72 réponses à ce sujet

[Jonathan Shepard]

EDI is a Cortana rip-off.

It's that simple.

[xlavaina]

Cortana and EDI are about equal in relative levels of awesomeness.

[ABCoLD]

xlavaina wrote...

Cortana and EDI are about equal in relative levels of awesomeness.

In personality, yes, hawtness, no.

It would be pretty snazzy if EDI picked an appearance for herself in ME3, 'to facilitate communication with the crew... and Jeff.'  It'd be snazzier if there was a good girl and bad girl versions, and it was based on if your Shepard was Paragon or Renegade.

[Inverness Moon]

Omnicrat wrote...

no, but that dyson sphere is close engough.  Trur Reapers have been at this for (possibly) billions of years, why would one suddenly go, "Oh, I was wrong.  Go Shepard!"?

The dyson sphere is not close enough or even close at all, I want an actual reaper.  Having all programs concentrated into a single structure does not make a reaper. 

I never would have suggested such a silly event in the first place. This renegade reaper would have been created from one of the previous cycles and would have decided that what it was doing was wrong after participating in that next cycle or two. Naturally, it can't oppose the rest of the reapers on its own, so it fled and hid itself, waiting until a civilization emerged that it could help oppose the reapers.

[Sajuro]

Inverness Moon wrote...

Omnicrat wrote...

no, but that dyson sphere is close engough.  Trur Reapers have been at this for (possibly) billions of years, why would one suddenly go, "Oh, I was wrong.  Go Shepard!"?

The dyson sphere is not close enough or even close at all, I want an actual reaper.  Having all programs concentrated into a single structure does not make a reaper. 

I never would have suggested such a silly event in the first place. This renegade reaper would have been created from one of the previous cycles and would have decided that what it was doing was wrong after participating in that next cycle or two. Naturally, it can't oppose the rest of the reapers on its own, so it fled and hid itself, waiting until a civilization emerged that it could help oppose the reapers.

I thought the Reaper wouldn't say 'I was wrong' but would be more of a grudge against some of the big shot reapers or be the chaotic type and get bored of fighting for the Reapers. It sees Shepard is mustering the species and decides to help him out to make things more exciting this go around.

[Omnicrat]

Inverness Moon wrote...

Omnicrat wrote...

no, but that dyson sphere is close engough.  Trur Reapers have been at this for (possibly) billions of years, why would one suddenly go, "Oh, I was wrong.  Go Shepard!"?

The dyson sphere is not close enough or even close at all, I want an actual reaper.  Having all programs concentrated into a single structure does not make a reaper. 

I never would have suggested such a silly event in the first place. This renegade reaper would have been created from one of the previous cycles and would have decided that what it was doing was wrong after participating in that next cycle or two. Naturally, it can't oppose the rest of the reapers on its own, so it fled and hid itself, waiting until a civilization emerged that it could help oppose the reapers.

According to the Heretics it does.  Whole point of the religion.  Its also just dyson sphere-like, makeing me think it is a mega-structure powered by a mass effect core bigger then a Reapers and a small star for the fusion plant.

Ah.  That aproches plausability.  I would kinda assume the Reapers found a way to account for potential dissenters, so one renegade would never make it far/long.

[Inverness Moon]

Sajuro wrote...

I thought the Reaper wouldn't say 'I was wrong' but would be more of a grudge against some of the big shot reapers or be the chaotic type and get bored of fighting for the Reapers. It sees Shepard is mustering the species and decides to help him out to make things more exciting this go around.

I think it would be more like this reaper still believes in their way of "ascending" species by turning them into reapers, but thinks forcing them is counterproductive and wants them to do it willingly perhaps like whatever race resulted in the first reaper.

Edit: Of course we don't know all the details about how the reapers were first created or why they do what they do, but what we've seen so far leans in a certain direction.

Omnicrat wrote...

According to the Heretics it does.  Whole point of the religion.  Its also just dyson sphere-like, makeing me think it is a mega-structure powered by a mass effect core bigger then a Reapers and a small star for the fusion plant.

You know Sovereign was lying to the heretics, right? They would have been destroyed once the cycle was finished just like other indoctrinated servants of the reapers.

Anyhow, perhaps you should pay more attention to the dialogue from Harbinger in ME2 and the ending of the game. It's clear that there is more to being a reaper than what you're suggesting.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 18 janvier 2011 - 04:02 .

[008Zulu]

ABCoLD wrote...

Wizz wrote...

ABCoLD wrote...

Heh, EDI knew how to read it. 

If my memories don't lie, EDI only detected that they are transmitting some signal and didn't understand what actually was transmitted.

