1252 réponses à ce sujet

[tmp7704]

vilnii wrote...

How anyone can fight with all that clutter beats me. Talk less of the acrobatics Isabella uses in combat

I want to see Isabela fight on top of huge, rolling water wheel.

Modifié par tmp7704, 17 janvier 2011 - 01:28 .

[Xewaka]

tmp7704 wrote...

vilnii wrote...
How anyone can fight with all that clutter beats me. Talk less of the acrobatics Isabella uses in combat

I want to see Isabela fight on top of huge, rolling water wheel.

I want to see Isabela fighting with a padded cloth jacket and a wide-brimmed hat. For a supposedly pragmatic and skilled duelist, she ought to know that protection in combat is necessary. I don't mind her flaunting her huge tracts of land off combat -hell, I'm all for it-, but if she's coming to a dungeon, flashing darkspawn will do her little service.

[Pwnsaur]

There doesn't seem to be an argument here, such as Gaider explained realism had no impact on design choices. While I think this is moronic, it pretty much defeats any opposition to the overly revealing and nonsensical 'armor' choices of some characters. Until video games are made by mature women, this will always be the case. Men have proven that when given the opportunity to create 'idealized' women as Gaider put it, it will always be the 'ideal' to make them dress for appearance first, and practicality second.



I understand that Isabela is a very promiscuous lady, and that should definitely come across in her 'street clothes.' There is, however, no excuse for her battle attire. Aside from it being an overly sexualized ideal formed in the minds of male game designers, of course. If this were not the case, why are the men not dressed in impractical sexualized armor? Exactly.



This is all coming from a young(ish) heterosexual male, as well.

Modifié par Pwnsaur, 17 janvier 2011 - 02:25 .

[tmp7704]

Xewaka wrote...

I want to see Isabela fighting with a padded cloth jacket and a wide-brimmed hat.

Oh it looks padded enough to me as it is.

/rimshot

[_Aine_]

I dunno, I am a woman (though I hesitate to say mature) and I think it is a good decision for a) a characters attire to at least make sense to their character and yes have a good saleable, marketable set of characters with obvious...attributes, of whichever flavour you are selling for that character. I don't see anything amiss on that front, despite the fact that it *is* almost bordering on camp. Which, isn't necessarily bad at all. As Oscar Wilde said: "One should either be a work of art, or wear a work of art." Her art is her craft, so to speak so....



She is merely a physical representation of her character traits. That and she probably carries a lot of bosom jokes, very well. And pants jokes. Whether in game or in forum. Am I fond of always seeing a stereotype? Not really. It gets old. BUT, in *this* case, it fits the story line well and I think that is the important thing. I wish she had some jaunty pants on, surely, but more because it doesn't quite make sense, than because it shows leg. *shrug* I am not a person who likes things 100% realistic all the time, but I do like things to be logical, at least some of the time.



It isn't unlike people having criticisms about a female warrior being too butch to be a LI. Neither are especially a marker of *Truth* but both are enduring stereotypes. I think Bosoms more than Butch sell the greater amount of video games however, fairly or not.



Bottom line: Her clothes make sense to her character. If you think about RL, and people with similar motives, her top is fairly modest. She is probably just pulling a Gaga with the pants thing.

[CuthbertTheAllgood]

I agree with OP; while no matter what mail will not stop a broadsword, you're supposed to parry those. Mail is meant to take slashing wounds, and is mostly effective at doing so, so coving your breasts serves no point, because they're aiming for your stomach.

[tmp7704]

CuthbertTheAllgood wrote...

I agree with OP; while no matter what mail will not stop a broadsword, you're supposed to parry those. Mail is meant to take slashing wounds, and is mostly effective at doing so, so coving your breasts serves no point, because they're aiming for your stomach.

Does that make generations of armoursmiths incredibly dumb for trying to protect the chest area, when they could've used the same amount of materials to craft twice as many stomach covers?

[Moirnelithe]

I happen to like my female characters looking sexy and in sexy clothing, it's a game for crying out loud. They're a bunch of pixels, so what if they're not heavily armored, just pretend it's magical armor, looking at the stats they probably are anyway. I really adore the armor in Lineage 2, have a look at that and tell me that's not to die for.

[ReallyRue]

Whether I like sexy outfits on my character depends on her personality. My Chantry-loving girl wasn't likely to wear skimpy outfits, whilst my mischevious mage wandered around practically in her underwear.
What I do care about is a mix of practical and skimpy (which DA had a good amount of), and also, a mix for the men.
I wouldn't say no to a male Hawke in the underpants + cape style of 300

[terrordactyl1]

I always find these nudity posts absolutely absurd. The whole premise of the game is about chopping people into small pieces with a huge axe.....somehow mass murder is fine, just so long as we don't get a glimpse of a stray naked ankle in the process.



Has the world gone bonkers?? You do realise that a dead woman that's been decapitated and chopped into 75 bits before being flame grilled by a fireball sin't going to be thinking "hmm, hope I'm not showing any cleavage".

[ReallyRue]

terrordactyl1 wrote...

