1252 réponses à ce sujet

[FurousJoe]

crimzontearz wrote...

FurousJoe wrote...

DSerpa wrote...

A broadsword to the chest is fatal. Doesn't matter if you're wearing a bikini or plate armor. Realism only goes so far.

Actually not that simple. many factors come into play here:

What type of armor? What quality of armor? What type of Broadsword? What quality of Broadsword? What skill/strength of attacker? What condition of victim?

It's actually harder than you think to piece a thick piece of solid steel. More often than not the damage would actually be blunt instead of slashing/penetrating, which depending on the condition of victim, eg. muscles etc. could be either fatal or not.

also

try perforating a full on place with just a dagger.....tell me it's JUST as hard as stabbing a random bikini clad girl in the boobs.......I DARE you

Exactly, blunt weapons or just swords with a lot of weight behind them is needed to do anything really, a knife would do nothing more than scratch/glance off depending on where you strike the armor.

[Dhiro]

David Gaider wrote...

I think the point here is whether female characters are ALWAYS in overly sexy outfits, as the thread title suggests.

No, they're not. It really depends on the character-- some are going to be sexy, while others are much more modest. Otherwise, while we may not toss out the bikini chain mail a la Frank Frazetta we aren't particularly opposed to having some sexy or revealing outfits. Every character in the game is pretty much idealized, and don't take much "realism" into account with regards to the protectiveness of their coverings.

In other words, we're not going to lace everyone up to the collar and cover their ankles just so some folks don't get into a huff.

I demand men in sexy and/or revealing outfits! Isabela shouldn't be the only one who can go pantless :<

[Blackout62]

Shinannigan wrote...

Well, alright, although skintight chainmail doesn't protect either, except from dinner-grade cutlery. Sticks and Stones still break the bones. And so do swords.

Good chance it chafes, too.

That having been said, I like Bethany's outfit. *sigh* I'm such a dude...

Point be made a properly fitted chainmail is supposed to hug rather close to the skin.

[FurousJoe]

Blackout62 wrote...

Shinannigan wrote...

Well, alright, although skintight chainmail doesn't protect either, except from dinner-grade cutlery. Sticks and Stones still break the bones. And so do swords.

Good chance it chafes, too.

That having been said, I like Bethany's outfit. *sigh* I'm such a dude...

Point be made a properly fitted chainmail is supposed to hug rather close to the skin.

This might sound like a stupid question but why is this? If a blow with a sword hits a chainmail, wouldn't it be better to have it slightly lose so it can actually recoil/absorb the kinetic energy a bit before it transfers into your body mass?

[crimzontearz]

FurousJoe wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

FurousJoe wrote...

DSerpa wrote...

A broadsword to the chest is fatal. Doesn't matter if you're wearing a bikini or plate armor. Realism only goes so far.

Actually not that simple. many factors come into play here:

What type of armor? What quality of armor? What type of Broadsword? What quality of Broadsword? What skill/strength of attacker? What condition of victim?

It's actually harder than you think to piece a thick piece of solid steel. More often than not the damage would actually be blunt instead of slashing/penetrating, which depending on the condition of victim, eg. muscles etc. could be either fatal or not.

also

try perforating a full on place with just a dagger.....tell me it's JUST as hard as stabbing a random bikini clad girl in the boobs.......I DARE you

Exactly, blunt weapons or just swords with a lot of weight behind them is needed to do anything really, a knife would do nothing more than scratch/glance off depending on where you strike the armor.

with that in mind I'd be VERY happy if isabela at least wore some leathers god dammit.......I understand dodging and all but in that outfit any lucky shot would maim her

[crimzontearz]

FurousJoe wrote...

Blackout62 wrote...

Shinannigan wrote...

Well, alright, although skintight chainmail doesn't protect either, except from dinner-grade cutlery. Sticks and Stones still break the bones. And so do swords.

Good chance it chafes, too.

That having been said, I like Bethany's outfit. *sigh* I'm such a dude...

Point be made a properly fitted chainmail is supposed to hug rather close to the skin.

This might sound like a stupid question but why is this? If a blow with a sword hits a chainmail, wouldn't it be better to have it slightly lose so it can actually recoil/absorb the kinetic energy a bit before it transfers into your body mass?