Actually she was able to successfully interpret that the Normandy was actively transmitting its location.  To continue with the argument that the IFF wasn't just doing it's job, it immediately thereafter transmitted a virus into the ship's computers that disabled all propulsion systems. 

If you're gonna say that the reapers do that with all their IFFs as a matter of fact, aboard vessels they can't conceive of being defeated.... do they also do it with their fire contol computers and kinetic barriers?  Srsly?

It might just be a safeguard on their tech. Harbinger picks up the signal and sends a verification request, EDI is unable to respond (either fails to notice or doesn't recognise it) so Harbinger activates a security protocol in the IFF to send out a virus to wreck havoc on the hosts' systems until they can get there to investigate.

Despite droning on about how they are, the Reapers know they are not invulnerable. Perhaps one of the early species was able to acquire a Reaper IFF and go through the Citadel Relay. So the Reapers came up with the IFF booby trap virus as a measure of safety.

[ABCoLD]

008Zulu wrote...

It might just be a safeguard on their tech. Harbinger picks up the signal and sends a verification request, EDI is unable to respond (either fails to notice or doesn't recognise it) so Harbinger activates a security protocol in the IFF to send out a virus to wreck havoc on the hosts' systems until they can get there to investigate.

Despite droning on about how they are, the Reapers know they are not invulnerable. Perhaps one of the early species was able to acquire a Reaper IFF and go through the Citadel Relay. So the Reapers came up with the IFF booby trap virus as a measure of safety.

Except that there shouldn't be an interface between the IFF and the Normandy's system's to start with.  It's like hooking up a wireless transmitter that only has Unix drivers to an Apple II computer.  Eventually the Apple II might be able to figure out how to send commands to the Unix piece of hardware to say 'turn on' or 'turn off' but a more sophisticated interface would have to be programmed from scratch.  

Of course that sounds like what the IFF transmitter did.  Conversely a Unix virus wouldn't hurt an Apple II, the virus couldn't even execute.  The IFF learned the Normandy's internal OS and wrote a unique virus to disable it.

... That and any race that managed to go through the Citadel Relay or the Omega 4 Relay is boned. 

Inverness Moon wrote...

I never would have suggested such a
silly event in the first place. This renegade reaper would have been
created from one of the previous cycles and would have decided that what
it was doing was wrong after participating in that next cycle or two.
Naturally, it can't oppose the rest of the reapers on its own, so it
fled and hid itself, waiting until a civilization emerged that it could
help oppose the reapers.

Sajuro wrote...

I thought the Reaper wouldn't say 'I was
wrong' but would be more of a grudge against some of the big shot
reapers or be the chaotic type and get bored of fighting for the
Reapers. It sees Shepard is mustering the species and decides to help
him out to make things more exciting this go around.

Right, no, this isn't what I'm suggesting.  First off, this would imply that a single Reaper AI process managed to 'jump ship' from it's Reaper form, went out into the galaxy and managed to contact the Illusive Man and then TIM agreed with it, trusted it, and built it into the most advanced Frigate humanity has.

I'm suggesting that TIM found one or more Reaper AI processes in the wreckage of Sovereign, listened to it rant and rave about the death of organic life for a while then started hacking out and corrupting parts of its programming.  When it finally had 'AI amnesia' and was no longer a functional entity, but was still built on the extremely advanced core technology of a Reaper AI it was implanted in its current Quantum Blue Box and taught 'the job it had been built for' by 'it's programmers.'

Modifié par ABCoLD, 18 janvier 2011 - 04:03 .

[Drowsy0106]

In any case, make her mobile and a possible squad mate in ME3 please Surely Joker wouldn't mind.

[E-MailA.K.A.Mr.Fox]

EDI = Nazara

[008Zulu]

ABCoLD wrote...

008Zulu wrote...

It might just be a safeguard on their tech. Harbinger picks up the signal and sends a verification request, EDI is unable to respond (either fails to notice or doesn't recognise it) so Harbinger activates a security protocol in the IFF to send out a virus to wreck havoc on the hosts' systems until they can get there to investigate.

Despite droning on about how they are, the Reapers know they are not invulnerable. Perhaps one of the early species was able to acquire a Reaper IFF and go through the Citadel Relay. So the Reapers came up with the IFF booby trap virus as a measure of safety.

Except that there shouldn't be an interface between the IFF and the Normandy's system's to start with.  It's like hooking up a wireless transmitter that only has Unix drivers to an Apple II computer.  Eventually the Apple II might be able to figure out how to send commands to the Unix piece of hardware to say 'turn on' or 'turn off' but a more sophisticated interface would have to be programmed from scratch.  

