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#376
RAF1940

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cachx wrote...

Just watched it. It was ok. Did a pretty good job on being informative in the limited running time.

I'm not sure I agree with leaving Feros completely out of the comic (even though Feros adds very little in the broad scope).

The only thing that worries me is IF we will see the ME2 cameos, it just doesn't feel right not having Gianna, Conrad and Shiala.

Also I don't know why enforce the Council Leader decision, you can already re-make that choice in ME2 anyway.

Oh and the art was ugly, but then again, I haven't liked the art in any ME comic.



I agree 100% with this. Too much was left out (like Feros), but it did what it could in its time.

#377
RAF1940

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The Smoking Man wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

The Smoking Man wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

While, as I said, it could have been done better, I don't see how that is essential to your introduction in ME2.

The real problem with it is when you consider Mac Waters wrote that comic. And he couldn't get that fact straight. This has bad implications for ME3. I once jokingly said in a thread speculating about how the Reapers would get to Earth that "they traveled through a plot hole". Except it's looking now more like that isn't just going to be a joke.

While I understand your concern, I wouldn't worry too much. This part is a detail, and Mac Walters did cut 90% of the details.

It's a significant detail. And it wasn't merely "cut", it was fundamentally changed. There is a huge difference between "there are mass relays linking to dark space that are controlled by the Citadel" and "the Citadel is actually a mass relay that links to dark space".


Thank you for pointing this out! I didn't realize how much such a vital thing was changed. PS3 users will be like "What the hell?" Image IPB

#378
Someone With Mass

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Not mentioning who or what the geth are was a huge miss too. It'd be like if a resume of ME2 never mentions the Collectors.

#379
FsDxRAGE

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Image IPB

#380
Babli

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Phaedon wrote...

Babli wrote...
It got some facts wrong, not to mention, that some things were not even mentioned. So its still valid.

This actually not retcon.

If this quote below is not retcon, then I dont know what is.

The Smoking Man wrote...

Genesis Citadel twist explanation:
"...
But a few survived long enough to leave a parting gift: The Protheans
had discovered that the Citadel was the key to controlling the mass
relays. By sabotaging the Citadel, they found a way to close the relays
to dark space, slowing the Reapers' return..."

Proposed revision (draft):
"...
But a few survived long enough to leave a parting gift: The Protheans
had discovered that the Citadel was actually a mass relay to dark
space, where the Reapers were waiting. By sabotaging the Citadel, they
closed the relay to dark space, slowing the Reapers' return..."

I
just explained the Citadel twist properly while keeping my explanation
almost as brief. There's no reason why Mac Waters couldn't have done
the same. In fact, you could probably omit the "where the Reapers were
waiting" bit, which actually makes it even shorter than the Genesis
explanation.


And then there are these things.

didymos1120 wrote...

A lot of this stuff has been listed
before, but I've decided to just consolidate all the problems I and
others have seen.  I've tried emphasize why it's so bad for someone who
knows nothing about ME1, and I've mostly avoided the art, except where
it violates continuity. Keep in mind how a lot of this will seem after
someone gets into the game and starts getting exposition on a lot of
this stuff:

Normandy's just some ship.

Shep's just some guy. Not a Spectre candidate.

Nothing about humanity's current place, or the basics of the setting.

Nihlus? Gone.

Joker? Gone.

Geth? What are those?

Only
an Alliance patrol was attacked. Not Eden Prime as a whole. It also
gives the impression that Sovereign did it, not the geth. No video
transmission, and the patrol "couldn't explain" what they'd seen. Then
they change that during the beacon scene: now the colony was attacked.

Kaidan? He's a "good kid". He also uses an assault rifle throughout the comic. Later on Virmire: "Save Kaiden."

Biotics. What are they? Good question. We won't be answering it at this time.

There's a dead krogan next to the beacon.

The
Citadel and Council are just dropped in with no explanation as to what
either is. Spectres aren't explained either. Shep just becomes one for
some reason.

There was some unspecified, additional evidence connecting Saren to Sovereign.

