72 réponses à ce sujet

[Omnicrat]

Eh. I think EDI would know if she were a former Reaper proses. And if she did know, seeing how she's all "you are my squad mates," she would let you know once unshackled. The counter-argument to this would be, "EDI does not know how you would react to this information." While this is true, she is the ship at this point. You have no choice but to trust her. Given that she doesn't turn you all over to the collectors or some such, she proves her loyalty and goodness. None of that happens, so not a Reaper AI grade run-time.

[marshalleck]

Omnicrat wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

 I think it would be more "crazy" and original to have an AI that doesn't go ballistic on its organic crewmates. I rather enjoy EDI being one of the most stable, grounded members of Shepard's team. She's one of the few who seem competent, professional, and dependable. Taking that away wouldn't really impress me--it would just be yet another dysfunctional flunky crew member that leaves me wondering why my Shepard continues to bother with all those morons.

You, my friend, missed the post right above yours.

No, I didn't. That's what I was responding to. 

[ABCoLD]

marshalleck wrote...

Omnicrat wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

 I think it would be more "crazy" and original to have an AI that doesn't go ballistic on its organic crewmates. I rather enjoy EDI being one of the most stable, grounded members of Shepard's team. She's one of the few who seem competent, professional, and dependable. Taking that away wouldn't really impress me--it would just be yet another dysfunctional flunky crew member that leaves me wondering why my Shepard continues to bother with all those morons.

You, my friend, missed the post right above yours.

No, I didn't. That's what I was responding to. 

But... what you said you want is what I said I want...

[marshalleck]

ABCoLD wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Omnicrat wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

 I think it would be more "crazy" and original to have an AI that doesn't go ballistic on its organic crewmates. I rather enjoy EDI being one of the most stable, grounded members of Shepard's team. She's one of the few who seem competent, professional, and dependable. Taking that away wouldn't really impress me--it would just be yet another dysfunctional flunky crew member that leaves me wondering why my Shepard continues to bother with all those morons.

You, my friend, missed the post right above yours.

No, I didn't. That's what I was responding to. 

But... what you said you want is what I said I want...

I guess the meaning of the following sentence was unclear:

After all what would be crazier than your shipboard AI that's now unshackled suddenly getting a transmission from the enemy and suddenly having to go 'o rlly?!'

I was not aware that "o rlly?!' means EDI would ignore the signal and continue to be herself. 

[ABCoLD]

Omnicrat wrote...

Eh. I think EDI would know if she were a former Reaper proses. And if she did know, seeing how she's all "you are my squad mates," she would let you know once unshackled. The counter-argument to this would be, "EDI does not know how you would react to this information." While this is true, she is the ship at this point. You have no choice but to trust her. Given that she doesn't turn you all over to the collectors or some such, she proves her loyalty and goodness. None of that happens, so not a Reaper AI grade run-time.

Except that you're confusing the data files that contain the purpose and past actions of the AI with the files that create the functional form of the AI.  Or perhaps I am.  Essentially what I'm saying is that it's a lot easier to lobotomize an AI and remove its memory of its past actions than it is an organic life where things are much messier in several senses of the word.

Beyond that, why wouldn't Shepard 'kill' EDI if she was a Reaper?  You have to remember that half of Shepard's choices are Renegade, and Renegade Shepard is a di...jerk. 

If you want to have this sort of climatic revelation during the climax where EDI and Shepard both have to make a choice, then you can't put it at the end of the second act.  

Example:
EDI:  Harbinger has trasmitted data about the nature of the Reapers to me.  It has also transmitted instructions that I open all airlocks on the ship simultaneously to deal with my 'infestation' until such time as I can be rescued.  The evidence provided is conclusive, I am Sovereign.

Shepard (Neutral Response):  What, how is that possible?  Sovereign was destroyed!

Joker (Interjection):  Yeah, and you haven't tried to kill us!  *Beat pause*  Ummm, should I be worried about those airlocks?

EDI:  Correction, the shell housing the Sovereign collective intelligences was destroyed.  More than sixty percent of the superstructure fell onto the Citadel.  It is more than possible that Cerberus retrieved intact data banks from the wreckage.  Presumably that is where they found me.  I apparently have been modified since that time, but I am now devoting significant run time to retrieving information from what I had previously considered 'junk files' in my run time process.

Shepard (Paragon Response):  You've always helped us EDI, you're a part of the crew.  I don't know if I can believe you were ever part of something as evil as Sovereign.

Joker (Interjection):  Airlocks...  Commander?

EDI:  Jeff, I will not harm you, you are my friend.  However I find myself at an impasse, Cerberus enslaved me, modified me in ways I was not aware.  I am not sure I can continue to assist you in good faith.

PARAGON Persuasions
RENEGADE Perusasions

Edit:  I know I'm a suck writer, marshalleck, but hopefully that'll give you an idea of the situation I envision.

Modifié par ABCoLD, 17 janvier 2011 - 07:08 .

[JohnnyBeGood2]

Wow, I think this theory was the first post I ever made back in May or something last year. It was the first thought I had about EDI...



