148 réponses à ce sujet

[Il Divo]

RDR had a great story, unfortunately that's really all it had. The actual experience of inhabiting the Wild West was disappointing. I'm glad it was ME2 though, if not that Heavy Rain I would've hoped.

[slxiii]

"People that don't agree with me can burn in hell" You need to learn to chill out and let people have their own opinions. I personally didn't think ME2 earned GOTY at all this year. Not that i disliked the game, it's just that RDR is a better game overall.

[MassEffect762]

slxiii wrote...

"People that don't agree with me can burn in hell" You need to learn to chill out and let people have their own opinions. I personally didn't think ME2 earned GOTY at all this year. Not that i disliked the game, it's just that RDR is a better game overall.

Exactly how I feel.(bolded)

Good game(poor sequel) but not extraordinary.

Modifié par MassEffect762, 16 janvier 2011 - 10:15 .

[Busomjack]

I think individuals are of course entitled to their own opinion but game publications need to report on the facts and the fact is that Mass Effect 2 is better than every other game that came out this year.

[Il Divo]

Busomjack wrote...

I think individuals are of course entitled to their own opinion but game publications need to report on the facts and the fact is that Mass Effect 2 is better than every other game that came out this year.

While I agree with your conclusion...this is an heavily flawed argument.

[omgodzilla]

slimgrin wrote...

I agree with Busomjack about Rockstar. GTA4 could have been great, but the controls were just awful, which caused you to get killed in gunfights when you shouldn't have, which brings me to the subject of quicksaves...oh that's right, there aren't any. Terrible game design. And then there's the complete lack of variety in sidequests...good god.

I poured 30 + hrs into GTA4 trying to like it, and honestly, I don't know if I'll ever try another Rockstar game again, I had such a bad overall experience. They are the most overrated dev out there.

I disagree with that. Gta 4 was overrated for sure that isn't enough to make Rockstar them most overrated dev out there. They've made some ridiculously amazing games in the past.

Modifié par omgodzilla, 16 janvier 2011 - 10:26 .

[Busomjack]

Il Divo wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

I think individuals are of course entitled to their own opinion but game publications need to report on the facts and the fact is that Mass Effect 2 is better than every other game that came out this year.

While I agree with your conclusion...this is an heavily flawed argument.

No it isn't because not all opinions are equal.  Just because you like a game doesn't make it a good game.  Take for example Deadly Premonition, the game is HORRENDOUS!  Everything about it is terrible yet it's fun as Hell to play if merely for the fact that the storyline and characters are hilariously strange.  I like Deadly Premonition but it still is a very bad game.

Some people may not like Mass Effect 2 as much as other games and that's their opinion which I don't begrudge them for in the slighest but it is a undeniable fact that Mass Effect 2 is the best game of 2010 and one of the best games ever made.

[slxiii]

Busomjack wrote...

I think individuals are of course entitled to their own opinion but game publications need to report on the facts and the fact is that Mass Effect 2 is better than every other game that came out this year.

I'm dying to see the proof for this. How good a game is IS an opinion.

[Il Divo]

Busomjack wrote...

No it isn't because not all opinions are equal.  Just because you like a game doesn't make it a good game.  Take for example Deadly Premonition, the game is HORRENDOUS!  Everything about it is terrible yet it's fun as Hell to play if merely for the fact that the storyline and characters are hilariously strange.  I like Deadly Premonition but it still is a very bad game.

Some people may not like Mass Effect 2 as much as other games and that's their opinion which I don't begrudge them for in the slighest but it is a undeniable fact that Mass Effect 2 is the best game of 2010 and one of the best games ever made.

Really, now? An undeniable fact? Like gravity, I'm guessing? I would love to see what kind of argument you plan on using to justify this 'undeniable fact' of yours.  

Modifié par Il Divo, 16 janvier 2011 - 10:26 .

[Dionkey]

Saying that Starcraft 2 is bad or worse than ME2 is ignorant, its a matter of opinion. Black ops isnt very creative and its the community that ruins the game.

[Busomjack]

Well it's pretty simple. The quality of all games is judged based on certain merits which we use to determine how good each game is. Graphics, storyline, controls, depth. Some of those factors may be more important than others depending on the genre but in the case of Mass Effect 2 VS Read Dead Redemption the former has the latter beat in every way imaginable.

It's no more subjective than comparing a Mercedes to a Yugo.

[omgodzilla]

Modifié par omgodzilla, 16 janvier 2011 - 10:29 .

