stupidity of everyone that could possibly help you. Without the base, you are exactly where you were when you died, nowhere at all. Nobody believes you, nobody wants to help you, nobody cares about your crazy delusions. With the base you can atleast shove it in the councils faces and get them to help.

[Bourne Endeavor]

The Paragon choice hurts my brain, despite having chosen it. Granted, I understand the apprehension to those who opt to destroy the base. It is logical to be weary of Cerberus and therefore not trust them but horrendously illogical to destroy something so immensely valuable. The Collector Base is physical evidence of the Reapers and would potential provide a means to their destruction. In essence both options are flawed.

Therefore, it sucks and I am changing it!

Paragon: Turn Collector Base over to the Alliance.
Renegade: Turn Collector Base over to Cerberus.

Paragon's retain the royal "middle finger" to TIM and have the added bonus of giving it to that Turian Councilor. While Renegades decide their allegiance is to the infinitely more useful TIM and probably can still mock that Turian.

Regardless, I have chosen both depending on my Shep. Those wholly distrustful of Cerberus cannot fathom TIM using it for the benefit of the galaxy and would rather find another way. I have one who is loyal to Cerberus, at least in the sense "They are more useful than the Alliance" and others who conclude the aforementioned "Base = Value!"

What is most unfortunate is this choice will likely have little ramifications in ME3. Evidently, it cannot play a significant role in the destruction of the Reapers devoid of hampering Paragons. Thus, I perceive a backhanded reference at best. Ugh, my optimism has dissipated today.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 17 janvier 2011 - 09:06 .

[Markinator_123]

Vaenier wrote...

Paragons should keep the base too, if for nothing else than destroying it after the Council can get a look. This is the first piece of evidence the game actually lets you collect. Here the game does not continue the horrible railroading with the stupidity of everyone that could possibly help you. Without the base, you are exactly where you were when you died, nowhere at all. Nobody believes you, nobody wants to help you, nobody cares about your crazy delusions. With the base you can atleast shove it in the councils faces and get them to help.

Paragons don't let fear compromise who they are remember! They fight with hugs and kisses and tell the big bad Illusive man where to shove it because he is just a big meanie. After that they are going to paint the Normandy pink, and a pure Paragon Shepard is going to tell Harbinger that he/she loves him and that the power of friendship can redeem the Reapers from their genocidal path.

Modifié par Markinator_123, 17 janvier 2011 - 09:06 .

[Barquiel]

Vaenier wrote...

Paragons should keep the base too, if for nothing else than destroying it after the Council can get a look. This is the first piece of evidence the game actually lets you collect. Here the game does not continue the horrible railroading with the stupidity of everyone that could possibly help you. Without the base, you are exactly where you were when you died, nowhere at all. Nobody believes you, nobody wants to help you, nobody cares about your crazy delusions. With the base you can atleast shove it in the councils faces and get them to help.

No, the railroading continues because the game doesn't even give me the option to contact the council (...and I'm not saving the galaxy so TIM can turn it into a human tyranny)

Modifié par Barquiel, 17 janvier 2011 - 09:10 .

[Vanguard1219]

Zeke01231 wrote...

Destroyed it...TIMs "human dominance" line was the deal breaker for my paragade shep...no desire to see the other races subverted.

Took the words right out of my mouth. With the exception of my pure renegade all of  my Shepards destroyed the base, if only because I know theres no way to keep TIM from abusing it via my decisions in-game. While I'm at it I usually imagine Shepard saying something far more useful than "I won't let fear compromise who I am" while they're essentally telling TIM to shove it.

An interesting thing to keep in mind, though. Because the novels are "canon neutral" in regards to in-game decisions TIM is apparently able to salvage Reaper tech from the base to do experiments on the verge of being both morally reprehensible and idiotic anyway according to Mass Effect: Retribution, regardless of what state you left the base in during the final leg of the Suicide Mission.

So yeah, in the grand scheme of things it might not matter too much either way...

Modifié par Vanguard1219, 17 janvier 2011 - 09:15 .

[Vaenier]

Barquiel wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Paragons should keep the base too, if for nothing else than destroying it after the Council can get a look. This is the first piece of evidence the game actually lets you collect. Here the game does not continue the horrible railroading with the stupidity of everyone that could possibly help you. Without the base, you are exactly where you were when you died, nowhere at all. Nobody believes you, nobody wants to help you, nobody cares about your crazy delusions. With the base you can atleast shove it in the councils faces and get them to help.

No, the railroading continues because the game doesn't even give me the option to contact the council (...and I'm not saving the galaxy so TIM can turn it into a human tyranny)

There is still time to redeem yourselves Bioware in ME3! Just give the option of taking the base from cerberus in the beginning. stop the horrible railroading and crappy plot before its too late.

[Omnicrat]

Barquiel wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Paragons should keep the base too, if for nothing else than destroying it after the Council can get a look. This is the first piece of evidence the game actually lets you collect. Here the game does not continue the horrible railroading with the stupidity of everyone that could possibly help you. Without the base, you are exactly where you were when you died, nowhere at all. Nobody believes you, nobody wants to help you, nobody cares about your crazy delusions. With the base you can atleast shove it in the councils faces and get them to help.

