586 réponses à ce sujet

[Inverness Moon]

Sajuro wrote...

Over the course of two mass effect games and a lifetime of media, I have learned the Cerberus and other such organizations ared nothing if not rife with retarded thinking.
Nope, I inspected my reasoning and it just brings to mind a fake Onion headline from WW2: "Japanese side with nation seeking Aryan supremacy in a well thought out move"

Don't even bother arguing if you're just going to resort to metagaming. Trying to explain why Cerberus is "rife with retarded thinking" by pointing to organizations that aren't Cerberus is a logical fallacy of the most obvious kind.

I don't want Mass Effect to be some boring black and white universe. I enjoy the fact that Mass Effect is filled with shades of gray despite what the paragon and renegade meters would have you believe, because that is a reflection of reality. I don't do silly things like suggesting TIM is aligned with the reapers because his eyes glow or that he wants to become the next Emperor Palpatine just because. That is cliche bull**** that I have no interest in and that many people argue for because reducing things to black and white makes it easier for them to deal with it.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 19 janvier 2011 - 08:48 .

[Sajuro]

Inverness Moon wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Over the course of two mass effect games and a lifetime of media, I have learned the Cerberus and other such organizations ared nothing if not rife with retarded thinking.
Nope, I inspected my reasoning and it just brings to mind a fake Onion headline from WW2: "Japanese side with nation seeking Aryan supremacy in a well thought out move"

Don't even bother arguing if you're just going to resort to metagaming. Trying to explain why Cerberus is "rife with retarded thinking" by pointing to organizations that aren't Cerberus is a logical fallacy of the most obvious kind.

I don't want Mass Effect to be some boring black and white universe. I enjoy the fact that Mass Effect is filled with shades of gray despite what the paragon and renegade meters would have you believe, because that is a reflection of reality. I don't do silly things like suggesting TIM is aligned with the reapers because his eyes glow or that he wants to become the next Emperor Palpatine just because. That is cliche bull**** that I have no interest in and that many people argue for because reducing things to black and white makes it easier for them to deal with it.

You know what you are right, I should have only used the various experiements and failures that I have seen from Cerberus, and I know I am going to get the same arguments that always happen, telling me that I favor extinction over reason and that Cerberus must be good because they are still functioning. I know Mass Effect isn't black and white and that is what is good about it, but even in the shades of grey I cannot abide by a terrorist organization whose stated motive is 'human dominance for now and forever' and just think they will learn to play nice with everyone for fighting the Reapers instead of using the other species more as meatshields mostly so Humans can crawl out of the ensuing wreckage relatively unscathed and exert unopposed power over the rest of the galaxy. Sorry if this makes you copy and paste from your old arguments or state how stupid these views are, but I am aiming to live and not just survive and even if the fight is hopeless because I blew up a reaper factory, My shepard will fight to his last breath to protect to citizens of the galaxy and will die without regret, because regret would be as you put it "metagaming"

[Vaenier]

You gota wonder what the Alliance will do to you when they find out you destroyed one of the largest caches of technology in the galaxy... Execution for treason. All because you couldnt lie to tim and say he could have it while you flew directly to Anderson to give him the good news. lols

[Sajuro]

Vaenier wrote...

You gota wonder what the Alliance will do to you when they find out you destroyed one of the largest caches of technology in the galaxy... Execution for treason. All because you couldnt lie to tim and say he could have it while you flew directly to Anderson to give him the good news. lols

You gotta wonder what the Alliance will do to you when the find out you gave one of the largest caches of technology in the galaxy to a terrorist organization...Execution for treason. Isn't it funny how people throw around Treason so much on these boards? give the shadow broker intel on Cerberus? treason. Kohaku finding out what happened to his men and going after Cerberus? treason. Destroying the collector base? treason.
All kidding aside, if the Alliance tries to execute me for treason, I will give the soldiers they sent after me exactly one chance to realize how stupid what they were doing was, and then force my way through them if need be. As a Specter, I am loyal to the Council above the Alliance, and if the Alliance chooses to execute me for treason for not giving terrorists the Collector's Base? They need to be prepared for a fight.
While we are on it, what would Anderson say if you said "I found a base past the Omega 4 relay that needs a Reaper IFF to not send you into a blackhole, and I gave it to Cerberus :happy:"
A) "Great, lets go and get that base :)"
or
"How are we supposed to get the Alliance navy through the Terminus systems without provoking a war?"

