59 réponses à ce sujet

[Gnoster]

Not that I want to highjack the thread, but since it is turning into a bit more generel discussion of bonus powers, which power would people recommend for a Soldier?

I have just started a run with a Soldier carried over from ME1, and I was looking very much at Reave, but ended up deciding on Warp Ammo. Reave GCD somewhat nullifies the Soldier skill of Adrenaline Rush imo and fast switching between warp ammo for barriers to incindiary ammo from when onyl armor and health are left seemed like a better Soldier combo to me.

[Bozorgmehr]

xXSnak3Eat3rXx wrote...

Not only is Reave a MUST for a Vanguard but the upgraded version, Area Reave is one of the best biotic powers in general (at least on higher difficulties).

No it isn't. Reave is the most highly over-rated power in ME2. A jack of all trades, master of none. Everything Reave does can be done using other powers and it's done better and/or faster.

Taking Reave on Vanguard is like gimping yourself; and the unreachable enemies argument is lame - it's about 0.x % of all enemies. Vanguards are about Charge, if you want to be a caster, play Adept. They're much better at it and have Warp (more powerful than Reave btw).

@ Gnoster;  Soldiers don't need bonus power - there is nothing in ME2 that can come close to ARush, wasting cooldown on something like Reave or CS is not the best option. Warp Ammo can be nice against Collectors and something like GSB can be a lifesaver if your Soldier really messed up. Slam and NS are nice against Husks.

[Seblin]

I would not recommend any of the barrier/gsb/fort abilities. Its a waste on a Vanguard, you get 100% sheilds EVERYTIME you charge. If you are not using charge often then try a different class, its what defines a Vanguard.



To keep with the biotic flavour of the class I go with Slam or Reave. Either works well, Reave for HP regen and awesome armour/barrier damage or Slam for Warp bombs(Which can be substituted for 1 rank in lift if you want reave)

[Bourne Endeavor]

Kronner wrote...

xXSnak3Eat3rXx wrote...

Not only is Reave a MUST for a Vanguard but the upgraded version, Area Reave is one of the best biotic powers in general (at least on higher difficulties).

It can drop barrier on multiple enemies at once and not to mention that it is highly effective against armor. I cannot stress how useful that is on higher difficulties. Also it counters the only weakness that Vanguards have and that is inflicting damage on enemies during ranged combat. You'll encounter multiple occasions where you cannot get close to the enemy because they're on an isolated platform or there are just too many of them.

Slam, Shockwave, Pull etc are worthless for Vanguards on higher difficulties because they first require the barrier/armor/shields to be stripped off the enemies. The thing is, if you've done all the hard work and stripped off the barrier/armor/shields, you shouldn't be using any of the biotic powers in the first place but instead you should be charging into the enemies using the shotgun to quickly finish them off.

That's just not true. You can use squad to strip defense and then your own biotic power, like Slam, with a shorter cooldown to set up a warp bomb..this is awesome against enemies you can't Charge.

Charging defenseless enemies? Why? I prefer charging enemies with defenses so they don't fly around. I can one-shot them anyway.

I have to emphasis this. Whenever an enemy's protection is gone, I avoid Charging them like a plague, excluding those rare moments when I can take an immediate advantage. The impact that sends them souring is more irritating than useful, especially with the Claymore. When you are capable of nigh OHKOing shielded enemies. There lacks a benefit to stripping an enemy's defense for the sole purpose of Charging.

Thus far I like Slam but admittedly have contemplated Stasis. What is immensely irksome is Miranda not unleashing Warp fast enough when I active Slam. The 360 is simply not responsive enough.

[Captain Crash]

I started a new Vanguard play for the first time recently. Im still only level 6 and have barrier at present which has been a lifesaver as my skills and upgrades haven't developed yet. Plus my femshep looks great when she glows like that!



I may switch it later when Charge gets a bit more impact behind it and dont feel as threatened.

[lazuli]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...
Whenever an enemy's protection is gone, I avoid Charging them like a plague, excluding those rare moments when I can take an immediate advantage.