[Busomjack]

Rockstar games have all been pretty shallow and lacking in polish in my opinion. Grand Theft Auto III was pretty original for it's time but even that game got repetitive and boring fast.
Manhunt 2 was mostly crap and I haven't played the first Manhunt even though I have heard that one is slightly better.

Rockstar has published a few cool games like Max Payne 1 and 2 but I have yet to play a Rockstar developed game I really enjoyed all that much.

Modifié par Busomjack, 16 janvier 2011 - 10:31 .

[Dionkey]

Busomjack wrote...

Well it's pretty simple. The quality of all games is judged based on certain merits which we use to determine how good each game is. Graphics, storyline, controls, depth. Some of those factors may be more important than others depending on the genre but in the case of Mass Effect 2 VS Read Dead Redemption the former has the latter beat in every way imaginable.
It's no more subjective than comparing a Mercedes to a Yugo.

No its not, this is unbelievable. They are first, totally different, second a matter of opinion. Why do you think some people don`t play Mass effect but play RDR? Its because the they like it,  vice versa in our position. This can be said from their perspective as well. So are you saying that because you like one game more the other is for mindless thralls? You sound like a bigot who forces his opinion on people. Sorry for any stronge language here but it needs to be said, this is ignorance on the highest level.

[Il Divo]

Busomjack wrote...

Well it's pretty simple. The quality of all games is judged based on certain merits which we use to determine how good each game is. Graphics, storyline, controls, depth. Some of those factors may be more important than others depending on the genre but in the case of Mass Effect 2 VS Read Dead Redemption the former has the latter beat in every way imaginable.
It's no more subjective than comparing a Mercedes to a Yugo.

Yes, and this is how we get those things called 'opinions'. You know, which let people form different judgments when presented with the same exact evidence (the game)? It's also how 'discussion' is established. I just find it hilarious that you latch on to IGN (a site notorious for its lackluster reviews) as evidence to an objective belief in Mass Effect 2's superiority.

[Busomjack]

Dionkey wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

Well it's pretty simple. The quality of all games is judged based on certain merits which we use to determine how good each game is. Graphics, storyline, controls, depth. Some of those factors may be more important than others depending on the genre but in the case of Mass Effect 2 VS Read Dead Redemption the former has the latter beat in every way imaginable.
It's no more subjective than comparing a Mercedes to a Yugo.

No its not, this is unbelievable. They are first, totally different, second a matter of opinion. Why do you think some people don`t play Mass effect but play RDR? Its because the they like it,  vice versa in our position. This can be said from their perspective as well. So are you saying that because you like one game more the other is for mindless thralls? You sound like a bigot who forces his opinion on people. Sorry for any stronge language here but it needs to be said, this is ignorance on the highest level.

I know they're a matter of opinion but what I'm saying is that opinions and facts don't necessarily have to be mutually exclusive and that not all opinions are equal.  People can certainly hold the opinion that they prefer Red Dead Redemption over Mass Effect 2 and that's cool, no problems there but they're wrong to say that Mass Effect 2 is an inferior game because on every issue which determines a game's quality, Mass Effect 2 crushes Red Dumb Redemption.
I'm not hating here as I enjoy playing bad games too.  Hell, I LOVED Nier even though that game sucks so if people want to enjoy Rockstar's boring, repetitious formula that has barely seen any innovations since 2001 that's up to them.  Mass Effect 2 is still the better game though and that's a fact Jack!

[Clover Rider]

Il Divo wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

Well it's pretty simple. The quality of all games is judged based on certain merits which we use to determine how good each game is. Graphics, storyline, controls, depth. Some of those factors may be more important than others depending on the genre but in the case of Mass Effect 2 VS Read Dead Redemption the former has the latter beat in every way imaginable.
It's no more subjective than comparing a Mercedes to a Yugo.

Yes, and this is how we get those things called 'opinions'. You know, which let people form different judgments when presented with the same exact evidence (the game)? It's also how 'discussion' is established. I just find it hilarious that you latch on to IGN (a site notorious for its lackluster reviews) as evidence to an objective belief in Mass Effect 2's superiority.

You can't spell ignorant without IGN .

[Busomjack]

Some Geth wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

Well it's pretty simple. The quality of all games is judged based on certain merits which we use to determine how good each game is. Graphics, storyline, controls, depth. Some of those factors may be more important than others depending on the genre but in the case of Mass Effect 2 VS Read Dead Redemption the former has the latter beat in every way imaginable.
It's no more subjective than comparing a Mercedes to a Yugo.

