Vaenier wrote...
You could also argue they are all like Humans because of convergent evolution. The human way of thinking was most beneficial to survival and advancement, and thus other planets ended up evolving to it on their own, or something like that. Its just an idea.
Vaenier wrote...
You could also argue they are all like Humans because of convergent evolution. The human way of thinking was most beneficial to survival and advancement, and thus other planets ended up evolving to it on their own, or something like that. Its just an idea.
Yes, but that only goes so far. Basically, it explains a humanoid general morphology, and possibly some aspects of social behaviour. But:Vaenier wrote...
You could also argue they are all like Humans because of convergent evolution. The human way of thinking was most beneficial to survival and advancement, and thus other planets ended up evolving to it on their own, or something like that. Its just an idea.
1. Maybe. Maybe the translator translates body language?Ieldra2 wrote...
Yes, but that only goes so far. Basically, it explains a humanoid general morphology, and possibly some aspects of social behaviour. But:
(1) If you can intuitively read an alien's body language, then it's too human for "convergent evolution" to explain.
(2) If an alien appears sexually attractive to a standard human, likewise.
These traits depend on co-evolution, they develop only in interaction between individuals, while you can justify "general humanoid appearance" by environmental factors. So plainly the asari are the worst offenders, followed by the batarians and the quarians. Even the turians and the volus have human-readable body language - recall how you can read how tired Garrus is when you meet him first? That shouldn't happen with aliens, humanoid or not.
I didn't criticize Wrex.Archontor wrote...
rokeeb wrote...
Dean_the_Young wrote...
Krogan are the most alien aliens in Mass Effect, bar possibly the Rachni and the Reapers. If they weren't bipedal, and didn't have Wrex, they'd be great: distinctly non-human, innately different psychology, biology trumping sci fi kumbyyah, and so on.
Wait, Wrex makes the Krogan NOT great?
*faints*
He critisezes Wrex his argument is invalid
Dean_the_Young wrote...
I didn't criticize Wrex.Archontor wrote...
rokeeb wrote...
Dean_the_Young wrote...
Krogan are the most alien aliens in Mass Effect, bar possibly the Rachni and the Reapers. If they weren't bipedal, and didn't have Wrex, they'd be great: distinctly non-human, innately different psychology, biology trumping sci fi kumbyyah, and so on.
Wait, Wrex makes the Krogan NOT great?
*faints*
He critisezes Wrex his argument is invalid
Building practical items for war,travel and overall enjoyment would be difficult for a four legged species. Now you can have intelligence with it, but you would sacrifice a lot for it to work. Also, if we are talking about centaurs here then sure, but people like the Elcor do not work as well as us, doesn't mean they aren't intelligent.Dean_the_Young wrote...
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Bipedal has nothing to do with it. Intelligence, and opposable digits, do.
In fact, bipedal is actually a structurally poor form: physically, humans suck in pretty much every category to everyone else. We just evolved the digits and the brains to develop supperior tools to overcome those weaknesses, but the evolutionary trade-off between biped-with-manipulators only applies to those evolutionary lines that only developed four limbs to work with. Four legs with two arms would be far more stable and effective in many ways.
Dean_the_Young wrote...
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Bipedal has nothing to do with it. Intelligence, and opposable digits, do.
In fact, bipedal is actually a structurally poor form: physically, humans suck in pretty much every category to everyone else. We just evolved the digits and the brains to develop supperior tools to overcome those weaknesses, but the evolutionary trade-off between biped-with-manipulators only applies to those evolutionary lines that only developed four limbs to work with. Four legs with two arms would be far more stable and effective in many ways.
TheRealIncarnal wrote...
I figured the Salarians have a higher IQ than Humans on average, possibly the same is true for the Asari, and Turians are barely sentient. The Krogan are very different from us, and I really enjoy that. I'd really like to get to know the Elcor better though, they're a very interesting bunch who are absolutely different from us.
Building bi-pedal designed technology with bi-pedal conceptions about how things should be might be difficult, but they aren't going to be designing houses and stairs and cars comfortable for bi-pedals. They're going to design things comfortable for them.Dionkey wrote...
Building practical items for war,travel and overall enjoyment would be difficult for a four legged species. Now you can have intelligence with it, but you would sacrifice a lot for it to work. Also, if we are talking about centaurs here then sure, but people like the Elcor do not work as well as us, doesn't mean they aren't intelligent.Dean_the_Young wrote...
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Bipedal has nothing to do with it. Intelligence, and opposable digits, do.
In fact, bipedal is actually a structurally poor form: physically, humans suck in pretty much every category to everyone else. We just evolved the digits and the brains to develop supperior tools to overcome those weaknesses, but the evolutionary trade-off between biped-with-manipulators only applies to those evolutionary lines that only developed four limbs to work with. Four legs with two arms would be far more stable and effective in many ways.
The best climbers and jumpers in the world aren't bipedal. Pumas can jump fifteen feet into the air (five times their body height), while fleas can jump a hundred times their body size.Archontor wrote...
Dean_the_Young wrote...
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Bipedal has nothing to do with it. Intelligence, and opposable digits, do.
In fact, bipedal is actually a structurally poor form: physically, humans suck in pretty much every category to everyone else. We just evolved the digits and the brains to develop supperior tools to overcome those weaknesses, but the evolutionary trade-off between biped-with-manipulators only applies to those evolutionary lines that only developed four limbs to work with. Four legs with two arms would be far more stable and effective in many ways.
it's worse for climbing and straight verical jumps i'd imagine (not suitable for tree living creatures which are the ancestors of the sapient being i know of) also it makes them inherently larger making them easier to see, harder to hide and harder to maintain never mind i
Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 16 janvier 2011 - 03:47 .
