144 réponses à ce sujet

[wolfsite]

War Houndoom wrote...

PnXMarcin1PL wrote...

I have never intended in insulting your intelligence. Just your action attacking the comic ruthlessly. You're right a Shep should have been neutral as he could be in ME1 (ive finished that game more than 10 times) and many times I'd succeded in staying single, but it's not my point. Hetero/****** sexualism is of course natural, but many people worldwide see it as a disease. You know I'm right. I accept homosexual people, damn I even know some of them. It's fine they live like other people (a little bit different as we know), but it's not good for ****** people to make parades where they scream loud "long live homosexualism and quick death for heterosexualism". I read it in newspaper here in my country after such a parade. It's sick. I guess hetero-sexual people should make their own parades as well.
Speaking of ME1. What would you do if You were Shepard and had two female teammates trying to romance you ? Imagine you wouldn't want to hurt their feelings or leave your crew in the worst case. Wouldn't you rather say you have stay focused on the mission instead of saying you're not interested in her ? Forget about homosexualism, because it had been cut out for male players playing MaleShep .

I'm not parading homosexuality.

Speaking of ME-1 did you actually play the game and go through all of the dialogue, do you know how impossible it is to be friendly and be forced into a romance even if you didn't want one? Do you also realize that you have to be romancing both of them to even get at that point of the game? It forces it upon you, no ifs or buts. I've had to restart games just because I was forced into a relationship when I'm trying to do my perfect playthrough.

I have played ME1 several times, it is possible to be friendly.  Yes I have seen the hints and all that but for Liara I put it down to her creating an emotional bond because you saved her (which is perfectly reasonable and happens in real life) you can just tell her she is a good friend or tell her off.

With Ash/Kaiden they assume romantic interest because you keep talking to them about there past, if you show interest they may assume you want to go to the next level which is a prefectly normal thought for someone in that position.

The hint of romance is also there from the crew spreading rumours but again I feel that would be normal on a ship just to talk about something.

But in the end the Comic is based on Mass Effect 1 and in Mass Effect 1 those were the decisions, you were not forced, hell you could stay friends with the person, speak to them as soldiers ot not speak to them at all.


Also again I am basing my assumptions on these situations based on real life moments.  If someone saevd your life yes you would feel attached to them, if someone kept showing interest in your past you may assume that means an interest in you personally.


Or I'm just reading too much into this and you can just base it on the interpretation of the person who wrote the comic

[RaduM]

No,you haven't explained anything, Original Poster. Quite the contrary.

Now, exactly where is the problem?

That potential love interests find Shepard attractive ? That Shepard can find them attractive ( depending on your dialogue choices ) ? Is that's what's wrong? Or the fact that the transition from friendship->romance is desired by the Love Interests ?

I mean, really, you come across as somebody with stunted development in the romance area. Friendship or camaraderie evolving into romance, is that such an abnormal development? You only get girlfriends by picking them up in a bar with cheap lines? Never at school/college/workplace,etc ?

Is it so abnormal for feelings to evolve into romance as you converse with someone, talk about each other's past,convictions, feelings about the past,present,future?

Seriously, what exactly is your problem. Tell me.

Modifié par RaduM, 16 janvier 2011 - 02:06 .

[War Houndoom]

ifander wrote...

If I remember correctly you have to progress quite far into Kaidan's/Ashley's/Liara's convo tree to trigger the actual romance. I remember when I was playing the game for the first time I got this distinctive vibe from some conversations that pursuing it further would lead to a romance, so if I wasn't interested I just stopped it there and then. So obviously, if you want to pursue the conversation further along that path you would be going into romance territory. I still don't see this as forcing players to romance anyone. There's still a lot you can talk about without actually romancing them, you just have to be careful with what you say.

It forces romance if you talk to them in the Paragon way, therefore because talking to them while being nice automatically makes them romance you, it forces the romance upon you with out your choice. I have shown no interest in romancing Ashley, but if I'm nice to her I guess that means I want to romance, or atleast according to Bioware.