Has the world gone bonkers?? You do realise that a dead woman that's been decapitated and chopped into 75 bits before being flame grilled by a fireball sin't going to be thinking "hmm, hope I'm not showing any cleavage".

WWAD. What Would Andraste Do? Not decapitate people in her underwear, that's what

[Addai]

Evainelithe wrote...

I happen to like my female characters looking sexy and in sexy clothing, it's a game for crying out loud. They're a bunch of pixels, so what if they're not heavily armored, just pretend it's magical armor, looking at the stats they probably are anyway. I really adore the armor in Lineage 2, have a look at that and tell me that's not to die for.

I don't mind "reasonably" sexy, though I guess my taste in sexy differs since I think Marian is the hottest babe we've seen so far.  One thing that bothers me about Isabela's big boobs and outfit is how uncomfortable it looks.  Back pain, sore breasts and chafing aren't sexy.  Just my hang-up I guess.

I suspect it will be like with Miranda, where I actually liked the character alright, but never took her out on missions because the catwoman pantsuit annoyed me.  C'est la vie.

Modifié par Addai67, 17 janvier 2011 - 04:04 .

[deserk]

I am visually sensitive to skin as well. I would like the option of having every female character wrapped in a bed sheet. Or every character. Or... just don't depict anything in the game at all. Just make it a big black screen and send me the sound files.

Then I'll rant about the sound files.

Modifié par deserk, 17 janvier 2011 - 04:09 .

[PrinceOfFallout13]

Pwnsaur wrote...

There doesn't seem to be an argument here, such as Gaider explained realism had no impact on design choices. While I think this is moronic, it pretty much defeats any opposition to the overly revealing and nonsensical 'armor' choices of some characters. Until video games are made by mature women, this will always be the case. Men have proven that when given the opportunity to create 'idealized' women as Gaider put it, it will always be the 'ideal' to make them dress for appearance first, and practicality second.

I understand that Isabela is a very promiscuous lady, and that should definitely come across in her 'street clothes.' There is, however, no excuse for her battle attire. Aside from it being an overly sexualized ideal formed in the minds of male game designers, of course. If this were not the case, why are the men not dressed in impractical sexualized armor? Exactly.

This is all coming from a young(ish) heterosexual male, as well.

so you think the female writters in the dev team are inmature? <_<

[ScotGaymer]

I dont mind sexy women and men.

Being gay it has given me a unique perspective on it all; and I can certainly appreciate a sexy woman aesthetically.

I just object when the sexy becomes mere fanservice. Boobies and Bums flashing and out just to make silly little boys littler boy stand at attention; and frankly if anyone actually get off on a bunch of pixel boobs being flashed at you then there is something seriously mentally wrong with you and you need to seek help immediately.
Its silly and wrong and only perpetrates a stereotype about gamers (especially male gamers) - and women - that is as unfair, damaging, and horrible as the stereotypes that are inflcited upon "my kind".

In the case of Morrigan her outfit was sexy but also appropriate for her except for one problem the climate.
Ferelden is a temperate/cold climate similar to the climate of middle England which means heavy rains, cold winds, and very cold snowy winters; and the further south you go from Ferelden into the Korcari Wilds and south beyond in the lands of the Chasind, and even further beyond the more and more the climate gets like Scotland and then i presume Iceland/Norway.
And believe me living in Scotland/the UK I know how bloody freezing cold it gets. Very few people in Scotland would walk about wearing clothes analagous to Morrigan's except during an unseasonably warm summer. And the impression I get is the game doesnt start untill later in the year with winter approaching.
It is the climate that she lives in that renders her outfit nonsensical; she should long since be dead of some disease related to the cold weather magic not withstanding.

To prove my point I will talk about Bioware's other FanService Doll Miranda.

If you manage to pursue a successful friendship (either cos ur really careful or cos ur FemShep) with her she turns out to be a semi decent person; and I dont mind her sexy uniform. It makes sense given her personality and background.
Thus I have no objection to it.

Except when it comes to missions. Then it just makes little sense; it offers no protection in a firefight nor does it protect against vacumn or toxic atmospheres (which the Normandy crew do visit planets and places without atmosphere or with toxic atmosphere).
And before someone offers the Mass Effect fields and Breathers arguement; that arguement doesnt make sense either. To refute that arguement i point out the following: SKIN IS POROUS. And also: MASS EFFECT FIELDS DO NOT KEEP OUT/KEEP IN AIR MOLECULES.
So Miri being exposed via her ****** to the vacumn of space or to a poisonous atmosphere would delibitate or possibly kill her in spite of the mass effect field and breather unit.

I know it wont be implemented but ideally each character in DA2 and ME3 should have a casual/atmospheric outfit that they wear in "safe" areas (in camp or aboard normandy or in kirkwall or on illium) and armoured/battle outfit they wear when on missions/quests.
That way both the fanservice sides and realism sides get what they want.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 17 janvier 2011 - 04:54 .

[Pwnsaur]

PrinceOfFallout13 wrote...
so you think the female writters in the dev team are inmature? <_<

Thanks for basically ignoring my entire post and boiling it down to 'putting a phrase in my mouth' diversion debate tactics. *sigh*

But I'll play along...