Of course that sounds like what the IFF transmitter did.  Conversely a Unix virus wouldn't hurt an Apple II, the virus couldn't even execute.  The IFF learned the Normandy's internal OS and wrote a unique virus to disable it.

... That and any race that managed to go through the Citadel Relay or the Omega 4 Relay is boned. 

Boned most definately, but considering they had already lost the war, they probably figured "What the hell."

All an IFF does is transmit a signal, could be all they thought they needed to do is supply power to the device. Using your Apple/Unix example, that could be why EDI didn't pick up on Harbinger pinging it, she was unable to decipher what the device was precisely doing.

The Reapers probably figured that each species would have its own variation of programming language and so created the virus in simple binary and gave it a means to selectively probe their systems learning their computer language so it could rewrite itself and infect them.

[lovgreno]

Drowsy0106 wrote...

In any case, make her mobile and a possible squad mate in ME3 please Surely Joker wouldn't mind.

I belive a lot of fanart on that theme has already been made. BioWare fans you know.

[Omnicrat]

Inverness Moon wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

I thought the Reaper wouldn't say 'I was wrong' but would be more of a grudge against some of the big shot reapers or be the chaotic type and get bored of fighting for the Reapers. It sees Shepard is mustering the species and decides to help him out to make things more exciting this go around.

I think it would be more like this reaper still believes in their way of "ascending" species by turning them into reapers, but thinks forcing them is counterproductive and wants them to do it willingly perhaps like whatever race resulted in the first reaper.

Edit: Of course we don't know all the details about how the reapers were first created or why they do what they do, but what we've seen so far leans in a certain direction.

Omnicrat wrote...

According to the Heretics it does.  Whole point of the religion.  Its also just dyson sphere-like, makeing me think it is a mega-structure powered by a mass effect core bigger then a Reapers and a small star for the fusion plant.

You know Sovereign was lying to the heretics, right? They would have been destroyed once the cycle was finished just like other indoctrinated servants of the reapers.

Anyhow, perhaps you should pay more attention to the dialogue from Harbinger in ME2 and the ending of the game. It's clear that there is more to being a reaper than what you're suggesting.

The Reapers need to get their prossesses from somewhere for the newest Reaper.  Why kill the Geth and not use them?  What sense does that make?

Also, its not a "true" Reaper, but it is going to be f*cking powerful and it makes more sense then a rouge Reaper.

[ABCoLD]

008Zulu wrote...

ABCoLD wrote...

008Zulu wrote...

It might just be a safeguard on their tech. Harbinger picks up the signal and sends a verification request, EDI is unable to respond (either fails to notice or doesn't recognise it) so Harbinger activates a security protocol in the IFF to send out a virus to wreck havoc on the hosts' systems until they can get there to investigate.

Despite droning on about how they are, the Reapers know they are not invulnerable. Perhaps one of the early species was able to acquire a Reaper IFF and go through the Citadel Relay. So the Reapers came up with the IFF booby trap virus as a measure of safety.

Except that there shouldn't be an interface between the IFF and the Normandy's system's to start with.  It's like hooking up a wireless transmitter that only has Unix drivers to an Apple II computer.  Eventually the Apple II might be able to figure out how to send commands to the Unix piece of hardware to say 'turn on' or 'turn off' but a more sophisticated interface would have to be programmed from scratch.  

Of course that sounds like what the IFF transmitter did.  Conversely a Unix virus wouldn't hurt an Apple II, the virus couldn't even execute.  The IFF learned the Normandy's internal OS and wrote a unique virus to disable it.

... That and any race that managed to go through the Citadel Relay or the Omega 4 Relay is boned. 

Boned most definately, but considering they had already lost the war, they probably figured "What the hell."

All an IFF does is transmit a signal, could be all they thought they needed to do is supply power to the device. Using your Apple/Unix example, that could be why EDI didn't pick up on Harbinger pinging it, she was unable to decipher what the device was precisely doing.

The Reapers probably figured that each species would have its own variation of programming language and so created the virus in simple binary and gave it a means to selectively probe their systems learning their computer language so it could rewrite itself and infect them.

Ermmm, EDI is a Quantum computer, potentially the other systems in the Normandy are as well. Binary wouldn't work as great on them.  Also considering that if it was doing it passively it would require a massive interpretation (If Binary, 8 yes/no characters per letter, learn the actual language, determine the language in the context of programming, determine how to interact with the program.)  If you're talking about a virus that could make those intuitive leaps you're pretty much talking about an AI.  Or an extremely advanced VI specifically built into a single piece of the Reaper construct that could not conceivably be stolen by the enemy before being self-destructed by the ship.  Fer serious it'd make more sense for the IFF to simply have a switch on it that detonated it if it was in danger of being seized by enemy forces.  LOTS simpler, and prone to as much failure as your super code-cracking specialized VI would be... except it'd take up less space in computer memory and not require dedicated processors.