Yes, and this is how we get those things called 'opinions'. You know, which let people form different judgments when presented with the same exact evidence (the game)? It's also how 'discussion' is established. I just find it hilarious that you latch on to IGN (a site notorious for its lackluster reviews) as evidence to an objective belief in Mass Effect 2's superiority.

You can't spell ignorant without IGN .

Hey, IGN isn't THAT bad.  True, their movie reviews suck and they try too hard to be like Maxim when they really should just focus on games BUT they do get things right occasionally.

It was hilarious when they pissed off all the JRPG fanboys by declaring Final Fantasy XIII as the most disappointing game of 2010.  HAHA!

[Il Divo]

Busomjack wrote...

I know they're a matter of opinion but what I'm saying is that opinions and facts don't necessarily have to be mutually exclusive and that not all opinions are equal.  People can certainly hold the opinion that they prefer Red Dead Redemption over Mass Effect 2 and that's cool, no problems there but they're wrong to say that Mass Effect 2 is an inferior game because on every issue which determines a game's quality, Mass Effect 2 crushes Red Dumb Redemption.
I'm not hating here as I enjoy playing bad games too.  Hell, I LOVED Nier even though that game sucks so if people want to enjoy Rockstar's boring, repetitious formula that has barely seen any innovations since 2001 that's up to them.  Mass Effect 2 is still the better game though and that's a fact Jack!

Then I assume you wouldn't have any problem making a separate thread about this? Perhaps with a heading like "An Objective Argument for why Mass Effect 2 is superior to most other video games and the rightful GOTY". I'm curious to see how forum opinion would take that.

[Busomjack]

Il Divo wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

I know they're a matter of opinion but what I'm saying is that opinions and facts don't necessarily have to be mutually exclusive and that not all opinions are equal.  People can certainly hold the opinion that they prefer Red Dead Redemption over Mass Effect 2 and that's cool, no problems there but they're wrong to say that Mass Effect 2 is an inferior game because on every issue which determines a game's quality, Mass Effect 2 crushes Red Dumb Redemption.
I'm not hating here as I enjoy playing bad games too.  Hell, I LOVED Nier even though that game sucks so if people want to enjoy Rockstar's boring, repetitious formula that has barely seen any innovations since 2001 that's up to them.  Mass Effect 2 is still the better game though and that's a fact Jack!

Then I assume you wouldn't have any problem making a separate thread about this? Perhaps with a heading like "An Objective Argument for why Mass Effect 2 is superior to most other video games and the rightful GOTY". I'm curious to see how forum opinion would take that.

Maybe another time.  I just ran 9.06 miles in just one hour and I need to recharge for an X-treme weight lifting session.  This talk about bad games like Red Dead Redemption is making me want to play through Deadly Premonition again.

[Dionkey]

Busomjack wrote...

I know they're a matter of opinion but what I'm saying is that opinions and facts don't necessarily have to be mutually exclusive and that not all opinions are equal.  People can certainly hold the opinion that they prefer Red Dead Redemption over Mass Effect 2 and that's cool, no problems there but they're wrong to say that Mass Effect 2 is an inferior game because on every issue which determines a game's quality, Mass Effect 2 crushes Red Dumb Redemption.
I'm not hating here as I enjoy playing bad games too.  Hell, I LOVED Nier even though that game sucks so if people want to enjoy Rockstar's boring, repetitious formula that has barely seen any innovations since 2001 that's up to them.  Mass Effect 2 is still the better game though and that's a fact Jack!

You are contradicting your self. Your saying nier is a bad game but you loved it. You don't decide a games merit by technical specs, thats stupid. Red Dumb Redemption? Really? I will love BW till the death of me but I won't stand by because someone is hating on other companies because of their blatant fanboyism. RDR IMHO was a little short and had nothing to do after the main game, however, that doesn't mean its bad by any standard. They are equal in presentation by every level, RDR always feels like the west and ME2 always feels like a sci-fi epic. Its not a fact guy, we aren't mindless husks built and programmed to assess a game equally, we all have biases,ideas and thoughts that form our opinions, just because someone has a different opinion doesn't mean they are wrong, it means you are biased to such an extent you can't see that.

Modifié par Dionkey, 16 janvier 2011 - 10:45 .