No, the railroading continues because the game doesn't even give me the option to contact the council (...and I'm not saving the galaxy so TIM can turn it into a human tyranny)

^this

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Interactive Civilian wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

If you take the information regarding the Reapers at face value/more seriously/realistically, you'd keep the base at a risk because there's currently no solution to the Reaper problem and the Base can only be an asset against the vulnerable alternative.

So, you don't feel it's a reasonable in-game non-meta-gaming decision to destroy the base because the risk of indoctrination to those who study it is too high?

Shepard knows about indoctrination and saw what it did to Saren, Benezia, the geth, the Protheans (via Vigil's retelling), and so on, especially Vigil mentioning that those indoctrinated became sleeper agents. Shepard also saw what happened to the Cerberus scientists studying the dead Reaper, as well as the extreme indoctrination of the Protheans turned Collectors.

Indoctrination can be very subtle, and it may not be at all obvious that someone is indoctrinated and subtly working against you and creating victory for the Reapers.

Destroying the Collector base can very much be a non-meta-gaming decision. All you have to do is feel that the risk of indoctrinated sleeper agents is too high of a risk.

I can imagine that potentially being the way the decision is reconciled in ME3. Those that choose to destroy the base perhaps start at some kind of tech. disadvantage but don't have to deal with indoctrinated Cerberus agents. Those who keep the base get extra tech. which fails because it has been sabotaged by indoctrinated Cerberus agents. Both of these could be explained in the opening text, rather than actually having to play through them. In the end, both decisions can garauntee starting ME3 on equal footing.

Metagaming is just one of the 2 big reasons you'd destroy the base, the other is being optimistic that you can beat them without it (i.e. not taking the Reapers as seriously)

Indoctrination could happen, but to run from a weapon the Reapers will surely use when they get here may not be the best idea... better to confront indoctrination in a controlled environment than during the chaos of war.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 17 janvier 2011 - 09:42 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

whoops, double post

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 17 janvier 2011 - 09:42 .

[Theoristitis]

Vaenier wrote...

Paragons should keep the base too, if for nothing else than destroying it after the Council can get a look. This is the first piece of evidence the game actually lets you collect.

It's decent evidence, but what does it prove? That a race known as the Collectors were looking into the technology behind organically-engineered starships? While it is the first thing we've been able to save, it doesn't even take the first step toward conclusive evidence. It even allows the Council to believe that the geth were trading with the Collectors (e.g. for husk and thanix cannon technology), which hurts our cause.

[james1976]

Well from my Paragon's standpoint, destroying the Collector base and denying Cerebus access to it was a two-fold win. It was destroying an abomination of evil and preventing an people like TIM from using the horrors in which where trying to destroy all organic life in the first place. Better to stand on your beliefs in the face of all odds.

[Ieldra]

james1976 wrote...
Well from my Paragon's standpoint, destroying the Collector base and denying Cerebus access to it was a two-fold win. It was destroying an abomination of evil and preventing an people like TIM from using the horrors in which where trying to destroy all organic life in the first place. Better to stand on your beliefs in the face of all odds.

....even if means galactic extinction. The true mark of the Principles Zealot. Mental inflexibility is not a virtue.

[Drowsy0106]

Ieldra2 wrote...

james1976 wrote...
Well from my Paragon's standpoint, destroying the Collector base and denying Cerebus access to it was a two-fold win. It was destroying an abomination of evil and preventing an people like TIM from using the horrors in which where trying to destroy all organic life in the first place. Better to stand on your beliefs in the face of all odds.

....even if means galactic extinction. The true mark of the Principles Zealot. Mental inflexibility is not a virtue.

Easy on the meth sister 

[Sidac]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

Paragon's retain the royal "middle finger" to TIM and have the added bonus of giving it to that Turian Councilor. While Ren

ONLY and I mean ONLY(!!!) if I can spray paint this on the side of the station:




Before sending it to him.

Modifié par Sidac, 17 janvier 2011 - 10:35 .

[Vaenier]

Theoristitis wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Paragons should keep the base too, if for nothing else than destroying it after the Council can get a look. This is the first piece of evidence the game actually lets you collect.

It's decent evidence, but what does it prove? That a race known as the Collectors were looking into the technology behind organically-engineered starships? While it is the first thing we've been able to save, it doesn't even take the first step toward conclusive evidence. It even allows the Council to believe that the geth were trading with the Collectors (e.g. for husk and thanix cannon technology), which hurts our cause.

Well, would you rather find out what evidence is on the base or just dismiss the possibility blindly and ignore any chance of finding something by blowing it up... You are worse than the turian councilor.

[Markinator_123]

Ieldra2 wrote...

james1976 wrote...
Well from my Paragon's standpoint, destroying the Collector base and denying Cerebus access to it was a two-fold win. It was destroying an abomination of evil and preventing an people like TIM from using the horrors in which where trying to destroy all organic life in the first place. Better to stand on your beliefs in the face of all odds.

....even if means galactic extinction. The true mark of the Principles Zealot. Mental inflexibility is not a virtue.

*High Fives Ieldra2*