[Vaenier]

Sajuro wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

You gota wonder what the Alliance will do to you when they find out you destroyed one of the largest caches of technology in the galaxy... Execution for treason. All because you couldnt lie to tim and say he could have it while you flew directly to Anderson to give him the good news. lols

You gotta wonder what the Alliance will do to you when the find out you gave one of the largest caches of technology in the galaxy to a terrorist organization...Execution for treason. Isn't it funny how people throw around Treason so much on these boards? give the shadow broker intel on Cerberus? treason. Kohaku finding out what happened to his men and going after Cerberus? treason. Destroying the collector base? treason.

You didnt give it to them, you only said you did. That was the whole point of my statement...

All kidding aside, if the Alliance tries to execute me for treason, I will give the soldiers they sent after me exactly one chance to realize how stupid what they were doing was, and then force my way through them if need be. As a Specter, I am loyal to the Council above the Alliance, and if the Alliance chooses to execute me for treason for not giving terrorists the Collector's Base? They need to be prepared for a fight.
While we are on it, what would Anderson say if you said "I found a base past the Omega 4 relay that needs a Reaper IFF to not send you into a blackhole, and I gave it to Cerberus :happy:"
A) "Great, lets go and get that base :)"
or
"How are we supposed to get the Alliance navy through the Terminus systems without provoking a war?"

That is easy, just stop painting logos on the sides of your ships. a half dosen ships with no outward apperances of belonging to anyone will not provoke anything. What war would they provoke anyway? There is nothing out there. Just scattered colonies and mercinaries. The whole terminous excuse gets tireing really fast...

Common sense damnit, you find a way.

[Someone With Mass]

I really don't want Cerberus fiddling with that base, considering that they've done more damage with less, and I'm not their goddamn janitor.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 19 janvier 2011 - 04:37 .

[Vaenier]

Someone With Mass wrote...

I really don't want Cerberus fiddling with that base, considering that they've done more damage with less, and I'm not their goddamn janitor.

Observation: Dispite a long history of perfectly executed operations for the Alliance and when being used for plausable deniability, the handful of missions created for the sole purpose of giving people something to shoot at has made Cerberus completely incompitant. Bioware has made a top secret self sustained organisation appear as failures with their idea that gameplay is greater than story.

[AUS Wookie]

On everyone of my playthroughs I have blown it up. However on my next playthrough I will be saving the game just before the decision, so in ME3 I can see what happens either way.

[Omnicrat]

gloops wrote...

1) Tim doesn't think that is going to happen.

TIM doesn't think there's a chance humanity could be wiped out by the Reapers? Yeah, whatever.

3) Tim says he plans on using the base to secure human dominance. Can't argue with in-game dialogue. I'm just putting forth the explanation that doesn't make him out to be a total moron.

He plans on using the base to secure human dominance post-Reaper threat. That doesn't mean while fighting the Reapers he won't do what is necessary. Human dominance doesn't mean anything if humanity is extinct, which it certainly will be if TIM hordes the tech.

1)  Allow me to re-frase; Tim does not think there is a chance the Reapers will wipe-out humanity with his plan enacted.

3)  Did you miss my post explaining in detail what I ment by that?  He does give tech to people, but only if they listen to him.  He is classified as a terrorist.  It is not dificult for mainstream governemnts to believe he would let the galaxy burn if he doesn't get his way because he just seems like an extreamist madman to them.  They take his tech and he gets a huge say in military operations.  This is a shorter version of my earlier post.  please look at that post for the full explanation.