[RaduM]

War Houndoom wrote...

ifander wrote...

If I remember correctly you have to progress quite far into Kaidan's/Ashley's/Liara's convo tree to trigger the actual romance. I remember when I was playing the game for the first time I got this distinctive vibe from some conversations that pursuing it further would lead to a romance, so if I wasn't interested I just stopped it there and then. So obviously, if you want to pursue the conversation further along that path you would be going into romance territory. I still don't see this as forcing players to romance anyone. There's still a lot you can talk about without actually romancing them, you just have to be careful with what you say.

It forces romance if you talk to them in the Paragon way, therefore because talking to them while being nice automatically makes them romance you, it forces the romance upon you with out your choice. I have shown no interest in romancing Ashley, but if I'm nice to her I guess that means I want to romance, or atleast according to Bioware.

So if a girl is interested in you and you talk nice and often to her, that she begins to develop romantic feelings towards you, that's a problem. Yeah....

And btw, you CAN turn her down, you must have missed that possible dialogue choice.

Modifié par RaduM, 16 janvier 2011 - 02:09 .

[War Houndoom]

RaduM wrote...

No,you haven't explained anything, Original Poster. Quite the contrary.

Now, exactly where is the problem?

That potential love interests find Shepard attractive ? That Shepard can find them attractive ( depending on your dialogue choices ) ? Is that's what's wrong? Or the fact that the transition from friendship->romance is desired by the Love Interests ?

I mean, really, you come across as somebody with stunted development in the romance area. Friendship or camaraderie evolving into romance, is that such an abnormal development? You only get girlfriends by picking them up in a bar with cheap lines? Never at school/college/workplace,etc ?

Seriously, what exactly is your problem. Tell me.

The problem is the fact that the romance is force upon you, and there is no alternative for people who are gay/bi. You actually seem to have a problem. since all you can do is insult me. You really come across as someone who is Assinine, oops i meant Asinine.

[War Houndoom]

RaduM wrote...

War Houndoom wrote...

ifander wrote...

If I remember correctly you have to progress quite far into Kaidan's/Ashley's/Liara's convo tree to trigger the actual romance. I remember when I was playing the game for the first time I got this distinctive vibe from some conversations that pursuing it further would lead to a romance, so if I wasn't interested I just stopped it there and then. So obviously, if you want to pursue the conversation further along that path you would be going into romance territory. I still don't see this as forcing players to romance anyone. There's still a lot you can talk about without actually romancing them, you just have to be careful with what you say.

It forces romance if you talk to them in the Paragon way, therefore because talking to them while being nice automatically makes them romance you, it forces the romance upon you with out your choice. I have shown no interest in romancing Ashley, but if I'm nice to her I guess that means I want to romance, or atleast according to Bioware.

So if a girl is interested in you and you talk nice and often to her, that she begins to develop romantic feelings towards you, that's a problem. Yeah....

And there is no option saying that you don't want a relationship with her. You really didn't play the first game.

[RaduM]

War Houndoom wrote...

RaduM wrote...

No,you haven't explained anything, Original Poster. Quite the contrary.

Now, exactly where is the problem?

That potential love interests find Shepard attractive ? That Shepard can find them attractive ( depending on your dialogue choices ) ? Is that's what's wrong? Or the fact that the transition from friendship->romance is desired by the Love Interests ?

I mean, really, you come across as somebody with stunted development in the romance area. Friendship or camaraderie evolving into romance, is that such an abnormal development? You only get girlfriends by picking them up in a bar with cheap lines? Never at school/college/workplace,etc ?

Seriously, what exactly is your problem. Tell me.

The problem is the fact that the romance is force upon you, and there is no alternative for people who are gay/bi. You actually seem to have a problem. since all you can do is insult me. You really come across as someone who is Assinine, oops i meant Asinine.