Pretty much this; you can leave out the great part and it'll still largely ring true.Deathwurm wrote...
I believe that this is due to the fact that all Great Fiction is meant to reflect "The Human Condition"...Aliens in Science Fiction are meant to reflect aspects of ourselves...just my Opinion.
Dean_the_Young wrote...
The best climbers and jumpers in the world aren't bipedal. Pumas can jump fifteen feet into the air (five times their body height), while fleas can jump a hundred times their body size.Archontor wrote...
Dean_the_Young wrote...
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Bipedal has nothing to do with it. Intelligence, and opposable digits, do.
In fact, bipedal is actually a structurally poor form: physically, humans suck in pretty much every category to everyone else. We just evolved the digits and the brains to develop supperior tools to overcome those weaknesses, but the evolutionary trade-off between biped-with-manipulators only applies to those evolutionary lines that only developed four limbs to work with. Four legs with two arms would be far more stable and effective in many ways.
it's worse for climbing and straight verical jumps i'd imagine (not suitable for tree living creatures which are the ancestors of the sapient being i know of) also it makes them inherently larger making them easier to see, harder to hide and harder to maintain never mind i
Even monkeys and apes aren't solely bipdeal: as climbers and as movers, they remain in large part quadrapedal, while many species (snakes, bugs, even big cats) remain far more proficient at climbing trees and such than humans.
(Edit: Not a disagreement with you, I think, just an expansion of the point.)
The evolutionary advantage of humans isn't that we're more capable than other animals: by and large we're slower, weaker, and more ungangly than most animals in their evolved habitats.
What humans had the advantage, of, was flexibility in multiple habitats (not as good as any, but better than the rest), and tools.
And mastering fire. All animals, even predators that can maul us, fear fire.
Convincing argument, I was going about it wrong.Dean_the_Young wrote...
Building bi-pedal designed technology with bi-pedal conceptions about how things should be might be difficult, but they aren't going to be designing houses and stairs and cars comfortable for bi-pedals. They're going to design things comfortable for them.
A four legged species doesn't mean it only has four limbs. That's an evolutionary lock of human mamal biology, and doesn't even hold true across the earth biosphere (where insects and bugs have many more limbs). We can look to Centaurs as a model, or Rachni. Even a bear with better hands and a brain.
The key to successful civilization is brains and manipulators, and less of everything else. The reason the Elcor are poor fighters isn't because they walk on all four limbs, but because the environment in which they evolved was poor and too heavy in gravity (leading to slowness and other limitations).
The reason the Hanar are 'weak' is because they're aquatic by evolution, and because plot-hammering makes building robotic armies not an option.
There is no advantage in 'bipedal' evolution over any other sort, except in so much that on Earth that meant manipulators could evolve. That is not a required tradeoff in any other evolutionary scheme, nor is it even an absolute on Earth: monkeys have better/more manipulators than humans (feet-hands, tales), they just lack comparative intelligence at this time in evolution.
Eddo36 wrote...
I've come to the conclusion that the alien races are psychologically same to humans and with the same average IQ. Same mental behavior, just different body forms. Oddly.
Salarians may talk a bit faster, and asari may have more life experience by living 1000 years, but that's it. Turian honor is only a cultural and not a racial thing.
Modifié par Bad King, 16 janvier 2011 - 04:00 .
Eddo36 wrote...
I've come to the conclusion that the alien races are psychologically same to humans and with the same average IQ. Same mental behavior, just different body forms. Oddly.
Salarians may talk a bit faster, and asari may have more life experience by living 1000 years, but that's it. Turian honor is only a cultural and not a racial thing.
Archontor, when was the last time you walked two hours without stopping, let alone stayed up two days without any physical exertion?Archontor wrote...
terribly sorry i missinterpreted quadrapedal to mean two legged specificaly not anything that uses four limbs to mave the majoraty of the time however must point out that humans have very high levely of endurance, according to tv tropes if we don't exceed walking pace we can go for 2 days without stopping this is partialy due to being bipedal as we have less limbs to move to keep going forward
Dean_the_Young wrote...
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Bipedal has nothing to do with it. Intelligence, and opposable digits, do.
In fact, bipedal is actually a structurally poor form: physically, humans suck in pretty much every category to everyone else. We just evolved the digits and the brains to develop supperior tools to overcome those weaknesses, but the evolutionary trade-off between biped-with-manipulators only applies to those evolutionary lines that only developed four limbs to work with. Four legs with two arms would be far more stable and effective in many ways.
Dean_the_Young wrote...
Archontor, when was the last time you walked two hours without stopping, let alone stayed up two days without any physical exertion?Archontor wrote...
terribly sorry i missinterpreted quadrapedal to mean two legged specificaly not anything that uses four limbs to mave the majoraty of the time however must point out that humans have very high levely of endurance, according to tv tropes if we don't exceed walking pace we can go for 2 days without stopping this is partialy due to being bipedal as we have less limbs to move to keep going forward
A human can out-walk a horse, but a horse can still cover a lot more ground a lot faster than a human can. The cases where we out-endure an animal are both rare and not the reason we dominante them evolution-wise.
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