I don't know.  If there's a group of enemies and only one lacks protections, I'll Charge that one so at least one is on the floor, making my Charge a bit safer.  This works best when all of the enemies are grouped close together.  In this situation, that defenseless enemy might make a better Warp bomb than a Charge target, but Warp bombs (two cooldowns) aren't always available.

I do understand what you mean about the enemy flying annoyingly out of reach, though.

[xXSnak3Eat3rXx]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

Kronner wrote...

xXSnak3Eat3rXx wrote...



Not only is Reave a MUST for a Vanguard but the upgraded version, Area Reave is one of the best biotic powers in general (at least on higher difficulties).



It can drop barrier on multiple enemies at once and not to mention that it is highly effective against armor. I cannot stress how useful that is on higher difficulties. Also it counters the only weakness that Vanguards have and that is inflicting damage on enemies during ranged combat. You'll encounter multiple occasions where you cannot get close to the enemy because they're on an isolated platform or there are just too many of them.



Slam, Shockwave, Pull etc are worthless for Vanguards on higher difficulties because they first require the barrier/armor/shields to be stripped off the enemies. The thing is, if you've done all the hard work and stripped off the barrier/armor/shields, you shouldn't be using any of the biotic powers in the first place but instead you should be charging into the enemies using the shotgun to quickly finish them off.

That's just not true. You can use squad to strip defense and then your own biotic power, like Slam, with a shorter cooldown to set up a warp bomb..this is awesome against enemies you can't Charge.



Charging defenseless enemies? Why? I prefer charging enemies with defenses so they don't fly around. I can one-shot them anyway.

I have to emphasis this. Whenever an enemy's protection is gone, I avoid Charging them like a plague, excluding those rare moments when I can take an immediate advantage. The impact that sends them souring is more irritating than useful, especially with the Claymore. When you are capable of nigh OHKOing shielded enemies. There lacks a benefit to stripping an enemy's defense for the sole purpose of Charging.



Thus far I like Slam but admittedly have contemplated Stasis. What is immensely irksome is Miranda not unleashing Warp fast enough when I active Slam. The 360 is simply not responsive enough.

Of course, the majority of the time I charge is when they're not completely defenseless but if you read my post, I was just making a case for Shockwave, Pull, Slam being useless (well, apparently Slam is not because of the Warp bomb but this is the first I'm hearing about it!) and if you have the defenses down, why not just use Charge?



And why wouldn't you charge when the enemies are defenseless? I don't know about you guys but I have Heavy Charge, so it gives me enough time to get off a shot or two before the enemy flies off (because of the temporary increase in reaction speed) and the enemies also take damage from the impact when they land, thus killing them. And if there are a group of enemies, I sometimes even pick off the defenseless enemies in that group and charge at them, letting them fly off (crowd control) while pumping hot lead into the rest and finding cover. I eventually use the squad abilities or Charge the second time into those enemies who flew off previously, if they are not already dead that is.



Though I see how that could be a problem if you're using the Claymore. I mostly use the Scmitar or the Eviscerator and I don't recommend the Claymore at all if you use Charge as frequently as me. With the Scimitar I can easily charge into a group of 3 enemies with defenses and take them out (provided I have all the shotgun and damage upgrades).

[Bozorgmehr]

You don't need to strip defenses before Charging; put Inferno Ammo on your shotty and all enemies nearby (with and without defenses) are doing the fire dance - all the CC you need IMHO.

Warp bombs do terrible damage and Slam gives you the opportunity to set them up very fast. When you hear boom, Charge is ready so you can go in while enemies are scattered by Warp explosion.

Here are two videos to give some idea how it works, and why Slam is great bonus power (mostly because it doesn;t interfere with Charge, like Reave's longer cooldown does)

Kronner: www.youtube.com/watch

M14567: www.youtube.com/watch

[Kronner]

xXSnak3Eat3rXx wrote...