And yet again I turn your attention to the dialogue choices that offer you plenty of occasions to draw the line at friendship and nothing more. One example is this video, there you can see clearly there are occasions to not pursue romance :



Simply because you missed those dialogue choices or had your mouse/keyboard slip and choose the wrong one doesn't mean you can rail how Mass Effect "forces" people into romance. The dialogue trees easily and clearly allow you to avoid romance.

Again, please post either a video or a transcirpt, however crude, of dialogue choices that force you into romance before being actually committed. You keep talking about things that I say don't exist.

Transcript or videos, prove me wrong.

Modifié par RaduM, 16 janvier 2011 - 02:21 .

[Atmosfear3]

Sorry, Shepard is not a fruitcake as much as your fantasies would prefer. Even Ugly Shepard preferred women over other dudes and he wears a pink N7 suit.

[ifander]

War Houndoom wrote...

ifander wrote...

If I remember correctly you have to progress quite far into Kaidan's/Ashley's/Liara's convo tree to trigger the actual romance. I remember when I was playing the game for the first time I got this distinctive vibe from some conversations that pursuing it further would lead to a romance, so if I wasn't interested I just stopped it there and then. So obviously, if you want to pursue the conversation further along that path you would be going into romance territory. I still don't see this as forcing players to romance anyone. There's still a lot you can talk about without actually romancing them, you just have to be careful with what you say.

It forces romance if you talk to them in the Paragon way, therefore because talking to them while being nice automatically makes them romance you, it forces the romance upon you with out your choice. I have shown no interest in romancing Ashley, but if I'm nice to her I guess that means I want to romance, or atleast according to Bioware.

So now you're saying it forces you if you choose certain dialogue options... Think about that for a moment, see if you can figure out if that statement makes any sense, because it makes no sense to me. Of course certain dialogue choices will lead to a romance, and the paragon options make sense in that regard. The things you talk about, and the manner in which you talk about them, are pretty personal and can be considered flirtatious. And again, you have to talk to them a lot if they are to confront you/romance you. It's only natural for them to interpret your interest as being more than friendly. If you don't want to romance them, just choose neutral options when necessary. Or tell them off when they confront you.

Not having played ME1 in a while, I checked out some videos on youtube, and from what I can tell when trying to romance Liara she asks you at one point if there's a mutual attraction there. You can basically say you're interested (paragon), that you want to be friends (neutral) or that she was mistaken (renegade). This is before being grounded in the Citadel and all that. So you're basically being given a choice, despite your claims otherwise, whether you want to pursue a relationship or not. So what's the problem, really?

[War Houndoom]

RaduM wrote...

War Houndoom wrote...

RaduM wrote...

No,you haven't explained anything, Original Poster. Quite the contrary.

Now, exactly where is the problem?

That potential love interests find Shepard attractive ? That Shepard can find them attractive ( depending on your dialogue choices ) ? Is that's what's wrong? Or the fact that the transition from friendship->romance is desired by the Love Interests ?

I mean, really, you come across as somebody with stunted development in the romance area. Friendship or camaraderie evolving into romance, is that such an abnormal development? You only get girlfriends by picking them up in a bar with cheap lines? Never at school/college/workplace,etc ?

Seriously, what exactly is your problem. Tell me.

The problem is the fact that the romance is force upon you, and there is no alternative for people who are gay/bi. You actually seem to have a problem. since all you can do is insult me. You really come across as someone who is Assinine, oops i meant Asinine.

And yet again I turn your attention to the dialogue choices that offer you plenty of occasions to draw the line at friendship and nothing more. One example is this video, there you can see clearly there are occasions to not pursue romance :



Simply because you missed those dialogue choices or had your mouse/keyboard slip and choose the wrong one doesn't mean you can rail how Mass Effect "forces" people into romance. The dialogue trees easily and clearly allow you to avoid romance.

Again, please post either a video or a transcirpt, however crude, of dialogue choices that force you into romance before being actually committed. You keep talking about things that I say don't exist.

Transcript or videos, prove me wrong.