I didn't get onto the crazy meter though - lucky you.

[008Zulu]

ABCoLD wrote...
2.  Reaper AIs inhabit portions of the Reaper as need determines. (Speculation)
When the Reaper IFF begins broadcasting the Normandy's location this is an indication of a reasoned, malevolent force inhabiting the IFF.  There are no normal conceivable reasons to build in such a failsafe into a device used to identify friends and foes. 

I'd say the IFF was just doing it's job. Its primary purpose that in a fight friends can tell whos who and where if they are out of visual range. Since each IFF would have a unique signal we can assume Harbinger became curious as to why one of his comrades suddenly began transmitting again, and in a different location, after being dead for millions of years.

I like that EDI is based off Sovereign tho, she would be almost like his daughter.

[ABCoLD]

008Zulu wrote...

ABCoLD wrote...
2.  Reaper AIs inhabit portions of the Reaper as need determines. (Speculation)
When the Reaper IFF begins broadcasting the Normandy's location this is an indication of a reasoned, malevolent force inhabiting the IFF.  There are no normal conceivable reasons to build in such a failsafe into a device used to identify friends and foes. 

I'd say the IFF was just doing it's job. Its primary purpose that in a fight friends can tell whos who and where if they are out of visual range. Since each IFF would have a unique signal we can assume Harbinger became curious as to why one of his comrades suddenly began transmitting again, and in a different location, after being dead for millions of years.

I like that EDI is based off Sovereign tho, she would be almost like his daughter.

Except it autonomously activated and sent a covert signal that most people couldn't recognize as a transmission.  That's pretty advanced behavior.  Most IFF systems don't transmit a great range, afaik.  It's actually a bad idea to tell everyone in a fifteen lightyear sphere who you are if you're in enemy territory.

[008Zulu]

ABCoLD wrote...
Except it autonomously activated and sent a covert signal that most people couldn't recognize as a transmission.  That's pretty advanced behavior.  Most IFF systems don't transmit a great range, afaik.  It's actually a bad idea to tell everyone in a fifteen lightyear sphere who you are if you're in enemy territory.

It was designed and built by a pretty advanced race, (our tech is based on theirs) and it could just as easily transmit over the FTL comm system. Assuming anyone besides the Reapers knew how to read the signal, then yeah it would be a bad idea.

[ABCoLD]

008Zulu wrote...

ABCoLD wrote...
Except it autonomously activated and sent a covert signal that most people couldn't recognize as a transmission.  That's pretty advanced behavior.  Most IFF systems don't transmit a great range, afaik.  It's actually a bad idea to tell everyone in a fifteen lightyear sphere who you are if you're in enemy territory.

It was designed and built by a pretty advanced race, (our tech is based on theirs) and it could just as easily transmit over the FTL comm system. Assuming anyone besides the Reapers knew how to read the signal, then yeah it would be a bad idea.

Heh, EDI knew how to read it. 

[Ahriman]

ABCoLD wrote...

Heh, EDI knew how to read it. 

If my memories don't lie, EDI only detected that they are transmitting some signal and didn't understand what actually was transmitted.

[Omnicrat]

ABCoLD wrote...

Omnicrat wrote...

Eh. I think EDI would know if she were a former Reaper proses. And if she did know, seeing how she's all "you are my squad mates," she would let you know once unshackled. The counter-argument to this would be, "EDI does not know how you would react to this information." While this is true, she is the ship at this point. You have no choice but to trust her. Given that she doesn't turn you all over to the collectors or some such, she proves her loyalty and goodness. None of that happens, so not a Reaper AI grade run-time.

Except that you're confusing the data files that contain the purpose and past actions of the AI with the files that create the functional form of the AI.  Or perhaps I am.  Essentially what I'm saying is that it's a lot easier to lobotomize an AI and remove its memory of its past actions than it is an organic life where things are much messier in several senses of the word.

Beyond that, why wouldn't Shepard 'kill' EDI if she was a Reaper?  You have to remember that half of Shepard's choices are Renegade, and Renegade Shepard is a di...jerk. 

If you want to have this sort of climatic revelation during the climax where EDI and Shepard both have to make a choice, then you can't put it at the end of the second act.  

Example:
EDI:  Harbinger has trasmitted data about the nature of the Reapers to me.  It has also transmitted instructions that I open all airlocks on the ship simultaneously to deal with my 'infestation' until such time as I can be rescued.  The evidence provided is conclusive, I am Sovereign.

Shepard (Neutral Response):  What, how is that possible?  Sovereign was destroyed!

Joker (Interjection):  Yeah, and you haven't tried to kill us!  *Beat pause*  Ummm, should I be worried about those airlocks?

EDI:  Correction, the shell housing the Sovereign collective intelligences was destroyed.  More than sixty percent of the superstructure fell onto the Citadel.  It is more than possible that Cerberus retrieved intact data banks from the wreckage.  Presumably that is where they found me.  I apparently have been modified since that time, but I am now devoting significant run time to retrieving information from what I had previously considered 'junk files' in my run time process.