Of course, the majority of the time I charge is when they're not completely defenseless but if you read my post, I was just making a case for Shockwave, Pull, Slam being useless (well, apparently Slam is not because of the Warp bomb but this is the first I'm hearing about it!) and if you have the defenses down, why not just use Charge?

Slam and Pull are not useless. Shockwave sucks.
I'd take Slam over Reave any day and twice on Sundays. That is a personal preference though.

xXSnak3Eat3rXx wrote...
And why wouldn't you charge when the enemies are defenseless? I don't know about you guys but I have Heavy Charge, so it gives me enough time to get off a shot or two before the enemy flies off (because of the temporary increase in reaction speed) and the enemies also take damage from the impact when they land, thus killing them. And if there are a group of enemies, I sometimes even pick off the defenseless enemies in that group and charge at them, letting them fly off (crowd control) while pumping hot lead into the rest and finding cover. I eventually use the squad abilities or Charge the second time into those enemies who flew off previously, if they are not already dead that is.

I rarely strip defenses if I can Charge the enemy, one shot = one kill so I don't have to bother with any stripping.
I just like it much better this way. I strip defenses only when I can't Charge that enemy, so I set up (with Slam) Warp bomb to kill such enemy.

xXSnak3Eat3rXx wrote...
Though I see how that could be a problem if you're using the Claymore. I mostly use the Scmitar or the Eviscerator and I don't recommend the Claymore at all if you use Charge as frequently as me. With the Scimitar I can easily charge into a group of 3 enemies with defenses and take them out (provided I have all the shotgun and damage upgrades).

I don't know about you, but I Charge all the time. I use the Claymore since my first playthrough and Charging groups of 3 is absolutely no problem. I dislike the Scimitar because it does very little damage per shot and I hate that I have to shoot twice just to kill standard enemy, although Scimitar is very forgiving and easy to use. I much prefer the 1S1K awesomeness that Claymore gives me. That is largely because I am on PC, and for me, the reload cancel is automatic by now.

[Bourne Endeavor]

lazuli wrote...

Bourne Endeavor wrote...
Whenever an enemy's protection is gone, I avoid Charging them like a plague, excluding those rare moments when I can take an immediate advantage.

I don't know.  If there's a group of enemies and only one lacks protections, I'll Charge that one so at least one is on the floor, making my Charge a bit safer.  This works best when all of the enemies are grouped close together.  In this situation, that defenseless enemy might make a better Warp bomb than a Charge target, but Warp bombs (two cooldowns) aren't always available.

I do understand what you mean about the enemy flying annoyingly out of reach, though.

That was what I meant by rare. I have utilized that tactic when the opportunity presents itself for precisely that reason. A Concussive Shot follow up has been relatively effective. Unfortunately these are usually not frequent enough (enemies not grouped, no cover, etc) and a Warp Bomb is the better option.

Besides, with the Claymore. A single missed shot makes everything irritating.

xXSnak3Eat3rXx wrote...

Though I see how that could be a problem if you're using the Claymore. I mostly use the Scmitar or the Eviscerator and I don't recommend the Claymore at all if you use Charge as frequently as me. With the Scimitar I can easily charge into a group of 3 enemies with defenses and take them out (provided I have all the shotgun and damage upgrades).

The Claymore certainly has a learning curve to its destruction and playing on the 360 is slightly more problematic when attempting the reload-trick but it is definitely worthwhile. It rips through just about anything and whatever does manage to survive is a melee or so from death. The others are good however I desire every ounce of carnage I can muster with my shotties.

Kronner wrote...

That is largely because I am on PC, and for me, the reload cancel is automatic by now.

I do envy for that, although I am getting the hang of it on the 360.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 18 janvier 2011 - 05:50 .

[xXSnak3Eat3rXx]

Are you guys telling me there's a way to eliminate the Claymore's only weakness, and a big one at that - the 1 shot per clip is the only thing that turned me off from using it ?? I feel that it slows me down as I tend to look for cover more often when using the Claymore.

Modifié par xXSnak3Eat3rXx, 18 janvier 2011 - 06:07 .

