148 réponses à ce sujet

[Busomjack]

wulf3n wrote...

Busomjack wrote...
Empire Strikes back didn't give us resolution of the plot either.  Sure there were some twists but Mass Effect 2 had plenty of really cool, unexpected twists as well.
I think Empire Strikes Back is a good movie parrallel to Mass Effect 2.

No one is saying EVERYTHING needs to be resolved, but we learn so much about the universe and ORIGINAL characters in Empire, and on top of that it made sense, everyones actions were believable, and i knew what was going on and why.

Busomjack wrote...
You haven't looked hard enough then.  I found this one in 5 seconds on metacritic.

Mass Effect one was a wonderful game but it did have flaws. Bioware 
seem to have picked up on every one of those and refined it to the nth 
degree to create a fantastic experience. Gong is the clunky inventory 
management, gone is the tearing and odd frame rate dip. In is a vastly 
improved combat mechanic, the best visuals on 360 (probably) and a 
simpler more immersive RPG experience. The story is, once again, outstanding. It's only Jan yet I think we have my GOTY right here.

yep that's totally impartial and in depth. anyone that mentions flaws, yet doesn't elaborate on them is hardly impartial.

Sorry Wulf3n, I'm going to need more information if I'm to fully understand your opinion.  I don't dissagree with what you said about Empire Strikes Back, that was a great sequel but I don't see how the same qualities that defined that movie cannot also be applied to Mass Effect 2.

As for the reader review that is just one out of 335.  Don't tell me that nobody praises the storyline without doing research first because you're clearly mistaken.

[Il Divo]

Busomjack wrote...


Sorry Da_Lion_Man but I'm not going to disseminate some random video that some stranger posts on the internet forums just because he challenges the size of my epeen.  If you want to debate the merits or lack of in Mass Effect 2 then do it based on your own conclusions, don't take the lazy way out and just post someone elses opinion.
That would be like me just posting the IGN review of Mass Effect 2 and saying "ok, prove that guy wrong point by point and then we'll talk."
No, it doesn't work that way.  You may not agree with what I said about Read Dead Redemption but at least it's something I wrote based on my own experiences and not just some other person's opinion I found online because I'm too stupid to think up my own reasons.

It's funny because you have no experiences, having not played Red Dead Redemption....

[Busomjack]

Il Divo wrote...

Busomjack wrote...


Sorry Da_Lion_Man but I'm not going to disseminate some random video that some stranger posts on the internet forums just because he challenges the size of my epeen.  If you want to debate the merits or lack of in Mass Effect 2 then do it based on your own conclusions, don't take the lazy way out and just post someone elses opinion.
That would be like me just posting the IGN review of Mass Effect 2 and saying "ok, prove that guy wrong point by point and then we'll talk."
No, it doesn't work that way.  You may not agree with what I said about Read Dead Redemption but at least it's something I wrote based on my own experiences and not just some other person's opinion I found online because I'm too stupid to think up my own reasons.

It's funny because you have no experiences, having not played Red Dead Redemption....

Wrong, I've played other Rockstar games and I have seen gameplay videos on youtube.  I wasn't impressed by the gameplay, graphics, or storyline.

[Da_Lion_Man]

Busomjack wrote...


Sorry Da_Lion_Man but I'm not going to disseminate some random video that some stranger posts on the internet forums just because he challenges the size of my epeen.

No, it's because you can't.

If you want to debate the merits or lack of in Mass Effect 2 then do it based on your own conclusions, don't take the lazy way out and just post someone elses opinion.

Actually I made my conclusions long before I watched that vid. But unlike you I don't force them to other people.

That would be like me just posting the IGN review of Mass Effect 2 and saying "ok, prove that guy wrong point by point and then we'll talk."

I thought game journalists were morons according to you? Stop being so inconsistent, a good troll is consistent in his trolling. You are just spouting crap with no soul in it.

No, it doesn't work that way.  You may not agree with what I said about Read Dead Redemption but at least it's something I wrote based on my own experiences and not just some other person's opinion I found online because I'm too stupid to think up my own reasons.

You did not even play the game you tool.

[Da_Lion_Man]

Busomjack wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Busomjack wrote...


Sorry Da_Lion_Man but I'm not going to disseminate some random video that some stranger posts on the internet forums just because he challenges the size of my epeen.  If you want to debate the merits or lack of in Mass Effect 2 then do it based on your own conclusions, don't take the lazy way out and just post someone elses opinion.
That would be like me just posting the IGN review of Mass Effect 2 and saying "ok, prove that guy wrong point by point and then we'll talk."
No, it doesn't work that way.  You may not agree with what I said about Read Dead Redemption but at least it's something I wrote based on my own experiences and not just some other person's opinion I found online because I'm too stupid to think up my own reasons.