Chainmail is not supposed to soak impacts, that's what the leather lining under a platemail is for......

a chainmail is supposed to prevent slashing wounds and it does that VERY well

[FurousJoe]

crimzontearz wrote...

FurousJoe wrote...

Blackout62 wrote...

Shinannigan wrote...

Well, alright, although skintight chainmail doesn't protect either, except from dinner-grade cutlery. Sticks and Stones still break the bones. And so do swords.

Good chance it chafes, too.

That having been said, I like Bethany's outfit. *sigh* I'm such a dude...

Point be made a properly fitted chainmail is supposed to hug rather close to the skin.

This might sound like a stupid question but why is this? If a blow with a sword hits a chainmail, wouldn't it be better to have it slightly lose so it can actually recoil/absorb the kinetic energy a bit before it transfers into your body mass?

Chainmail is not supposed to soak impacts, that's what the leather lining under a platemail is for......

a chainmail is supposed to prevent slashing wounds and it does that VERY well

How could I forget leather, of course.

However not only does chainmail prevent slashing, but it's also very effective at stopping stabbing motions, and a vertical/horizontical blow with a sword will most definatly not cut through it if the chainmail have enough links/dense.

I'm not sure, but I think it was the pointy end of a katana in Deadliest warrior the dude used all his force and weight to try and stab through it, but it didn't go through. I don't know how true to the time this chainmail was, but I'm sure they knew their smithing work back then.

Modifié par FurousJoe, 16 janvier 2011 - 09:43 .

[crimzontearz]

FurousJoe wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

FurousJoe wrote...

Blackout62 wrote...

Shinannigan wrote...

Well, alright, although skintight chainmail doesn't protect either, except from dinner-grade cutlery. Sticks and Stones still break the bones. And so do swords.

Good chance it chafes, too.

That having been said, I like Bethany's outfit. *sigh* I'm such a dude...

Point be made a properly fitted chainmail is supposed to hug rather close to the skin.

This might sound like a stupid question but why is this? If a blow with a sword hits a chainmail, wouldn't it be better to have it slightly lose so it can actually recoil/absorb the kinetic energy a bit before it transfers into your body mass?

Chainmail is not supposed to soak impacts, that's what the leather lining under a platemail is for......

a chainmail is supposed to prevent slashing wounds and it does that VERY well

How could I forget leather, of course.

However not only does chainmail prevent slashing, but it's also very effective at stopping stabbing motions, and a vertical/horizontical blow with a sword will most definatly not cut through it if the chainmail have enough links/dense.

well, I saw a demonstration of Katana VS Chainmail on Deadliest Warrior (the show sucks in its undertones BUT the demos are cool)......the Chainmail did its job admirably

[greekmonkey95]

wynne wasnt

[Giant ambush beetle]

FurousJoe wrote...
and a vertical/horizontical blow with a sword will most definatly not cut through it if the chainmail have enough links/dense.

Wrong and wrong.
Hits from bastard swords and two handed swords could easily penetrate chainmal and the blades still had enough power to cut the arm completely off.  A large sword and a strong wielder could even defeat platemail, the only way to be truly safe from a big blade is wearing a full plate armor with good angled plates.
The chainmail also offers poor protection from ''stabbing motions'', spears, longbows and especially crossbows could penetrate it easily. 

It was cheap, it offered some protection and was widely available - thats why it was so popular.

Modifié par The Woldan , 16 janvier 2011 - 09:55 .

[Maria Caliban]

Shepard Lives wrote...


Aveline would like to have a word with you.

That picture strikes me as out of character.

[D.Kain]

Dhiro wrote...

I demand men in sexy and/or revealing outfits! Isabela shouldn't be the only one who can go pantless :<

This. 

My Issue is different from the OP. Imo Sexy outfits are Ok as long as it looks EXACTLY the same on men as they look on women. ( the only difference I would understand would be the bra )

If you make sexy armors - make it fair for both genders to use those. 

And I'm a straight guy too. 