Udina's just a guy. His personality is elided pretty much entirely, with just a little bit mentioned at the very end.

Garrus is "a top agent for Citadel Security." Uh, huh?

Tali's a fugitive. From what? Why? Who knows.

Tali's evidence was apparently a holographic recording of Saren. It also somehow proved Sovereign was his flagship.

Why is Wrex even involved? He just had some unspecified "intel". Why'd he have it? What was it? More good questions.

Wrex's armor starts out short-sleeved, then reverts to normal on Virmire. (yeah, nitpick, but that's just sloppy)

Reapers
allegedly kill everything every 50,000 years. It almost sounds like
this is a commonly known thing. Oh and that fact alone is supposed to
"explain" why Saren's trying to bring about their return. Until the
comic gets to Virmire and suddenly it doesn't explain it, and Shep
wonders why Saren's doing all this. Which by the way is never
explained. Sovereign just indocrinated him at some point apparently.

BTW, what's indoctrination exactly?

Anderson voluntarily gives up command of the Normandy. His connection to Saren? What connection?

Therum? No mention. Liara is just found somewhere and comes along.

If
you didn't know about asari, you could easily think just Liara and her
mother had the melding ability, like some sort of mutant superpower.

Noveria's just a name. It comes across like rachni lived there, and Saren conquered them.

Absolutely nothing is said about where on Noveria you fought the rachni.

It's said that Saren was there with Benezia, and you just miss him.

Benezia is just there to extract "information" from the Queen. What it is and why Saren wants it? Not explained.

Benezia's just a name. You see her corpse in one panel, no face.

It's made out like the Rachni Queen was controlling all the workers and warriors.

It's simply said she's "angry and dangerous" and that the "rachni had terrorized the galaxy" before.

Free her and "She left, and took her army of drones with her."

There's no explanation as to why killing the queen would doom the entire species to extinction.

Mu-relay? What's that?

Feros. Cipher. Thorian. All gone.

Shep just finds Virmire somehow.

STG? Kirrahe? Gone. There's a salarian in one panel though.

Indoctrination? Shep figures out what it really is just by talking to Saren on Virmire.

Tank-bred krogan? They "weren't real", and were "mindless beasts".

Genophage? Explained very poorly, but at least it's accurate about what it does explain.

"Wrex disagreed...violently." Uh, he did? If you didn't know better, you'd think he attacked Shep.

"Fortunately, Wrex is smarter than he looks." C'mon, that's just insulting.

No second beacon.

"I
split up my team in two squads, sending Ash with one, Kaidan with the
other as a distraction. We had a nuke, and we planned to use it." Who
the f*ck was in these squads? Why is only one person killed?

Ilos? Just some old planet.

Conduit? Yeah....no.

Vigil? Just a "prothean databank" that Shep was able to access and understand with no problem.

The Cycle? Shep figures that part out on Ilos.

Reapers? On Ilos, Shep learns they really do kill everything, not just spacefaring civilizations.

Citadel? Apparently, not a relay to dark space. There's more than one of those now.

The Citadel controls the mass relays. What's a mass relay? Good question.

Dual-pistol-wielding Tali and Garrus.

Husks have red blood. Not that you'd know what they are as they just appear out of nowhere on the Citadel.

Geth ships don't look right at all. You also have no idea what they are.

Saren "died believing the Reapers would save him."

RoboSaren? Final boss not appearing in this comic.

The
impression is given that the Destiny Ascension only comes under attack
after Saren's dead. The Asari Councilor personally asks for help.

The Normandy leads a "combined galactic fleet". Humanity and the other races all take down Sovereign.

Despite that "combined galactic fleet", it's just humanity that'll take a hit if the Council is saved.

Try and figure out what the Normandy was actually doing in that battle just going by the art alone.

Udina's office is apparently in a skyscraper. And has glass windows.

"Earned
us our first seat on the Council." It's not really wrong....if you have
prior knowledge of how the Council works and know there will be
successors. Otherwise, you'd think humans could eventually have
multiple Councilors at once.