It's funny because you have no experiences, having not played Red Dead Redemption....

Wrong, I've played other Rockstar games and I have seen gameplay videos on youtube.  I wasn't impressed by the gameplay, graphics, or storyline.

WOW, I played other R*¨games and I watched a Youtube vid!!! I played KOTOR and Gears of War and GRAW, I also watched some Youtube vids, now I know how good the ME games are!!!

[Busomjack]

Here are some EXCELLENT Mass Effect 2 reviews Da_Lion_Man





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxsYAgdXfpM

I would like you to go through each one of those videos point to point and give me your reasons why those critics are wrong. Until you do so I'm going to conclude that you're too stupid/scared to challenge their intellectual superiority and are not as internet tough as they are.

If you want to make this a debate about other people's opinions, then it's only fair that you apply such standards to yourself, don't you agree?

Also, why should I have to play a game to determine it's good?

Have you played Rise of the Robots?  Tell me if you think this looks like a good game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bhyAZPsUIM

Modifié par Busomjack, 17 janvier 2011 - 12:18 .

[Il Divo]

Busomjack wrote...

Wrong, I've played other Rockstar games and I have seen gameplay videos on youtube.  I wasn't impressed by the gameplay, graphics, or storyline.

Other Rockstar games are other Rockstar games, not Red Dead Redemption. Try again, failure.

Modifié par Il Divo, 17 janvier 2011 - 12:18 .

[wulf3n]

Busomjack wrote...
Sorry Wulf3n, I'm going to need more information if I'm to fully understand your opinion.  I don't dissagree with what you said about Empire Strikes Back, that was a great sequel but I don't see how the same qualities that defined that movie cannot also be applied to Mass Effect 2.

ME2 didn't really do anything with the trilogies plot.
1 example (i couldn't be coming up with any more AoC is nearly installed)

They say the middle is when the characters are at their lowest, and while that's true in ME2, it's done in the first 10 minutes rather than through the story. everything that's done in ME2 is just to get back to the same point you were at in ME1...why! we effectively just played ME1 over again.

Compare that to Empire, where the story leads the characters to their low point. We're not told bad stuff happened then they spend the rest of the movie getting back to where they were at the end of Star Wars.

not to mention all the inconsistencies, confusing motives, and out of character actions.

Busomjack wrote...
As for the reader review that is just one out of 335.  Don't tell me that nobody praises the storyline without doing research first because you're clearly mistaken.

ok let me rephrase that... no fanboy, who clearly and objectively reviewed ME2 has praised the story over other bioware games. (yeah i had a look at metacritic and it screamed fanboy central to me, sure i didn't read all 1,505 reviews but the ones i did read were as impartial as Fox news.)

edit: Fanboy example - "How DARE the haters rate this game down!"...need i say more?

Modifié par wulf3n, 17 janvier 2011 - 12:20 .

[Busomjack]

Il Divo wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

Wrong, I've played other Rockstar games and I have seen gameplay videos on youtube.  I wasn't impressed by the gameplay, graphics, or storyline.

Other Rockstar games are other Rockstar games, not Red Dead Redemption. Try again, failure.

Come on, you and I both know the open world formula in Rockstar games are all the same.  From what I've seen RDR improves upon it a bit by giving the player choices and I do give them some props for that but the genre needs more evolving if I'm going to ever regain interest.

you see, I've played Grand Theft Auto Games since the 32 bit era and other than a change of perspective from overhead to full 3d that we saw in GTA III, the series has NOT progressed.  RDR might as well be GTA V.

[InvaderErl]

wulf3n wrote...

Compare that to Empire, where the story leads the characters to their low point. We're not told bad stuff happened then they spend the rest of the movie getting back to where they were at the end of Star Wars.

Again...

InvaderErl wrote...

From wiki:

The Empire Strikes Back initially received mixed reviews from critics upon its release. However, by the turn of the 1990s and up to now, fans and critics alike now widely consider The Empire Strikes Back to be the best film in the franchise.[34]

Some critics had problems with the story of The Empire Strikes Back, but they admitted that the film was a great technological achievement in filmmaking. For example, Vincent Canby of The New York Times wrote a largely negative review.[35] Judith Martin of The Washington Post complained of the film's "middle-of-the-story" plot, which featured no particular beginning or end, in her opinion.[36] However, this was a concept that Lucas had intended.[20]

I just find it amusing you're using ESB when what your complaint is one that was directed at Empire at the time.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 17 janvier 2011 - 12:21 .