That video proofed nothing but the fact you are of a lower intellignence than I am because you can not win an arguement and yet you ask me for proof when you yourself can't give any proof of what you are saying because dialogue options are just one part of the problem and the fact that that video shows nothing on avoiding the romance, fool. You don't know what you are talking about. You lose, good day sir.

Modifié par War Houndoom, 16 janvier 2011 - 02:29 .

[War Houndoom]

ifander wrote...

War Houndoom wrote...

ifander wrote...

If I remember correctly you have to progress quite far into Kaidan's/Ashley's/Liara's convo tree to trigger the actual romance. I remember when I was playing the game for the first time I got this distinctive vibe from some conversations that pursuing it further would lead to a romance, so if I wasn't interested I just stopped it there and then. So obviously, if you want to pursue the conversation further along that path you would be going into romance territory. I still don't see this as forcing players to romance anyone. There's still a lot you can talk about without actually romancing them, you just have to be careful with what you say.

It forces romance if you talk to them in the Paragon way, therefore because talking to them while being nice automatically makes them romance you, it forces the romance upon you with out your choice. I have shown no interest in romancing Ashley, but if I'm nice to her I guess that means I want to romance, or atleast according to Bioware.

So now you're saying it forces you if you choose certain dialogue options... Think about that for a moment, see if you can figure out if that statement makes any sense, because it makes no sense to me. Of course certain dialogue choices will lead to a romance, and the paragon options make sense in that regard. The things you talk about, and the manner in which you talk about them, are pretty personal and can be considered flirtatious. And again, you have to talk to them a lot if they are to confront you/romance you. It's only natural for them to interpret your interest as being more than friendly. If you don't want to romance them, just choose neutral options when necessary. Or tell them off when they confront you.

Not having played ME1 in a while, I checked out some videos on youtube, and from what I can tell when trying to romance Liara she asks you at one point if there's a mutual attraction there. You can basically say you're interested (paragon), that you want to be friends (neutral) or that she was mistaken (renegade). This is before being grounded in the Citadel and all that. So you're basically being given a choice, despite your claims otherwise, whether you want to pursue a relationship or not. So what's the problem, really?

I was just giving an Example of how it forces you into the romance, there are many other ways. Don't think I don't know what I'm talking about, I've played the first game 10 plus times and am currently playing it right now.

[RaduM]

@Original Poster

1 ) One more insult and I will report you to the admins, are we clear?

2 ) You make a statement. Your statement is " Mass Effect 1 forces players into romance ". Since it is your statement, the burden of proof lies with you .

http://en.wikipedia....burden_of_proof

"When debating any issue, there is an implicit burden of proof on the person asserting a claim.[1]" ( 1 - Michalos, Alex. 1969. Principles of Logic. Englewood Cliffs: Prentice-Hall. p 370 )

Your assertion is " Mass Effect 1 forces romance on players" . The burden of proof lies with you. You made the assertion, you must defend it.

If you refuse,that means you relinquish the validity of your assertion.

Modifié par RaduM, 16 janvier 2011 - 02:38 .

[ifander]

War Houndoom wrote...

ifander wrote...

War Houndoom wrote...

ifander wrote...

If I remember correctly you have to progress quite far into Kaidan's/Ashley's/Liara's convo tree to trigger the actual romance. I remember when I was playing the game for the first time I got this distinctive vibe from some conversations that pursuing it further would lead to a romance, so if I wasn't interested I just stopped it there and then. So obviously, if you want to pursue the conversation further along that path you would be going into romance territory. I still don't see this as forcing players to romance anyone. There's still a lot you can talk about without actually romancing them, you just have to be careful with what you say.

It forces romance if you talk to them in the Paragon way, therefore because talking to them while being nice automatically makes them romance you, it forces the romance upon you with out your choice. I have shown no interest in romancing Ashley, but if I'm nice to her I guess that means I want to romance, or atleast according to Bioware.