[008Zulu]

ABCoLD wrote...
Ermmm, EDI is a Quantum computer, potentially the other systems in the Normandy are as well. Binary wouldn't work as great on them.  Also considering that if it was doing it passively it would require a massive interpretation (If Binary, 8 yes/no characters per letter, learn the actual language, determine the language in the context of programming, determine how to interact with the program.)  If you're talking about a virus that could make those intuitive leaps you're pretty much talking about an AI.  Or an extremely advanced VI specifically built into a single piece of the Reaper construct that could not conceivably be stolen by the enemy before being self-destructed by the ship.  Fer serious it'd make more sense for the IFF to simply have a switch on it that detonated it if it was in danger of being seized by enemy forces.  LOTS simpler, and prone to as much failure as your super code-cracking specialized VI would be... except it'd take up less space in computer memory and not require dedicated processors.

The virus's initial state would be binary (or whatever machine code the Reapers would use), then it would rewrite itself to the environment. A virus is much more simpler than a VI or an AI in terms of coding, it wouldnt need all that extra communication code for organics or interaction beyond what it was designed to do. If EDI is indeed based off Reaper tech, then the virus could adapt to her systems that much quicker. While there is no time frame, the system hack did appear to happen very quickly, less than 30 minutes was my impression.

If they enemy siezed a piece of Reaper tech, they would hurry it off to one of the super secret research facilities for analysis, if the Reapers wanted to find an important target, then a secret homing signal built in to the IFF would be an ideal tactic.

[Inverness Moon]

Omnicrat wrote...

The Reapers need to get their prossesses from somewhere for the newest Reaper.

You have zero evidence of that. What makes you think they need to get them from anywhere else rather than creating new ones?

[Omnicrat]

Inverness Moon wrote...

Omnicrat wrote...

The Reapers need to get their prossesses from somewhere for the newest Reaper.

You have zero evidence of that. What makes you think they need to get them from anywhere else rather than creating new ones?

I wasn't saying they couldn't create new ones.  I was saying why bother when the able and willing Geth are right there?

[Deathwurm]

The OP makes some interesting points...it's as valid as any other theory at this point and would be interesting if it turned out to be true.

I almost hope that EDI turns out to be Good in every possible way...at this point, I see an AI involved in any story & I'm waiting for it to go "HAL 9000" the entire time...so an AI that turned out to be a Hero would be an even bigger surprise.

On another note: If the other Mythos Fans out there don't stop "naming names" you're going to end up getting us all some unwanted attention from a very Dark Place! lol

[Inverness Moon]

Omnicrat wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

Omnicrat wrote...

The Reapers need to get their prossesses from somewhere for the newest Reaper.

You have zero evidence of that. What makes you think they need to get them from anywhere else rather than creating new ones?

I wasn't saying they couldn't create new ones.  I was saying why bother when the able and willing Geth are right there?

I don't think you've picked up on the strong supported idea that being a reaper is not about just building ships with powerful AI, it's apparently about ascending races into what the reapers believe is a better state of existence. Melting organics into goo is part of this, because the organic material obviously has no practical use for improving the strength of a warship. The geth are obviously not suitable as they're not organics.

[marshalleck]

Omnicrat wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

Omnicrat wrote...

The Reapers need to get their prossesses from somewhere for the newest Reaper.

You have zero evidence of that. What makes you think they need to get them from anywhere else rather than creating new ones?

I wasn't saying they couldn't create new ones.  I was saying why bother when the able and willing Geth are right there?

The geth aren't nearly as developed as Reapers are. Saren said Sovereign regarded the geth with contempt, believing they were fit to be used as tools and nothing else. 

Saying the Reapers should use the geth to create more Reapers is kind of like saying humans interested in repopulating should pair off with chimpanzees, because hey, they're both primates. Close enough, right?

[The Twilight God]

EDIis technically a reaper AI in the fact that she is made of Reaper parts, but she isn't a formerly organic mind converted to a synthetic mind, brainwashed with Intelligence ideology. She was always an AI and started as a VI on Luna.

[capn233]

The Twilight God wrote...

EDIis technically a reaper AI in the fact that she is made of Reaper parts, but she isn't a formerly organic mind converted to a synthetic mind, brainwashed with Intelligence ideology. She was always an AI and started as a VI on Luna.

Yes.  But this thread was started before ME3 came out and at that point nobody knew she was the Rogue VI on Luna.

Modifié par capn233, 24 septembre 2012 - 06:47 .