[Omnicrat]

gloops wrote...

Over the course of two mass effect games and a lifetime of media, I have learned the Cerberus and other such organizations ared nothing if not rife with retarded thinking.

So you have to resort to metagaming? Game, set and match gloops.

How is life experiance (presumably one you are imposing on your character) in any way meta-gaming?

[gloops]

How is life experiance (presumably one you are imposing on your character) in any way meta-gaming?

How could Shepard be privy to any of the media Sajuro has consumed? The answer is Shepard couldn't be, therefore it's metagaming.

[Vaenier]

gloops wrote...

How is life experiance (presumably one you are imposing on your character) in any way meta-gaming?

How could Shepard be privy to any of the media Sajuro has consumed? The answer is Shepard couldn't be, therefore it's metagaming.

Surfing the space internet. Looking at space wikileaks.

[Interactive Civilian]

Vaenier wrote...

gloops wrote...

How is life experiance (presumably one you are imposing on your character) in any way meta-gaming?

How could Shepard be privy to any of the media Sajuro has consumed? The answer is Shepard couldn't be, therefore it's metagaming.

Surfing the space internet. Looking at space wikileaks.

Well, I don't know about you folks, but MY Commander Shepard just bought the books in the Citadel Souvenir shop.

[Sajuro]

gloops wrote...

How is life experiance (presumably one you are imposing on your character) in any way meta-gaming?

How could Shepard be privy to any of the media Sajuro has consumed? The answer is Shepard couldn't be, therefore it's metagaming.

He watched saturday morning cartoons at the base on Akuze (grew up on earth so not much childhood) before cerberus used it to test how deadly thresher  maws were.

[Sajuro]

double post

Modifié par Sajuro, 20 janvier 2011 - 02:51 .

[Inverness Moon]

Sajuro wrote...

gloops wrote...

How is life experiance (presumably one you are imposing on your character) in any way meta-gaming?

How could Shepard be privy to any of the media Sajuro has consumed? The answer is Shepard couldn't be, therefore it's metagaming.

He watched saturday morning cartoons at the base on Akuze (grew up on earth so not much childhood) before cerberus used it to test how deadly thresher  maws were.

Shepard basing his opinion of Cerberus off of cartoons or any other fiction is pretty worrying. That is certainly not how a spectre should behave.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 20 janvier 2011 - 04:28 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Shouldn't? Perhaps. Plausible?



Where, there are a number of people here who advocate comic book morality...

[james1976]

Sajuro wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

You gota wonder what the Alliance will do to you when they find out you destroyed one of the largest caches of technology in the galaxy... Execution for treason. All because you couldnt lie to tim and say he could have it while you flew directly to Anderson to give him the good news. lols

You gotta wonder what the Alliance will do to you when the find out you gave one of the largest caches of technology in the galaxy to a terrorist organization...Execution for treason. Isn't it funny how people throw around Treason so much on these boards? give the shadow broker intel on Cerberus? treason. Kohaku finding out what happened to his men and going after Cerberus? treason. Destroying the collector base? treason.
All kidding aside, if the Alliance tries to execute me for treason, I will give the soldiers they sent after me exactly one chance to realize how stupid what they were doing was, and then force my way through them if need be. As a Specter, I am loyal to the Council above the Alliance, and if the Alliance chooses to execute me for treason for not giving terrorists the Collector's Base? They need to be prepared for a fight.
While we are on it, what would Anderson say if you said "I found a base past the Omega 4 relay that needs a Reaper IFF to not send you into a blackhole, and I gave it to Cerberus :happy:"
A) "Great, lets go and get that base :)"
or
"How are we supposed to get the Alliance navy through the Terminus systems without provoking a war?"

That is certainly something to think about and has crossed my mind before.

I seem to remember Garrus saying he thought it might be a good idea to keep it.  I found that odd since it would end up in Cerebus' hands...for "human dominance".  Though his point was in stopping the reapers.  Several ethical lines start to blur depending on your character's personality and morals.
There are a lot of people who play "out of character" anyway and will just do what makes sense to them, as the player, to get the perfect outcome they can reason.