So now you're saying it forces you if you choose certain dialogue options... Think about that for a moment, see if you can figure out if that statement makes any sense, because it makes no sense to me. Of course certain dialogue choices will lead to a romance, and the paragon options make sense in that regard. The things you talk about, and the manner in which you talk about them, are pretty personal and can be considered flirtatious. And again, you have to talk to them a lot if they are to confront you/romance you. It's only natural for them to interpret your interest as being more than friendly. If you don't want to romance them, just choose neutral options when necessary. Or tell them off when they confront you.

Not having played ME1 in a while, I checked out some videos on youtube, and from what I can tell when trying to romance Liara she asks you at one point if there's a mutual attraction there. You can basically say you're interested (paragon), that you want to be friends (neutral) or that she was mistaken (renegade). This is before being grounded in the Citadel and all that. So you're basically being given a choice, despite your claims otherwise, whether you want to pursue a relationship or not. So what's the problem, really?

I was just giving an Example of how it forces you into the romance, there are many other ways. Don't think I don't know what I'm talking about, I've played the first game 10 plus times and am currently playing it right now.

I was not aware of there being other ways to initiate a romance other than speaking to the person in question. Are you denying then that choosing the friends option ends the romance? Because if not I'd like to know, and no I don't care that you've played the game ten times and that you're playing it right now, that's hardly a compelling argument. 

[Alaethyr]

ifander wrote...

War Houndoom wrote...

ifander wrote...

If I remember correctly you have to progress quite far into Kaidan's/Ashley's/Liara's convo tree to trigger the actual romance. I remember when I was playing the game for the first time I got this distinctive vibe from some conversations that pursuing it further would lead to a romance, so if I wasn't interested I just stopped it there and then. So obviously, if you want to pursue the conversation further along that path you would be going into romance territory. I still don't see this as forcing players to romance anyone. There's still a lot you can talk about without actually romancing them, you just have to be careful with what you say.

It forces romance if you talk to them in the Paragon way, therefore because talking to them while being nice automatically makes them romance you, it forces the romance upon you with out your choice. I have shown no interest in romancing Ashley, but if I'm nice to her I guess that means I want to romance, or atleast according to Bioware.

So now you're saying it forces you if you choose certain dialogue options... Think about that for a moment, see if you can figure out if that statement makes any sense, because it makes no sense to me. Of course certain dialogue choices will lead to a romance, and the paragon options make sense in that regard. The things you talk about, and the manner in which you talk about them, are pretty personal and can be considered flirtatious. And again, you have to talk to them a lot if they are to confront you/romance you. It's only natural for them to interpret your interest as being more than friendly. If you don't want to romance them, just choose neutral options when necessary. Or tell them off when they confront you.

Not having played ME1 in a while, I checked out some videos on youtube, and from what I can tell when trying to romance Liara she asks you at one point if there's a mutual attraction there. You can basically say you're interested (paragon), that you want to be friends (neutral) or that she was mistaken (renegade). This is before being grounded in the Citadel and all that. So you're basically being given a choice, despite your claims otherwise, whether you want to pursue a relationship or not. So what's the problem, really?

QFT. I've read through all the posts on this thread, and this is exactly what I was thinking. There is a neutral option to just be friend, so no you are not forced to romance them. Yes it is annoying that the paragon option is considered romancing, whilst the renegade is just being a jackass, so I can understand what you mean by playing the game as complete paragon and ending up having to romance them. However it was stated before that you DON'T have to continue to have conversations with them, also you can choose the neutral option. I know it won't get you any paragon points, but if that's how you want to roleplay your shepard, by being bi/gay then choose the neutral one and you won't be a jackass. 

its the same with many of the paragon/renegade choices. For instance
Why is it in ME2 if I shock the guy who repairs the helicopter, it is considered renegade? I mean I would be helping garrus, and because I don't he gets all ugly DX
Why is it at the end of ME2 if i choose the renengade option, my crew are all skeptical... in my opinion it is the OBVIOUS choice, choosing the paragon is just stupid and I can't see how it is a good thing at all, not when we are facing an entire army of reapers

I may disagree with how the devs made the certain choices renegade or paragon, but I can't do anything but pick what I think my character would do. Therefore just pick the neutral option if thats what your shep would do.