[PlayingWithKnives]

Yep the reload trick with a bit of practice, though looks like it might be harder to pull off on the xbox 360 cant really comment as i play on pc

[Bourne Endeavor]

xXSnak3Eat3rXx wrote...

Are you guys telling me there's a way to eliminate the Claymore's only weakness, and a big one at that - the 1 shot per clip is the only thing that turned me off from using it ?? I feel that it slows me down as I tend to look for cover more often when using the Claymore.

Aye, if you keep the fire button held down and press the reload button just around when you hear the "click" sound as Shepard reloads. You will cancel said reload and fire again. It is less responsive on the 360, at least in combat however with practice. You can adapt to the difference.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 18 janvier 2011 - 06:24 .

[lazuli]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...
That was what I meant by rare. I have utilized that tactic when the opportunity presents itself for precisely that reason. A Concussive Shot follow up has been relatively effective. Unfortunately these are usually not frequent enough (enemies not grouped, no cover, etc) and a Warp Bomb is the better option.

Besides, with the Claymore. A single missed shot makes everything irritating.

That could be it right there.  I favor the Katana, which is much more forgiving of a missed shot.

[Bozorgmehr]

But it also adds to the excitement; Claymore is an all-or-nothing weapon - knowing your shots must count or consequences will be severe, that's something I like about this weapon.

Charge + BOOM    =

Charge + missed =  >

[ryoldschool]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

xXSnak3Eat3rXx wrote...

Are you guys telling me there's a way to eliminate the Claymore's only weakness, and a big one at that - the 1 shot per clip is the only thing that turned me off from using it ?? I feel that it slows me down as I tend to look for cover more often when using the Claymore.

Aye, if you keep the fire button held down and press the reload button just around when you hear the "click" sound as Shepard reloads. You will cancel said reload and fire again. It is less responsive on the 360, at least in combat however with practice. You can adapt to the difference.

Claymore on 360 - reload trick -- saying it is less responsive on the 360 is kind.  While you are doing the actions mentioned to do the reload trick you cannot aim.  I've tried it a bunch of times and always eventually reloaded a save before taking the claymore.  I just pre-ordered a new controller ( razer onza ) that has two additional buttons on it ( under the right and left bumper buttons ) that you can configure to be existing buttons ( like melee ).  So after I get that controller I'm going to try the claymore again because my left index finger would be available to do the reload trick AND continue to aim.

I just wish that bioware would just reduce the reload time on the darn gun.

[Praetor Knight]

ryoldschool wrote...

Claymore on 360 - reload trick -- saying it is less responsive on the 360 is kind.  While you are doing the actions mentioned to do the reload trick you cannot aim.  I've tried it a bunch of times and always eventually reloaded a save before taking the claymore.  I just pre-ordered a new controller ( razer onza ) that has two additional buttons on it ( under the right and left bumper buttons ) that you can configure to be existing buttons ( like melee ).  So after I get that controller I'm going to try the claymore again because my left index finger would be available to do the reload trick AND continue to aim.

I just wish that bioware would just reduce the reload time on the darn gun.

Or at least map those buttons on the controller to different ones.

[Lord Phoebus]

I found dominate kind of useful on my Vanguard, it lasts long enough that it's still up when you charge and having an ally when you charge into a group of enemies can take some of the pressure off. That said, I can't think of any power I really found useful on my Vanguard. Barrier did save my arse a couple of times when my back was to a wall and I tried to charge (and on the collector platforms, where charge was wonky as hell), but if I was being more careful I would have avoided that situtaion.

[Bozorgmehr]

ryoldschool wrote...
I just wish that bioware would just reduce the reload time on the darn gun.

It is not something Claymore exclusive - reload trick works with all weapons, Claymore just benefits the most. I'm pretty sure most players are using the reload trick a lot without knowing they're doing it. Every weapon is ready to be fired the moment the new clip is in place (click), leaving cover, using power or melee will cancel the rest of the reload animation and you're able to move, use ability and fire your gun instantly.

