364 réponses à ce sujet

[Jazharah]

grrrr

Moar Pix Pls.

[Dhiro]

Morroian wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

Yes, that's true. But eventually, one people will slip. And that's all it takes. One slip, less focus than perfection... and you're a mindless beast. But this don't change what you said. What I'm trying to say is: the Circle is the best solution? No. But blaming the Templars and saying they're just opressing the mages isn't true, either.

Mages slip even under the chantry. And yes the fact that they are repressing mages is a fact.

Also if mages have more of an element of self determination then there's less chance of unrest happening such as Uldred and which seems to be leading to the being conflict in DA2.

Yes, most mages do pacts with demons because they want to be free from the Tower. I assume that if they are more accepted they will have less motives to negotiate with a Desire D-- Spirit. Still, I'm sure the demons will find a way. But still seems so dangerous. A abomination in a village like Lothering, the chaos would be giant.

But yes, you have a point, here. But I still don't think all the templar are jerks/meanies/wtv.

[Dave of Canada]

Who gets harmed when the mage goes crazy in the Circle? More mages and templars, however nobody in the public gets harmed. Should a mage go crazy in public, how many people would die? Imagine the devestation a lone mage could do if possesed in a public area.

Connor, an untrained mage, was fully capable of destroying almost the entirety of Redcliffe (successful if you abandon them). A fully trained mage under similar rules in a more populated city like say... Denerim, Kirkwall and such would be a disaster would be bring ill will towards mages that the public would probably go hunting them and killing them out of fear.

In the tower, they are in a community of like-minded individuals and at least won't be prosecuted by anybody except for their watchers who can't do anything except demonstrate hate and bitterness towards them. We wouldn't want the Witch Trials: Thedas style to happen, would we?

"My mother is a mage!"
"I'm not!"
"She is, I ate her cookies and they tasted horrible! She was trying to poison me!"
"They were burned!"
"Cause you used fireballs!"
*Citizens hang the mother*
*eats cookies* "Oh my god, these taste horrible! She made them from beyond the grave!"
"Those are actually Nancy's cookies."
"NANCY IS A MAGE!"

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 17 janvier 2011 - 06:08 .

[PrinceOfFallout13]

also not every mages dislike the chantry or the templars like wynne and that girl in the mage origins who said that having magic was a curse so yeah not every mage thinks they are being opresed



wynne says it all the time mages cannot be left unchecked

[wulfsturm]

Dave of Canada wrote...

wulfsturm wrote...

I think it's called history, but I may nor may not be wrong.

It's called Godwin's Law, a horrible way to argue.

That's great, but since not everyone is as finely verssed in the passages of history as you obviously are, I refer you to Wulfsturm's Law:

Stupid untill proven guilty.

A great way to argue, as you no doubt are aware.

So, before I leave this thread due to the annurism that is threatening to kill me, I will all leave you with this quote:

"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices."

- Voltaire

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Dhiro wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

I just really, really, really hope the Templars and Chantry aren't completely painted as terrible religious zealots and jerks in DA2. It seems to be an easy avenue to paint religious types as misguided villains in all sorts of fiction and Origins did a decent job of not falling into that.

Show them doing some shady stuff, sure. But also show the Chantry and Templars doing some "good" stuff too.

Yes. We saw a lot of sides of the Chantry. Yes, there's corruption, but there's still good people in the Chantry.

Absolutely, there is corruption within the Chantry.  I laughed when the Reverend Mother (the food lady) was in on one of the rogue quest in Denerim.  I thought that was funny. 

I'm glad we finally get some background information on this lady.  She was in some of the first screenshots released and nobody knew anything about her.  I'm guessing she will be a tough minded NPC.  I can't wait to see how she interacts with Hawke's family, especially once they gain access to Kirkwall.

[October Sixth]

Sharn01 wrote...

Calla S wrote...

wulfsturm wrote...
Yeah? With that logic, we as human beings can all be murderers, rapists, and raving lunatics because we are what we are.

Should we throw you in a prison because you may turn into a murderer?

Mages are dangerous by default if their abilities go unchecked. Some poor kid grows up having their parents hide their abilities. One day, he sets fire to their home, killing everyone inside, as well as spreading the fire throughout that part of the village. That could have been kept from happening had the child known how to control his ability. They are keeping people safe from harm that may or may not be avoidable, but the fluctuation of power IS inevitable. Murders and the like are not.