As for why there is no option for M/M relationships, I cannot answer and only the devs can. But to be honest that's how it is. Male shepard isn't gay. Maybe he will become bi in ME3 who knows... 

[SomeKindaEnigma]

Hmm lets see, include a same sex romance option in the PS3 version of the ME1 story that way the 360/pc players who would like to see it are left without it and Bioware has a new fanmade headache to deal with (terminus system armor/weapon among other things, if you fail to catch my drift). Right. The romance is forced, although you have the chance to tell them "the mission is too damn important", always have and always will. Right. Get over it, you truly are the community complainer/whiner. The mass effect games are apparently not even close to your all-encompassing standards which leads me to ask, why do you continue to play it if all you do is cry about the smallest of inconsistencies/things not up to speed as far as your expectations go? And why do you cry about it on the forums where every time you post it seems like over 90% of the other users disagree with you? Need attention? If that's the case you surely are succeeding. However, bare in mind not all attention is good attention. I would think that is something someone should figure out on their own though.

[War Houndoom]

RaduM wrote...

@Original Poster

1 ) One more insult and I will report you to the admins, are we clear?

2 ) You make a statement. Your statement is " Mass Effect 1 forces players into romance ". Since it is your statement, the burden of proof lies with you .

http://en.wikipedia....burden_of_proof

"When debating any issue, there is an implicit burden of proof on the person asserting a claim.[1]" ( 1 - Michalos, Alex. 1969. Principles of Logic. Englewood Cliffs: Prentice-Hall. p 370 )

Your assertion is " Mass Effect 1 forces romance on players" . The burden of proof lies with you. You made the assertion, you must defend it.

If you refuse,that means you relinquish the validity of your assertion.

Lulz you're the one who insulted me first, and I've already reported you.

[RaduM]

War Houndoom wrote...

Lulz you're the one who insulted me first, and I've already reported you.

"Lulz"... yeah <_< Thank you for the very mature reply. Still waiting on that proof.

Modifié par RaduM, 16 janvier 2011 - 02:47 .

[War Houndoom]

RaduM wrote...

War Houndoom wrote...

Lulz you're the one who insulted me first, and I've already reported you.

Thank you for the very mature reply. Still waiting on that proof.

If you want to talk about mature look at your first post. You lose, good day sir.

[WidowMaker9394]

I "like" animals.



Bioware insults my integrity by not including such a romance.

[RaduM]

War Houndoom wrote...

RaduM wrote...

War Houndoom wrote...

Lulz you're the one who insulted me first, and I've already reported you.

Thank you for the very mature reply. Still waiting on that proof.

If you want to talk about mature look at your first post. You lose, good day sir.

And yet you still failed to provide proof, even a shred, video or transcript that shows how you can be forced into romance in ME 1. I say your claim is false. You made the claim, you must prove its validity and defend it.

If evidence abounds,you can point to it and win the argument with but one link or a few transcript lines.

Modifié par RaduM, 16 janvier 2011 - 02:50 .

[silver_sparrow]

How are you forced into a romance? theres's a "neither" option.

[PnXMarcin1PL]

War Houndoom, your first post is clear but I think you shoul've presented your opinion gently, so people wouldn't attack you and make you counter-attack.

[ifander]

I don't know what RaduM wrote to upset you War, and it really holds no relevance here since his point is valid. If you make a claim, it is up to you to back it up with fact and proof otherwise there's no point in making such a claim since you can't really defend it. Judging by the way you're avoiding this, you have no proof, and are basically stating an opinion, not a fact.

[Alaethyr]

in the same sense as Male Shep how come there are no black women to romance? why? isn't that racist?

Can't have everything, there is only so much they could add



as for the people who said "oh its ok for fem shep to romance liara F/F is ok!" well thats not true technically since asari have no such thing as males, then they can't be females, so its more xeno