[wulf3n]

InvaderErl wrote...
I just find it amusing you're using ESB when what you're complaint is one that was directed at Empire at the time.

my complaint? and what might that be? because it sure isn't that ME2 doesn't have a start or and end. My complaint is the STORY is poorly written and thought out, we don't really learn ANYTHING, we're told bad things happen but don't experience it, and effectively are at the exact same point as we were in ME1 with 2 different distinctions. 1 - collectors who we didn't even know existed were once protheans. 2 - Reapers are hypocritical liars who need organic material for something...

[Busomjack]

wulf3n wrote...

Busomjack wrote...
Sorry Wulf3n, I'm going to need more information if I'm to fully understand your opinion.  I don't dissagree with what you said about Empire Strikes Back, that was a great sequel but I don't see how the same qualities that defined that movie cannot also be applied to Mass Effect 2.

ME2 didn't really do anything with the trilogies plot.
1 example (i couldn't be coming up with any more AoC is nearly installed)

They say the middle is when the characters are at their lowest, and while that's true in ME2, it's done in the first 10 minutes rather than through the story. everything that's done in ME2 is just to get back to the same point you were at in ME1...why! we effectively just played ME1 over again.

Compare that to Empire, where the story leads the characters to their low point. We're not told bad stuff happened then they spend the rest of the movie getting back to where they were at the end of Star Wars.

not to mention all the inconsistencies, confusing motives, and out of character actions.

Busomjack wrote...
As for the reader review that is just one out of 335.  Don't tell me that nobody praises the storyline without doing research first because you're clearly mistaken.

ok let me rephrase that... no fanboy, who clearly and objectively reviewed ME2 has praised the story over other bioware games. (yeah i had a look at metacritic and it screamed fanboy central to me, sure i didn't read all 1,505 reviews but the ones i did read were as impartial as Fox news.)

The reason why the writers do that Wulf3n is because by being at square one, the threat of the reapers looks all that more legitimate and thus increases the suspense.
The Empire Strikes Back was the same way really.  Luke got his hand cut off by Vader and by the end of the movie everyone is still on the run.  Things look grim and that is why the conclusion to the trilogy was so deeply satisfying.  That is why we're back at square one at the end of Mass Effect 2.
Mass Effect 2 was about developing the characters and it did so phenomenally.  All of the character's loyalty missions were deeply emotionally involving and made each character feel like he/she is playing an important role in this game's storyline.
By getting the character development down we know can conclude this plot without a whole bunch of side story clutter. 

[Da_Lion_Man]

Busomjack wrote...

Here are some EXCELLENT Mass Effect 2 reviews Da_Lion_Man





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxsYAgdXfpM

I would like you to go through each one of those videos point to point and give me your reasons why those critics are wrong. Until you do so I'm going to conclude that you're too stupid/scared to challenge their intellectual superiority and are not as internet tough as they are.

If you want to make this a debate about other people's opinions, then it's only fair that you apply such standards to yourself, don't you agree?

Why should I do it, if you are too lazy yourself? Since you're so sure of ME2's superiority, why not prove Smudboy wrong while you're at it? I mean, you're the internet king, this should be a very easy task for you. Your opinion is law. I'm just a humble peasant. 

I don't need to prove anything, I'm open-minded enough to accept other opinions.

[InvaderErl]

wulf3n wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...
I just find it amusing you're using ESB when what you're complaint is one that was directed at Empire at the time.

my complaint? and what might that be? because it sure isn't that ME2 doesn't have a start or and end. My complaint is the STORY is poorly written and thought out, we don't really learn ANYTHING, we're told bad things happen but don't experience it, and effectively are at the exact same point as we were in ME1 with 2 different distinctions. 1 - collectors who we didn't even know existed were once protheans. 2 - Reapers are hypocritical liars who need organic material for something...

I disagree.

[Busomjack]

Da_Lion_Man wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

Here are some EXCELLENT Mass Effect 2 reviews Da_Lion_Man





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxsYAgdXfpM

I would like you to go through each one of those videos point to point and give me your reasons why those critics are wrong. Until you do so I'm going to conclude that you're too stupid/scared to challenge their intellectual superiority and are not as internet tough as they are.

If you want to make this a debate about other people's opinions, then it's only fair that you apply such standards to yourself, don't you agree?

Why should I do it, if you are too lazy yourself? Since you're so sure of ME2's superiority, why not prove Smudboy wrong while you're at it? I mean, you're the internet king, this should be a very easy task for you. Your opinion is law. I'm just a humble peasant. 

I don't need to prove anything, I'm open-minded enough to accept other opinions.

The difference between you and me is that I'm confident enough in my own established opinions that I don't need to post other people's opinions to do the arguing for me.
It's cute that you go running to other people's youtube videos when you don't have any material of your own to contribute but I think it's only fair that if we're going to debate the quality of Mass Effect 2 then it should be based on our own established opinions from actually having played it rather than from the perspective of other people.