Shep isn't asked to recommend a Councilor. Shep is given full authority to choose, as if that wasn't just a gameplay thing.

Shep
isn't assigned to go clean up the geth. Shep goes looking for
"answers", and the mop up of Saren's "armies" is just a cover
story.


Mac Walters: Ah yes "Mass Effect 1" we have dismissed that claim.

#381
CroGamer002

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There is no retcon in this comic.

#382
The Smoking Man

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Babli wrote...

Mac Walters

(Side note: Oops, it is Walters, not Waters as I kept typing in my posts. Both are real surnames and are very close to each other so I keep mixing that up.)

#383
morrie23

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Mesina2 wrote...

There is no retcon in this comic.


No, just a load of screw ups and not the usual quality shown by BioWare.

#384
ifander

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So far I've dismissed all the "worries about ME3"-threads and posts in the forums, I've been thinking they were premature and unfounded.

The Smoking Man wrote...

It's a significant detail. And it wasn't merely "cut", it was fundamentally changed. There is a huge difference between "there are mass relays linking to dark space that are controlled by the Citadel" and "the Citadel is actually a mass relay that links to dark space".

That has me worried though. Somebody bring back Chris L'Etoile :crying:

#385
Someone With Mass

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I know they have to keep it brief, but come on. Not explaining things like how the hell Shepard found out about Virmire is just going to give anyone new more questions than answers.

#386
cachx

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The Smoking Man wrote...

Babli wrote...
Mac Walters

(Side note: Oops, it is Walters, not Waters as I kept typing in my posts. Both are real surnames and are very close to each other so I keep mixing that up.)

Kinda like Kaidan and Kaiden.

didymos1120 wrote...
A lot of this stuff has been listed before, but I've decided to just consolidate all ...*large quote snip*

Isn't a lot of that minutia already covered on the Codex?

#387
CroGamer002

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morrie23 wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

There is no retcon in this comic.


No, just a load of screw ups and not the usual quality shown by BioWare.


I know.

#388
RiouHotaru

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I admit, as a player of ME1 I am disappointed by the comic. But at the same time, it WAS intended solely for people who had never played ME1 to give them an introduction to the setting and story without taking up hours and hours of their time. In that, they succeeded. Obviously for those of us who are intimately familiar with the story, it looks like an absolute mess...but for those newcomers with NO idea what they're getting into...it's probably satisfactory.

#389
Sable Phoenix

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That was...



That was horrible.



They left out more than half the story, and what they did present got even some basic facts wrong. Like the proper spelling of "Kaiden's" name. Wow.

#390
Guest_m14567_*

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I can't say I'm terribly surprised by the 15 minute comic but there appears to be really only 4 possible plot affecting decisions. Spare/Kill Rachni, Spare/Kill Wrex, Save/Sacrifice Council, Udina/Anderson for Councilor.



The bit with the Rachni seems to have been altered, and I would say significantly, in that if you spare her, she wanders off with an army of drones. In the game, she tells you to off them if you haven't already done so.

#391
InvaderErl

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RiouHotaru wrote...

I admit, as a player of ME1 I am disappointed by the comic. But at the same time, it WAS intended solely for people who had never played ME1 to give them an introduction to the setting and story without taking up hours and hours of their time. In that, they succeeded. Obviously for those of us who are intimately familiar with the story, it looks like an absolute mess...but for those newcomers with NO idea what they're getting into...it's probably satisfactory.


dingdingding we have a winner.

#392
bjdbwea

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Part of the problem is obviously that everything that happens in this comic is the new canon (except for the few choices that are left), overriding everything that happened before. Except if BioWare want to admit that this comic was just quickly thrown together, just good enough to give the PS 3 gamers something to make them buy the game, but shouldn't be taken seriously?

Modifié par bjdbwea, 16 janvier 2011 - 08:35 .


#393
InvaderErl

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bjdbwea wrote...

Part of the problem is obviously that everything that happens in this comic is the new canon


That seems a bit of leap to me, do you have a quote?

