148 réponses à ce sujet

[Dionkey]

Il Divo wrote...

No, man. It's objectivity. We just can't see why his opinion is better than ours.

Ah yes, my eyes are opened now, so sorry.

[Clover Rider]

Da_Lion_Man wrote...

Man Busomjack is really bad at disguising his fanboyism.

I don't think ME2 is all that great.

It's funny too I love ME2 to death but I do think RDR was a better game had tons of fun with friends with it too:wizard:.

[wulf3n]

Busomjack wrote...
Well it's pretty simple. The quality of all games is judged based on certain merits which we use to determine how good each game is. Graphics, storyline, controls, depth. Some of those factors may be more important than others depending on the genre but in the case of Mass Effect 2 VS Read Dead Redemption the former has the latter beat in every way imaginable.
It's no more subjective than comparing a Mercedes to a Yugo.

With the exception of graphics all of those factors are still subjective. 

[Busomjack]

Dionkey wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

No, man. It's objectivity. We just can't see why his opinion is better than ours.

Ah yes, my eyes are opened now, so sorry.

It's because I also have the facts on my side thus further validating my opinion as factual.

[Il Divo]

wulf3n wrote...

With the exception of graphics all of those factors are still subjective. 

Even graphics is subjective, to some degree.  If one game puts out a higher resolution, but another game goes about its visuals more artistically, we can say that it still has 'better graphics'.

[wulf3n]

Busomjack wrote...
It's because I also have the facts on my side thus further validating my opinion as factual.

I'm curious as to what these "facts" are?

Il Divo wrote...
Even graphics is subjective, to some degree.  If one game puts out a higher resolution, but another game goes about its visuals more artistically, we can say that it still has 'better graphics'.

I didn't even think of that . I stand corrected. new statement: Everything in games is subjective.

Modifié par wulf3n, 16 janvier 2011 - 10:54 .

[Clover Rider]

Busomjack wrote...

Dionkey wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

No, man. It's objectivity. We just can't see why his opinion is better than ours.

Ah yes, my eyes are opened now, so sorry.

It's because I also have the facts on my side thus further validating my opinion as factual.

Super Street Fighter IV was the best game of 2010 this is fact .

[Dionkey]

Busomjack wrote...

Dionkey wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

I know they're a matter of opinion but what I'm saying is that opinions and facts don't necessarily have to be mutually exclusive and that not all opinions are equal.  People can certainly hold the opinion that they prefer Red Dead Redemption over Mass Effect 2 and that's cool, no problems there but they're wrong to say that Mass Effect 2 is an inferior game because on every issue which determines a game's quality, Mass Effect 2 crushes Red Dumb Redemption.
I'm not hating here as I enjoy playing bad games too.  Hell, I LOVED Nier even though that game sucks so if people want to enjoy Rockstar's boring, repetitious formula that has barely seen any innovations since 2001 that's up to them.  Mass Effect 2 is still the better game though and that's a fact Jack!

You are contradicting your self. Your saying nier is a bad game but you loved it. You don't decide a games merit by technical specs, thats stupid. Red Dumb Redemption? Really? I will love BW till the death of me but I won't stand by because someone is hating on other companies because of their blatant fanboyism. RDR IMHO was a little short and had nothing to do after the main game, however, that doesn't mean its bad by any standard. They are equal in presentation by every level, RDR always feels like the west and ME2 always feels like a sci-fi epic. Its not a fact guy, we aren't mindless husks built and programmed to asses a game equally, we all have biases,ideas and thoughts that form our opinions, just because someone has a different opinion doesn't mean they are wrong, it means you are biased to such an extent you can't see that.

How am I contradicting myself?  Didn't you read what I wronte before about how it is possible to love a game even if it does suck?  In the case of Nier I found the storyline so weirdly cool that I liked it despite the fact that the gameplay is basically just button mashing stupidity and the graphics look like a bad PS2 game.
A different opinion doesn't necessarily mean they're wrong.  It depends on the opinion.  If it is your opinion that you prefer Red Dead Redemption, that is fine but Mass Effect 2 is still the better game, that is factual.

No it isn't, I honestly don't get what you mean its factual. Is it written in stone or something? This isn't hard to understand, do you think it is magic why people like certain music and others don't? It just appeals to the chemicals in some peoples brains more than others. Please, before I further this I would like to hear you justify how your opinion defies the laws of science and is better than others.

[Busomjack]

wulf3n wrote...

Busomjack wrote...
It's because I also have the facts on my side thus further validating my opinion as factual.

I'm curious as to what these "facts" are?

Well if you compare both games category by category it's painfully obvious that Mass Effect 2 is the better game and it isn't subjective because if you judge a game on what it tries to do, Mass Effect 2 is clearly the better game in every way.  It has better controls, better visuals, better everything.
Saying otherwise is just a hipster mentality.