[Sir JK]

The Woldan wrote...
Wrong and wrong.
Hits from bastard swords and two handed swords could easily penetrate chainmal and the blades still had enough power to cut the arm completely off.  A large sword and a strong wielder could even defeat platemail, the only way to be truly safe from a big blade is wearing a full plate armor with good angled plates.
The chainmail also offers poor protection from ''stabbing motions'', spears, longbows and especially crossbows could penetrate it easily. 

It was cheap, it offered some protection and was widely available - thats why it was so popular.

It is impossible to cut or slash through maille, even with the larger swords. That is the entire point with the armour. A axe could possibly hack it's way through it, but it'd have to be repeated blows against a rigid structure.  It does not however protect well against the force of the blow, so while your arm won't be amputated... it will still be broken.
However, most fighting styles are all about going around armour. In the massgraves outside Visby, Sweden, there were hundreds of people buried in their maille. All having their wounds in their faces, their legs or hands... were the maille would not cover. Not one had melee injuries on the torso.

As you say however. It makes poor protection against stabs. That's where padding comes in however. It is good against stabs and thrusts. The brigandine, a combination of padding, maille, padding, was the primary armour of the knights at the crusades are practically unpenetrable (insanely hot and could not cover joints though).

Oh... and maille was anything but cheap. Comparatively, maille and plate is almost as expensive. Plate replaced maille at the start of the renaissance and onwards. Once it started to show, maille got phased out. Maille was aslo useless against firearms, which is why it got replaced by plate.

Defeating someone in plate is about the same as defeating someone in maille. Go around the armour, attack weak points like armpit, face, neck, knees, trip them or punch through with a spiked polearm.
Also... twohanders and "bastard"-swords and maille are not contemporary. Twohanders are renainssance weapons, the time of pike, firearms and plate. They showed up as maille started to get phased out as a means to combat the pikes.

[DJBare]

Gee, it's a fantasy roleplaying game, I'd rather my females not look like tanks, rather more finesse, light armour quick movement.

[drahelvete]

Sir JK wrote...
*snip*
Also... twohanders and "bastard"-swords and maille are not contemporary. Twohanders are renainssance weapons, the time of pike, firearms and plate. They showed up as maille started to get phased out as a means to combat the pikes.

True, zweihänders were not contemporary with maille. Grete swerds were, however.

Modifié par drahelvete, 16 janvier 2011 - 10:29 .

[David Gaider]

Il Divo wrote...
Be ready. I personally think it's not a big deal, but there's going to be people who take this to mean that Dragon Age is turning into Dead or Alive.

I'm not sure we're "turning into" anything. There may be lots of changes on the art front, but how revealing the armor is hasn't really changed at all from Origins.

[RosaAquafire]

I so don't get this.

Isabela dresses like a girl who loves her body and wants to show it off. Because she's a girl who loves her body and wants to show it off. Meanwhile, Aveline dresses like a practical, modest badass. Because she is a practical, modest badass.

Merrill dresses like a Dalish keeper.

What's the problem here ?

[PsychoBlonde]

FurousJoe wrote...

This might sound like a stupid question but why is this? If a blow with a sword hits a chainmail, wouldn't it be better to have it slightly lose so it can actually recoil/absorb the kinetic energy a bit before it transfers into your body mass?

No--because the chain mail is not meant to absorb kinetic energy, it's meant to prevent a blade from cutting through, and having it be loose is actually quite dangerous.  Not only can it catch in something (and chain mail that's caught on something is NOT GOING TO RIP AND FREE YOU--it will strangle you or even pull one of your limbs off), if it's loose this makes it MUCH easier for an attacker to find an uncovered bit.  Also, loose clothing in combat gives your opponent something they can get a grip on and haul you around.

Real armor is always as smooth and close-fitting as it can be made to be and still allow you to move freely.  That's not to say it's "form-fitting", exactly.  One of the jousters at our local renaissance festival is a woman and she will tell you how squashed her boobs are under her breastplate--you can't even tell she has them, because the breastplate is the same shape as the ones the men wear.  You would never have projecting "cups" for breasts in a real suit of armor because it forms a weak place in the armor.  (Not to mention that this would actually be MORE uncomfortable for your poor abused bosom.)  A single continuous curve is much stronger than multiple convoluted curves.  If you want to see this in action, take an (undimpled) soda can.  If you're not too heavy (around 200 pounds or so, I haven't tested just how much it can take), you can actually stand on it and it will support your weight.  Now tap in the sides just a bit--just enough to dimple them.  Instant crush.