A 15 minute comic does not supplant a 20-30 hour piece of media.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 16 janvier 2011 - 08:37 .


#394
Vaenier

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RiouHotaru wrote...

I admit, as a player of ME1 I am disappointed by the comic. But at the same time, it WAS intended solely for people who had never played ME1 to give them an introduction to the setting and story without taking up hours and hours of their time. In that, they succeeded. Obviously for those of us who are intimately familiar with the story, it looks like an absolute mess...but for those newcomers with NO idea what they're getting into...it's probably satisfactory.

But they are not getting the ME1 story then, they are just getting something similar. So either they will feel it has been retconned as they play the next two games, or it will be retconned for the rest of the community. When the citadel changes from a single relay to dark space into the controller for multiple relays to darkspace, something has gone horribly wrong. The stuff that is left out is understandable, the stuff that is just plain wrong is sad.

So they get an introduction, but they are told the wrong stuff. So it is not a successful introduction to ME1.

#395
catgirl789

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We shouldn't fly into a panic about how much ME3 is going to suck because of a 15 min comic that's coming out a good ten months or more before the game comes out. True, they botched it on some parts and mishandled others, but it managed to give at least some relevance to the choices that PS3 players will presumably never get to really make.

Also, just because only six main decisions were "counted" in the PS3 version, doesn't mean they will be the only ones counted for PC and 360 players. It's probably just more feasible to choose the six biggest ones rather than scroll through hundreds of minor decisions like "Did you kill all the scientists in that one sidequest, or save them all? What about the biotic extremists? How many times did you cut off the council, and during which conversations?"

I'm not saying it's perfect, but don't start with the prophecies of doom just yet.Image IPB

Modifié par catgirl789, 16 janvier 2011 - 08:48 .


#396
RAF1940

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catgirl789 wrote...

We shouldn't fly into a panic about how much ME3 is going to suck because of a 15 min comic that's coming out a good ten months or more before the game comes out. True, they botched it on some parts and mishandled others, but it managed to give at least some relevance to the choices that PS3 players will presumably never get to really make.

Also, just because only six main decisions were "counted" in the PS3 version, doesn't mean they will be the only ones counted for PC and 360 players. It's probably just more feasible to choose the six biggest ones rather than scroll through hundreds of minor decisions like "Did you kill all the scientists in that one sidequest, or save them all? What about the biotic extremists? How many times did you cut off the council, and during which conversations?"

I'm not saying it's perfect, but don't start with the prophecies of doom just yet.Image IPB


Good point.

#397
fortunesque

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Edit: Nevermind, I thought this was the Kaidan thread because I have it in another tab. Disregard this post :P

Modifié par fortunesque, 16 janvier 2011 - 09:00 .


#398
Asheer_Khan

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What PS3 users get via this comic is like ME 1 movie made by 3 grade director with very tight budget who doesn't care about following script...

#399
EpicBoot2daFace

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Mesina2 wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

I don't care what anybody says, I like Mark Meer's voice. He IS Commander Shepard and this narrration is great. It really adds authenticity to his character, I think. Love it!


Agreed, but I really wanted 3rd person to read comic.
Like Codex narrator or Admiral Hacket


Not too sure about the comic itself, though. It just would have been so much better to have ME1 on PS3 as well. A comic just doesn't do that game justice and you aren't going to feel the same about the decisions you make within it without playing the real game.


For billionth time Microsoft has rights on ME1 and won't let Sony, their biggest competitor, to get any penny from one of their most successful games.

Well, I suppose they've done what they could at least. It's just a shame for PS3 gamers.

Oh, and if anything, this proves that ME1 had a much better story than ME2.


Gee, you just discovered America.:pinched:

Who better to narrate it than the man who lived it? It's his story, afterall.

I know MS has the rights, it's just really disappointing.

True, I have discovered it, but convincing people that it's real is something else entirely. Image IPB

#400
RiouHotaru

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Oh yeah, Garrus and Wrex are ugly as sin. Jesus H. Christ they look bad.