[Busomjack]

Dionkey wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

Dionkey wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

I know they're a matter of opinion but what I'm saying is that opinions and facts don't necessarily have to be mutually exclusive and that not all opinions are equal.  People can certainly hold the opinion that they prefer Red Dead Redemption over Mass Effect 2 and that's cool, no problems there but they're wrong to say that Mass Effect 2 is an inferior game because on every issue which determines a game's quality, Mass Effect 2 crushes Red Dumb Redemption.
I'm not hating here as I enjoy playing bad games too.  Hell, I LOVED Nier even though that game sucks so if people want to enjoy Rockstar's boring, repetitious formula that has barely seen any innovations since 2001 that's up to them.  Mass Effect 2 is still the better game though and that's a fact Jack!

You are contradicting your self. Your saying nier is a bad game but you loved it. You don't decide a games merit by technical specs, thats stupid. Red Dumb Redemption? Really? I will love BW till the death of me but I won't stand by because someone is hating on other companies because of their blatant fanboyism. RDR IMHO was a little short and had nothing to do after the main game, however, that doesn't mean its bad by any standard. They are equal in presentation by every level, RDR always feels like the west and ME2 always feels like a sci-fi epic. Its not a fact guy, we aren't mindless husks built and programmed to asses a game equally, we all have biases,ideas and thoughts that form our opinions, just because someone has a different opinion doesn't mean they are wrong, it means you are biased to such an extent you can't see that.

How am I contradicting myself?  Didn't you read what I wronte before about how it is possible to love a game even if it does suck?  In the case of Nier I found the storyline so weirdly cool that I liked it despite the fact that the gameplay is basically just button mashing stupidity and the graphics look like a bad PS2 game.
A different opinion doesn't necessarily mean they're wrong.  It depends on the opinion.  If it is your opinion that you prefer Red Dead Redemption, that is fine but Mass Effect 2 is still the better game, that is factual.

No it isn't, I honestly don't get what you mean its factual. Is it written in stone or something? This isn't hard to understand, do you think it is magic why people like certain music and others don't? It just appeals to the chemicals in some peoples brains more than others. Please, before I further this I would like to hear you justify how your opinion defies the laws of science and is better than others.

People can prefer certain types of music to others but a truly objective music conniseur should be able to recognize quality regardless of personal preferences.  Just like a professional game critic should be able to put their personal preferences aside and judge a game on it's individual merits.  In that regard Mass Effect 2 blows Red Dead Redemption away.

I'll give a hypothetical example.  I like Star Wars Episode I more than Star Wars The Empire Strikes back.  Is Star Wars Episode I a better movie?  HELL NO!  It's writing is more contrived and convoluted, it's characters less developed, it's special effects less subtle.

All of those factors I mentioned are factors which all works of art are expected to live up to and we should be able to see these despite our own personal tastes.

Modifié par Busomjack, 16 janvier 2011 - 11:00 .

[Clover Rider]

You have not played RDR have you?

[Il Divo]

This is one of those moments where I really miss Smudboy. He kept all the would-be Mass Effect 2 trolls at bay.

[Da_Lion_Man]

This kid is funny.

[Clover Rider]

Da_Lion_Man wrote...

This kid is funny.

He hates Street Fighter from what I know too=].

[Busomjack]

Some Geth wrote...

You have not played RDR have you?

No I haven't but it's a Rockstar game and their open world games are all the same so experience with the game in this case is not necessary to judge it.

[Dionkey]

Busomjack wrote...

wulf3n wrote...

Busomjack wrote...
It's because I also have the facts on my side thus further validating my opinion as factual.

I'm curious as to what these "facts" are?

Well if you compare both games category by category it's painfully obvious that Mass Effect 2 is the better game and it isn't subjective because if you judge a game on what it tries to do, Mass Effect 2 is clearly the better game in every way.  It has better controls, better visuals, better everything.
Saying otherwise is just a hipster mentality.

Ok this is my last post because you are becoming an obvious troll. I will not go into details into what sets the graphics apart from the two. The controls are fine in RDR. Your whole argument is made in about 5 seconds and is completely biased, I am pretty sure this entire forum would backhand slap you in agreement that you represent the Mass Effect community in the worst possible way. The person who chose ME2 had an opinion just like the person who would have chose RDR. The person who would have chose RDR is not stupid nor has any vendetta against ME2 in anyway, they simply prefer the western setting. No real gamer is against any studio/game because they don't like it as much as the other, they simply don't play it.

[Busomjack]

Some Geth wrote...

Da_Lion_Man wrote...

This kid is funny.

He hates Street Fighter from what I know too=].

Actually I like Street Fighter IV even though Tekken 6 is factually superior since matches require more than just mindless button mashing to win.

[Clover Rider]

Busomjack wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

You have not played RDR have you?

No I haven't but it's a Rockstar game and their open world games are all the same so experience with the game in this case is not necessary to judge it.

And now no one can take what you say at all as fact;).