Yes, I believe they are somewhat immature. I feel that you kind of have to be in order to create fantastical video games about dragons, trolls, jedi, spirit monks, space aliens, etc. I do not think this in and of itself is a bad thing, quite the opposite. To be able to use your childish imagination to fantasize about alternate realities with monsters and quests is great.

I also, for the record have absolutely no aversion to nudity or sexuality in video games. It's not that I am opposed to the inclusion of these portions of the game at all, they make sense. And that is exactly why I don't like the battle attire to look sexualized, because it doesn't make sense. Re-read my post and address any point I made, or don't. Either way I'm not going to start repeating myself, as I've said what I wanted to say.

[Addai]

PrinceOfFallout13 wrote...
so you think the female writters in the dev team are inmature? <_<

I assume that the writers don't create concept art.  Though I guess they would be able to give input.

I was trying to think of other female pirates I've seen.  Could only come up with Geena Davis and Keira Knightley, and they look pretty good despite not having parts hanging out.  Go on and try to tell me Geena Davis isn't sexy.  I dare ya!

[The Elder King]

Pwnsaur wrote...

PrinceOfFallout13 wrote...
so you think the female writters in the dev team are inmature? <_<

Thanks for basically ignoring my entire post and boiling it down to 'putting a phrase in my mouth' diversion debate tactics. *sigh*

But I'll play along...

Yes, I believe they are somewhat immature. I feel that you kind of have to be in order to create fantastical video games about dragons, trolls, jedi, spirit monks, space aliens, etc. I do not think this in and of itself is a bad thing, quite the opposite. To be able to use your childish imagination to fantasize about alternate realities with monsters and quests is great.

I also, for the record have absolutely no aversion to nudity or sexuality in video games. It's not that I am opposed to the inclusion of these portions of the game at all, they make sense. And that is exactly why I don't like the battle attire to look sexualized, because it doesn't make sense. Re-read my post and address any point I made, or don't. Either way I'm not going to start repeating myself, as I've said what I wanted to say.

Just to know your opinion.  What do you think about Lewis and Tolkien? I know that you're talking about the writers in VG, but I'm interested anyway about them.

[Pwnsaur]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

I know it wont be implemented but ideally each character in DA2 and ME3 should have a casual/atmospheric outfit that they wear in "safe" areas (in camp or aboard normandy or in kirkwall or on illium) and armoured/battle outfit they wear when on missions/quests.
That way both the fanservice sides and realism sides get what they want.

I found your entire post to be spot on, especially this last part. The problem, however, is that David Gaider explicitly stated realism had no real bearing on the artistic direction. I mentioned in my above post my disappointment in this decision, but ultimately it immediately defeats the argument for realism. If the game is not considering realism, then it makes no sense to argue a 'lack of realism.' It would be like attacking spongebob for being unrealistic from an oceanography standpoint; futile.

I am not offended by sexuality and nudity, I am actually completely opposed to censorship of any kind. I am, however, opposed to things that seem dumb. Your post captures exactly why I agree that it's dumb to make armor 'sexy' instead of at least somewhat practical. Your solution is exactly what I would recommend for a game trying to be both sexy and realistic, but that is not Dragon Age, unfortunately.

[darth_lopez]

tmp7704 wrote...

CuthbertTheAllgood wrote...

I agree with OP; while no matter what mail will not stop a broadsword, you're supposed to parry those. Mail is meant to take slashing wounds, and is mostly effective at doing so, so coving your breasts serves no point, because they're aiming for your stomach.

Does that make generations of armoursmiths incredibly dumb for trying to protect the chest area, when they could've used the same amount of materials to craft twice as many stomach covers?

the stomachs a good kill area. While the chest has the important lungs and heart there and sternum it can be much easier to defend with or with out armor, siting martial arts and boxing alone for this one. The stomach still contains a horde of vital organs and at a smidgen of the natural protection your chest does i.e. there's no rib cage and sternum to make penetrating through the stomach harder. Personally i don't thinkg many can still stand after having their pancreas, stomach, liver, and spinal corde stabbed through.

[Pwnsaur]

hhh89 wrote...

Just to know your opinion.  What do you think about Lewis and Tolkien? I know that you're talking about the writers in VG, but I'm interested anyway about them.

My opinion would be that they are brilliant.

[Pwnsaur]

Addai67 wrote...
I was trying to think of other female pirates I've seen.  Could only come up with Geena Davis and Keira Knightley, and they look pretty good despite not having parts hanging out.  Go on and try to tell me Geena Davis isn't sexy.  I dare ya!

Exactly.

[Schuback]

And you claim you are straight? Fail!

[Pwnsaur]

Schuback wrote...

And you claim you are straight? Fail!

Well... I just got out of a grueling 5-year relationship... I'm kind of feeling asexual right now... Ready for a break...

[AlanC9]

Xewaka wrote...
For a supposedly pragmatic and skilled duelist, she ought to know that protection in combat is necessary.

Wasn't the time to play that card back when DAO shipped and we saw the Dalish Leather armor for the first time?

And people very well have made the argument then; I wasn't on the boards around the time DAO released, so I wouldn't know. But I don't remember hearing people complain about it much since.