Modifié par james1976, 20 janvier 2011 - 09:31 .

[RAF1940]

james1976 wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

You gota wonder what the Alliance will do to you when they find out you destroyed one of the largest caches of technology in the galaxy... Execution for treason. All because you couldnt lie to tim and say he could have it while you flew directly to Anderson to give him the good news. lols

You gotta wonder what the Alliance will do to you when the find out you gave one of the largest caches of technology in the galaxy to a terrorist organization...Execution for treason. Isn't it funny how people throw around Treason so much on these boards? give the shadow broker intel on Cerberus? treason. Kohaku finding out what happened to his men and going after Cerberus? treason. Destroying the collector base? treason.
All kidding aside, if the Alliance tries to execute me for treason, I will give the soldiers they sent after me exactly one chance to realize how stupid what they were doing was, and then force my way through them if need be. As a Specter, I am loyal to the Council above the Alliance, and if the Alliance chooses to execute me for treason for not giving terrorists the Collector's Base? They need to be prepared for a fight.
While we are on it, what would Anderson say if you said "I found a base past the Omega 4 relay that needs a Reaper IFF to not send you into a blackhole, and I gave it to Cerberus :happy:"
A) "Great, lets go and get that base :)"
or
"How are we supposed to get the Alliance navy through the Terminus systems without provoking a war?"

That is certainly something to think about and has crossed my mind before.

I seem to remember Garrus saying he thought it might be a good idea to keep it.  I found that odd since it would end up in Cerebus' hands...for "human dominance".  Though his point was in stopping the reapers.  Several ethical lines start to blur depending on your character's personality and morals.
There are a lot of people who play "out of character" anyway and will just do what makes sense to them, as the player, to get the perfect outcome they can reason.

I am often like that.

[Sajuro]

Inverness Moon wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

gloops wrote...

How is life experiance (presumably one you are imposing on your character) in any way meta-gaming?

How could Shepard be privy to any of the media Sajuro has consumed? The answer is Shepard couldn't be, therefore it's metagaming.

He watched saturday morning cartoons at the base on Akuze (grew up on earth so not much childhood) before cerberus used it to test how deadly thresher  maws were.

Shepard basing his opinion of Cerberus off of cartoons or any other fiction is pretty worrying. That is certainly not how a spectre should behave.

Maybe after  he saw how cartoonishly evil they were while being total bastards in ME1, the translation sort of carried over (anyone else expected a death ray or TIM to go 'muhahaha)
It may be troubling for a Spectre to be that way, but that's how his character is and I wouldn't want to make the mistake of playing out of character.
Also he can never resist interrupting someone 

[Omnicrat]

gloops wrote...

How is life experiance (presumably one you are imposing on your character) in any way meta-gaming?

How could Shepard be privy to any of the media Sajuro has consumed? The answer is Shepard couldn't be, therefore it's metagaming.

Well, if they are playing Shepard as themselves, then they are assuming Shepard was exposed to similar media and has a similar opinion from it.  Creating a past life experiance for Shepard is not metagaming.

[InvincibleHero]

Destroyed it in my first playthorugh as a paragon male Shepard. Of course my second renegade Shepard will save it. On my other 3-4 playthroughs it may vary.

[Ryzaki]

I can't help blowing it up. Keeping it is just too bleh.



Plus the radiation scene is just weak.

[RAF1940]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Destroyed it in my first playthorugh as a paragon male Shepard. Of course my second renegade Shepard will save it. On my other 3-4 playthroughs it may vary.

Same here.

[Sajuro]

RAF1940 wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

Destroyed it in my first playthorugh as a paragon male Shepard. Of course my second renegade Shepard will save it. On my other 3-4 playthroughs it may vary.

Same here.

Only saved it when I thought that a disloyal miranda would betray you to save the base.
I kind of wish she would.