[wulf3n]

Busomjack wrote...
Well if you compare both games category by category it's painfully obvious that Mass Effect 2 is the better game and it isn't subjective because if you judge a game on what it tries to do, Mass Effect 2 is clearly the better game in every way.  It has better controls, better visuals, better everything.
Saying otherwise is just a hipster mentality.

lol, still not seeing any "facts".

It's painfully obvious that you think ME2 is better than RDR in every way possible, but everything in games is subjective, you can keep preaching ME2 gospel 'till the cows come home, but you're not gonna convince everyone, for that very reason.

Now while you can compare some games, that are obviously not equal, ME2 and RDR are too good for an accurate comparison.

[Clover Rider]

Busomjack wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

Da_Lion_Man wrote...

This kid is funny.

He hates Street Fighter from what I know too=].

Actually I like Street Fighter IV even though Tekken 6 is factually superior since matches require more than just mindless button mashing to win.

LOL

[Busomjack]

Dionkey wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

wulf3n wrote...

Busomjack wrote...
It's because I also have the facts on my side thus further validating my opinion as factual.

I'm curious as to what these "facts" are?

Well if you compare both games category by category it's painfully obvious that Mass Effect 2 is the better game and it isn't subjective because if you judge a game on what it tries to do, Mass Effect 2 is clearly the better game in every way.  It has better controls, better visuals, better everything.
Saying otherwise is just a hipster mentality.

Ok this is my last post because you are becoming an obvious troll. I will not go into details into what sets the graphics apart from the two. The controls are fine in RDR. Your whole argument is made in about 5 seconds and is completely biased, I am pretty sure this entire forum would backhand slap you in agreement that you represent the Mass Effect community in the worst possible way. The person who chose ME2 had an opinion just like the person who would have chose RDR. The person who would have chose RDR is not stupid nor has any vendetta against ME2 in anyway, they simply prefer the western setting. No real gamer is against any studio/game because they don't like it as much as the other, they simply don't play it.

I don't have an issue with other game publication's opinions but what Gamespot should've done for instance is included a disclaimer when awarding Read Dead Redemption it's GOTY

"Please note that this award only reflects the personal opinion of the Gamespot staff and doesn't change the fact that Mass Effect 2 is the better game."

[slimgrin]

Busomjack wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

Da_Lion_Man wrote...

This kid is funny.

He hates Street Fighter from what I know too=].

Actually I like Street Fighter IV even though Tekken 6 is factually superior since matches require more than just mindless button mashing to win.

Minus one f*cking trillion. What are you talking about!? 

Button mashing gets you nowhere in Street Fighter. My Sakura needs to teach you a lesson!

Modifié par slimgrin, 16 janvier 2011 - 11:08 .

[Clover Rider]

slimgrin wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

Da_Lion_Man wrote...

This kid is funny.

He hates Street Fighter from what I know too=].

Actually I like Street Fighter IV even though Tekken 6 is factually superior since matches require more than just mindless button mashing to win.

Minus one f*cking trillion. What are you talking about!? 

He is a fool and Akuma will kill him is all I can say:innocent:.

[slxiii]

Busomjack wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

You have not played RDR have you?

No I haven't but it's a Rockstar game and their open world games are all the same so experience with the game in this case is not necessary to judge it.

Man, I wish I had superpowers like you. Knowing how good a games controls, mechanics, and story are without ever even trying it.

[Busomjack]

wulf3n wrote...

Busomjack wrote...
Well if you compare both games category by category it's painfully obvious that Mass Effect 2 is the better game and it isn't subjective because if you judge a game on what it tries to do, Mass Effect 2 is clearly the better game in every way.  It has better controls, better visuals, better everything.
Saying otherwise is just a hipster mentality.

lol, still not seeing any "facts".

It's painfully obvious that you think ME2 is better than RDR in every way possible, but everything in games is subjective, you can keep preaching ME2 gospel 'till the cows come home, but you're not gonna convince everyone, for that very reason.

Now while you can compare some games, that are obviously not equal, ME2 and RDR are too good for an accurate comparison.

I already mentioned that all video games are held to certain standards that determine their quality.  The purpose of a game publication is to put their personal preferences aside and report on the facts.  Does this game play well?  Is the storyline worth a damn?

Nobody wants to hear about a game reviewer's personal preferences, they want to know if the game sucks or not and if we're going to declare that everything is subjective then game reviewers might as well not even exist.

Here are some "facts"

The graphics in Mass Effect 2 are amazing while the graphics in Read Dead Redemption look muddy, and have low resolution textures.

The storyline in Red Dead Redemption sucks just like in every other Rockstar game since the main character's motivations are completely hypocritical and overly preachy.(again, haven't played Red Dead Redemption but GTA IV was like this and since all Rockstar games are the same I'm applying this standard to RDR fairly)

The controls suck, slow response time, poor hit detection, inconsistent frame rate(again, see above).

These are factors that transcend personal preference and are ways to determine the quality of all games.