[PsychoBlonde]

David Gaider wrote...
I'm not sure we're "turning into" anything. There may be lots of changes on the art front, but how revealing the armor is hasn't really changed at all from Origins.

Except on the Qunari.  Going from "covered from head to toe in overlapping plates" to "no shirt and capri pants" is a big difference.  But, hey, they're all ripped so I guess wanting to show off comes naturally or something.

[DragonRacer13]

D.Kain wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

I demand men in sexy and/or revealing outfits! Isabela shouldn't be the only one who can go pantless :<

This. 

My Issue is different from the OP. Imo Sexy outfits are Ok as long as it looks EXACTLY the same on men as they look on women. ( the only difference I would understand would be the bra )

If you make sexy armors - make it fair for both genders to use those. 

And I'm a straight guy too. 

Varric has an outfit that shows off his hairy chest. At least this time around, the ladies are getting a little somethin-somethin to look at, too.

[Il Divo]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
I'm not sure we're "turning into" anything. There may be lots of changes on the art front, but how revealing the armor is hasn't really changed at all from Origins.

Except on the Qunari.  Going from "covered from head to toe in overlapping plates" to "no shirt and capri pants" is a big difference.  But, hey, they're all ripped so I guess wanting to show off comes naturally or something.

Well, as far as this goes, we'd only ever been shown one example of an in-game Qunari (sten). So we don't really have a way of knowing if he was an exception or whether an arishok has a different style of combat.

[David Gaider]

PsychoBlonde wrote...
Except on the Qunari.  Going from "covered from head to toe in overlapping plates" to "no shirt and capri pants" is a big difference.  But, hey, they're all ripped so I guess wanting to show off comes naturally or something.

Could be that we just wanted to show off their rippling muscles, sure. Or there could also be an in-game reason why they're not dressed in armor. Certainly we've never said that the qunari don't dress in actual armor ever.

[PsychoBlonde]

DragonRacer13 wrote...

Varric has an outfit that shows off his hairy chest. At least this time around, the ladies are getting a little somethin-somethin to look at, too.

Well, in Origins you could always just steal their armor and make them go adventuring in their bikini bottoms or whatever those were.  It looked REALLY cold though, and it totally broke realism.

I don't want a nude mod, I want one where if you steal their clothing, they start to strut and pose for the camera.

[FurousJoe]

The Woldan wrote...

FurousJoe wrote...
and a vertical/horizontical blow with a sword will most definatly not cut through it if the chainmail have enough links/dense.

Wrong and wrong.
Hits from bastard swords and two handed swords could easily penetrate chainmal and the blades still had enough power to cut the arm completely off.  A large sword and a strong wielder could even defeat platemail, the only way to be truly safe from a big blade is wearing a full plate armor with good angled plates.
The chainmail also offers poor protection from ''stabbing motions'', spears, longbows and especially crossbows could penetrate it easily. 

It was cheap, it offered some protection and was widely available - thats why it was so popular.

Two handed sword as I imagine you're refering to, was really uncommen, I know this is a fantasy game so it's all irellevant anyway, but from a historical standpoint the biggest enemy of medieval/renaissance armor was ranged weapons from relatively close distance. Eg. crossbows and handcannons/arquebusers.

[PsychoBlonde]

David Gaider wrote...

PsychoBlonde wrote...
Except on the Qunari.  Going from "covered from head to toe in overlapping plates" to "no shirt and capri pants" is a big difference.  But, hey, they're all ripped so I guess wanting to show off comes naturally or something.

Could be that we just wanted to show off their rippling muscles, sure. Or there could also be an in-game reason why they're not dressed in armor. Certainly we've never said that the qunari don't dress in actual armor ever.

I know, I know, I was teasing.   I'm just saying that if anyone got a Sexay upgrade, it was the Qunari, which kind of negates the OP's entire point.