[Da_Lion_Man]

Busomjack wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

Wrong, I've played other Rockstar games and I have seen gameplay videos on youtube.  I wasn't impressed by the gameplay, graphics, or storyline.

Other Rockstar games are other Rockstar games, not Red Dead Redemption. Try again, failure.

Come on, you and I both know the open world formula in Rockstar games are all the same.  From what I've seen RDR improves upon it a bit by giving the player choices and I do give them some props for that but the genre needs more evolving if I'm going to ever regain interest.

you see, I've played Grand Theft Auto Games since the 32 bit era and other than a change of perspective from overhead to full 3d that we saw in GTA III, the series has NOT progressed.  RDR might as well be GTA V.

And Bioware is very original? Please...

[wulf3n]

Busomjack wrote...
The reason why the writers do that Wulf3n is because by being at square one, the threat of the reapers looks all that more legitimate and thus increases the suspense.
The Empire Strikes Back was the same way really.  Luke got his hand cut off by Vader and by the end of the movie everyone is still on the run.  Things look grim and that is why the conclusion to the trilogy was so deeply satisfying.  That is why we're back at square one at the end of Mass Effect 2.

But you're missing the point, in Empire we experienced all the bad stuff happening, that's what made it dark. In ME2 we're only told about the bad stuff, we never really experience it. We could have been their when the council went back and denied reapers, which would have made working for cerberus plausible.

[wulf3n]

InvaderErl wrote...
I disagree.

good for you...i have no idea what you disagree with but ok.

[InvaderErl]

wulf3n wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...
I disagree.

good for you...i have no idea what you disagree with but ok.

Your entire post, sorry if that was vague.

[Da_Lion_Man]

Busomjack wrote...

The difference between you and me is that I'm confident enough in my own established opinions that I don't need to post other people's opinions to do the arguing for me.

But... you just did.

Besides, I didn't post the video. I just commented on the fact that I thought it was pretty well done. Then you suddenly targeted me.

It's cute that you go running to other people's youtube videos when you don't have any material of your own to contribute but I think it's only fair that if we're going to debate the quality of Mass Effect 2 then it should be based on our own established opinions from actually having played it rather than from the perspective of other people.

It's even cuter how you judge games you haven't even played and how you can't stand other opinions. 

[Busomjack]

wulf3n wrote...

Busomjack wrote...
The reason why the writers do that Wulf3n is because by being at square one, the threat of the reapers looks all that more legitimate and thus increases the suspense.
The Empire Strikes Back was the same way really.  Luke got his hand cut off by Vader and by the end of the movie everyone is still on the run.  Things look grim and that is why the conclusion to the trilogy was so deeply satisfying.  That is why we're back at square one at the end of Mass Effect 2.

But you're missing the point, in Empire we experienced all the bad stuff happening, that's what made it dark. In ME2 we're only told about the bad stuff, we never really experience it. We could have been their when the council went back and denied reapers, which would have made working for cerberus plausible.

I dissagreee.  Mass Effect 2 was a very dark story which made the universe feel like a very dangerous and vulnerable place.
The Collectors are some of the most insidious villains I have ever seen in a game.  Watching what happened on Horizon was unsettling to say the least and once I found out what they were actually doing to the humans I felt disgust and anger, I actually had an emotional investment in stopping the Collectors.
Also, seeing Cerberus from another perspective was really interesting and I never though I would be able to accept them as a lesser of two evils.

[wulf3n]

InvaderErl wrote...
Your entire post, sorry if that was vague.

So you disagree that my complaints with ME2 aren't different from those directed at Empire (even though they clearly are) or just my complaints in general?

[Busomjack]

Da_Lion_Man wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

The difference between you and me is that I'm confident enough in my own established opinions that I don't need to post other people's opinions to do the arguing for me.

But... you just did.

Besides, I didn't post the video. I just commented on the fact that I thought it was pretty well done. Then you suddenly targeted me.

It's cute that you go running to other people's youtube videos when you don't have any material of your own to contribute but I think it's only fair that if we're going to debate the quality of Mass Effect 2 then it should be based on our own established opinions from actually having played it rather than from the perspective of other people.

It's even cuter how you judge games you haven't even played and how you can't stand other opinions. 

Lol, I was just doing so out of mockery of your cheap debate tactics.
You may not have posted the video but you did say that I must disseminate it.  Ok, so if I have to watch and tear apart every negative video on youtube about Mass Effect 2 or else I'm too stupid then it's only fair you hold yourself to the same standard.
Check back with me once you've torn those videos I've posted a new one.

[Pacifien]

If this thread was actually about discussing Mass Effect 2, it surely wasn't evident after reading the first page. Locked.