I'm using the reload trick with all weapons and all classes. I even try to time powers; using them while reloading to speed things up a bit.

P.S. Let us know how Claymore behaves with that controller - would be cool to see someone on 360 using it at full potential!

[ryoldschool]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

ryoldschool wrote...
I just wish that bioware would just reduce the reload time on the darn gun.

It is not something Claymore exclusive - reload trick works with all weapons, Claymore just benefits the most. I'm pretty sure most players are using the reload trick a lot without knowing they're doing it. Every weapon is ready to be fired the moment the new clip is in place (click), leaving cover, using power or melee will cancel the rest of the reload animation and you're able to move, use ability and fire your gun instantly.

I'm using the reload trick with all weapons and all classes. I even try to time powers; using them while reloading to speed things up a bit.

P.S. Let us know how Claymore behaves with that controller - would be cool to see someone on 360 using it at full potential!

Yes, I will give a report back.  The controller has been in the news for over a year and its not even due to ship until Feb 28 ( this year I hope ).  We discussed the claymore in the thread "Patching the Claymore" a few months back, and for me playing on the 360 the Evi or scimitar is a better weapon - meaning that I am able to be more agressive with those guns than with the no-reload trick claymore.

[Bourne Endeavor]

ryoldschool wrote...

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

xXSnak3Eat3rXx wrote...

Are you guys telling me there's a way to eliminate the Claymore's only weakness, and a big one at that - the 1 shot per clip is the only thing that turned me off from using it ?? I feel that it slows me down as I tend to look for cover more often when using the Claymore.

Aye, if you keep the fire button held down and press the reload button just around when you hear the "click" sound as Shepard reloads. You will cancel said reload and fire again. It is less responsive on the 360, at least in combat however with practice. You can adapt to the difference.

Claymore on 360 - reload trick -- saying it is less responsive on the 360 is kind.  While you are doing the actions mentioned to do the reload trick you cannot aim.  I've tried it a bunch of times and always eventually reloaded a save before taking the claymore.  I just pre-ordered a new controller ( razer onza ) that has two additional buttons on it ( under the right and left bumper buttons ) that you can configure to be existing buttons ( like melee ).  So after I get that controller I'm going to try the claymore again because my left index finger would be available to do the reload trick AND continue to aim.

I just wish that bioware would just reduce the reload time on the darn gun.

Touche, it is difficult to get an accurate shot consistently however I have seemingly managed for the most part. Just about a half hour ago, I tore through Horizon without much of an issue and I flung around like a ping pong ball on Insanity. So I was rather delighted about that. I suppose the thousands of hours I spent with FPS games (Halo 2 specifically) a while back helped. Maybe I just adapt quickly, which is true in most cases. Nonetheless, I am quite content with the Claymore and its incredible damage output.

What I did do is practice and die a legion of times on Kasumi's loyalty mission. Granted, it was not entirely practice. I was determined to take down that mech with the Claymore. Scions were a breeze though.

Curious, do you happen to have a link to this controller? I might want to order that.

By the way, Bozorgmehr. Thank you on the Slam tip. It has been quite useful.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 18 janvier 2011 - 08:04 .

[Grimjesse127]

As far as I remember, as an Adept I used Energy Drain. For the synthetics. I guess Adept and Vanguard are actually pretty different. Vanguards are seriously more up close. If you depend on going really close then actually, I'd probably go for Dominate (yes, on insanity.)



Stripping the Shields or Armor is no problem for a Vanguard especially with Squad Incendiary Ammo... So you could just use the help of Dominate.. It's never really a bad thing. It's just my preference.

[Leeroi]

If you scroll to 3:41 on this video, you'll see why Reave beats Slam. The HP bonus + regen is way better when fighting organics than slam.

[Sparrow44]

Instead of starting a new topic I'll ask this here, which is the best evolution of Slam, Heavy or Crippling? I'm running a Vanguard atm and already using Slam as bonus which is very handy for Warp Bombs.

Thoughts?