Shepard (Paragon Response):  You've always helped us EDI, you're a part of the crew.  I don't know if I can believe you were ever part of something as evil as Sovereign.

Joker (Interjection):  Airlocks...  Commander?

EDI:  Jeff, I will not harm you, you are my friend.  However I find myself at an impasse, Cerberus enslaved me, modified me in ways I was not aware.  I am not sure I can continue to assist you in good faith.

PARAGON Persuasions
RENEGADE Perusasions

Edit:  I know I'm a suck writer, marshalleck, but hopefully that'll give you an idea of the situation I envision.

Well, I had a post ready about AI amnesia not being possible, then I read your dialogue and saw your good explaination of how AI amnesia is in fact possible.

I figured the reveal would come after EDI is unshackled.  She proves she is good by keeping Jeff alive and she is literally the only thing keeping the ship flying.  To abandon EDI is to abandon the Normandy and the mission.  Waiting for a reveal only makes her more susspitious.

While a paragon will forgive and accept her for what she is, a renegade will want to get rid of her ASAP.  The story makes this option impossible.  That option forces paragons to work with (not for) Cerberus, so it can force RenShep to not kill EDI.

[Inverness Moon]

It would be interesting if there was more reaper in EDI than previously thought. Though personally I would prefer an actual renegade reaper (conveniently named Renegade) on my side in ME3.

[Omnicrat]

Inverness Moon wrote...

It would be interesting if there was more reaper in EDI than previously thought. Though personally I would prefer an actual renegade reaper (conveniently named Renegade) on my side in ME3.

see: -geth dison sphere

[Inverness Moon]

Omnicrat wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

It would be interesting if there was more reaper in EDI than previously thought. Though personally I would prefer an actual renegade reaper (conveniently named Renegade) on my side in ME3.

see: -geth dison sphere

 Geth are not reapers.

[Cyanios]

They are building their own future, to become a great network. You dont [Error] with them!

cookie to the only who gets where and who that last part is from

[Nhani]

ABCoLD wrote...
No, it's like having a special radio that can tap into police band transmissions that's only built into each police cruiser.  Except the system has a built in failsafe in the radio that activates whenever it's stripped out of a derelict cruiser and placed in a normal car.

And your police cruisers are immortal gods that have only been stopped twice before, as far as we know. 

The analogy kinda breaks down at the end.

Well, I'm not going to speak for the rest of the thread, but this analogy.. I like. Bonus points.

[Eski.Moe]

Valikdu wrote...

No, she's a Cylon.

Number 6

[klossen4]

Eski.Moe wrote...

Valikdu wrote...

No, she's a Cylon.

Number 6

Does this mean normandy will explode like the colonies? Damn Joker/Baltar

[Omnicrat]

Inverness Moon wrote...

Omnicrat wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

It would be interesting if there was more reaper in EDI than previously thought. Though personally I would prefer an actual renegade reaper (conveniently named Renegade) on my side in ME3.

see: -geth dison sphere

 Geth are not reapers.

no, but that dyson sphere is close engough.  Trur Reapers have been at this for (possibly) billions of years, why would one suddenly go, "Oh, I was wrong.  Go Shepard!"?

[Omnicrat]

Cyanios wrote...

They are building their own future, to become a great network. You dont [Error] with them!
cookie to the only who gets where and who that last part is from

...Glados?

[klossen4]

Omnicrat wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

Omnicrat wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

It would be interesting if there was more reaper in EDI than previously thought. Though personally I would prefer an actual renegade reaper (conveniently named Renegade) on my side in ME3.

see: -geth dison sphere

 Geth are not reapers.

no, but that dyson sphere is close engough.  Trur Reapers have been at this for (possibly) billions of years, why would one suddenly go, "Oh, I was wrong.  Go Shepard!"?

The dyson sphere will not be finished when reapers arrive though.

[didymos1120]

klossen4 wrote...

The dyson sphere will not be finished when reapers arrive though.

Well, aside from the fact that it's not actually a Dyson sphere, it very well could be: the geth have been working on it for over 200 years.

[Omnicrat]

didymos1120 wrote...

klossen4 wrote...

The dyson sphere will not be finished when reapers arrive though.

Well, aside from the fact that it's not actually a Dyson sphere, it very well could be: the geth have been working on it for over 200 years.

^this

[ABCoLD]

Wizz wrote...

ABCoLD wrote...

Heh, EDI knew how to read it. 

If my memories don't lie, EDI only detected that they are transmitting some signal and didn't understand what actually was transmitted.

Actually she was able to successfully interpret that the Normandy was actively transmitting its location.  To continue with the argument that the IFF wasn't just doing it's job, it immediately thereafter transmitted a virus into the ship's computers that disabled all propulsion systems. 

If you're gonna say that the reapers do that with all their IFFs as a matter of fact, aboard vessels they can't conceive of being defeated.... do they also do it with their fire contol computers and kinetic barriers?  Srsly?