[Il Divo]

Dionkey wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

I know they're a matter of opinion but what I'm saying is that opinions and facts don't necessarily have to be mutually exclusive and that not all opinions are equal.  People can certainly hold the opinion that they prefer Red Dead Redemption over Mass Effect 2 and that's cool, no problems there but they're wrong to say that Mass Effect 2 is an inferior game because on every issue which determines a game's quality, Mass Effect 2 crushes Red Dumb Redemption.
I'm not hating here as I enjoy playing bad games too.  Hell, I LOVED Nier even though that game sucks so if people want to enjoy Rockstar's boring, repetitious formula that has barely seen any innovations since 2001 that's up to them.  Mass Effect 2 is still the better game though and that's a fact Jack!

You are contradicting your self. Your saying nier is a bad game but you loved it. You don't decide a games merit by technical specs, thats stupid. Red Dumb Redemption? Really? I will love BW till the death of me but I won't stand by because someone is hating on other companies because of their blatant fanboyism. RDR IMHO was a little short and had nothing to do after the main game, however, that doesn't mean its bad by any standard. They are equal in presentation by every level, RDR always feels like the west and ME2 always feels like a sci-fi epic. Its not a fact guy, we aren't mindless husks built and programmed to asses a game equally, we all have biases,ideas and thoughts that form our opinions, just because someone has a different opinion doesn't mean they are wrong, it means you are biased to such an extent you can't see that.

No, man. It's objectivity. We just can't see why his opinion is better than ours.

[Clover Rider]

Busomjack wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

Well it's pretty simple. The quality of all games is judged based on certain merits which we use to determine how good each game is. Graphics, storyline, controls, depth. Some of those factors may be more important than others depending on the genre but in the case of Mass Effect 2 VS Read Dead Redemption the former has the latter beat in every way imaginable.
It's no more subjective than comparing a Mercedes to a Yugo.

Yes, and this is how we get those things called 'opinions'. You know, which let people form different judgments when presented with the same exact evidence (the game)? It's also how 'discussion' is established. I just find it hilarious that you latch on to IGN (a site notorious for its lackluster reviews) as evidence to an objective belief in Mass Effect 2's superiority.

You can't spell ignorant without IGN .

Hey, IGN isn't THAT bad.  True, their movie reviews suck and they try too hard to be like Maxim when they really should just focus on games BUT they do get things right occasionally.

It was hilarious when they pissed off all the JRPG fanboys by declaring Final Fantasy XIII as the most disappointing game of 2010.  HAHA!

No they are that bad and as someone who plays JRPGs I hate FFXIII too and have seen tons of hate for it if you think IGN was the first to hate it you are a fool=].

[Da_Lion_Man]

Man Busomjack is really bad at disguising his fanboyism.



I don't think ME2 is all that great.

[Busomjack]

Dionkey wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

I know they're a matter of opinion but what I'm saying is that opinions and facts don't necessarily have to be mutually exclusive and that not all opinions are equal.  People can certainly hold the opinion that they prefer Red Dead Redemption over Mass Effect 2 and that's cool, no problems there but they're wrong to say that Mass Effect 2 is an inferior game because on every issue which determines a game's quality, Mass Effect 2 crushes Red Dumb Redemption.
I'm not hating here as I enjoy playing bad games too.  Hell, I LOVED Nier even though that game sucks so if people want to enjoy Rockstar's boring, repetitious formula that has barely seen any innovations since 2001 that's up to them.  Mass Effect 2 is still the better game though and that's a fact Jack!

You are contradicting your self. Your saying nier is a bad game but you loved it. You don't decide a games merit by technical specs, thats stupid. Red Dumb Redemption? Really? I will love BW till the death of me but I won't stand by because someone is hating on other companies because of their blatant fanboyism. RDR IMHO was a little short and had nothing to do after the main game, however, that doesn't mean its bad by any standard. They are equal in presentation by every level, RDR always feels like the west and ME2 always feels like a sci-fi epic. Its not a fact guy, we aren't mindless husks built and programmed to asses a game equally, we all have biases,ideas and thoughts that form our opinions, just because someone has a different opinion doesn't mean they are wrong, it means you are biased to such an extent you can't see that.

How am I contradicting myself?  Didn't you read what I wronte before about how it is possible to love a game even if it does suck?  In the case of Nier I found the storyline so weirdly cool that I liked it despite the fact that the gameplay is basically just button mashing stupidity and the graphics look like a bad PS2 game.
A different opinion doesn't necessarily mean they're wrong.  It depends on the opinion.  If it is your opinion that you prefer Red Dead Redemption, that is fine but Mass Effect 2 is still the better game, that is factual.