I am getting kind of tired of the overstated dangers of magic.  At some point in Thedas's history the first mages came about, they had no one to teach them and no organization to keep them in check and yet somehow the world didnt end, somehow these mages learned their magic and taught it to new mages.  You cant punish people for what they can possibly do, you have to punish people based on what they actually do. 

I also think that the dangers of magic where intentionally overstated in DA:O to emphasize the fact that there where some dangers, not to make people think that every mage in exsistance is at some point going to become an abomination.  If I had to take an educated guess, the most frequent cause of abominations is probably from the circles testing, where they force a confrontation with a demon, a confrontation that may never have taken place in the mages lifetime otherwise, and if it did the mage may have been ready for it later in life.

"You’re in favor of registering handguns, aren’t you?"
"Well, some of these kids possess far more power than any handgun.
"We must know who they are, and above all, what they can do!"

Modifié par October Sixth, 17 janvier 2011 - 06:09 .

[Morroian]

Dhiro wrote...

But yes, you have a point, here. But I still don't think all the templar are jerks/meanies/wtv.

Oh I don't think they are either. Although I would question just what someone like Meredith would have to do or be like to rise to power in the biggest chantry tower in Thedas. 

[Dhiro]

wulfsturm wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

wulfsturm wrote...

I think it's called history, but I may nor may not be wrong.

It's called Godwin's Law, a horrible way to argue.

That's great, but since not everyone is as finely verssed in the passages of history as you obviously are, I refer you to Wulfsturm's Law:

Stupid untill proven guilty.

A great way to argue, as you no doubt are aware.

So, before I leave this thread due to the annurism that is threatening to kill me, I will all leave you with this quote:

"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices."

- Voltaire

*sigh* Yes, going away saying how we're all dumb will help you.

[Dhiro]

Morroian wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

But yes, you have a point, here. But I still don't think all the templar are jerks/meanies/wtv.

Oh I don't think they are either. Although I would question just what someone like Meredith would have to do or be like to rise to power in the biggest chantry tower in Thedas. 

If Hawke is a mage, I think she's gonna be pissed. I don't think anyone wants to see a mage rising to power, except maybe other mages, a Knight-Commander, that probably think they're dangerous probably won't take this well.

[Drizzt ORierdan]

Late for jumping into the argument, but here it is:

I think Templar/Mages interaction is hardly the issue here... Its not that they're solely committed to police work. They're an army, an a political power...

What I find most reprehensible of the Chantry is the fact they live off the work and esence of the peasants to perpetuate their privileges, telling tell-tale stories of an invisible man in the sky (Maker) of whom they're are the right representatives... Bull.  <_<

Modifié par Drizzt ORierdan, 17 janvier 2011 - 06:15 .

[Dave of Canada]

Probably asked but I wonder who is the one responsible for writing this intimidating lady.

[Dhiro]

Anyway, people, thank Saibh for this pictures:

[Jazharah]

sheesh. So much for this being an 'appreciation' thread, filled with fun speculation about the yet-to-be-officially-revealed character. Why don't you guys open a thread "Mages, The Chantry, and Those In Between", why don't you?

Now show me more pix please

edit: oooh pix, jst while I was posting this. Danke!

Modifié par Jazharah, 17 janvier 2011 - 06:15 .

[Maria Caliban]

Dhiro wrote...

If Hawke is a mage, I think she's gonna be pissed. I don't think anyone wants to see a mage rising to power, except maybe other mages, a Knight-Commander, that probably think they're dangerous probably won't take this well.

'The enemy of my enemy is my friend.'

During a qunari invasion, Meredith might decide a mage champion isn't half bad.

[Dhiro]

And this, also courtesy of Saibh:

[elfdwarf]

he was trying find demons not helping us with wrong doing of logain in elven Alienage.where were they in city elf origins, and don't forget alistair word "they are army "

[Morroian]

Ziggeh wrote...

Two problems with this analogy: firstly, you're average psychopath would struggle to take on entire armed communities on their own and secondly it's not a case of a moral lapse or extreme personality. They are (presumably, I'm not so clear on this point, the existence of the Tevinter Empire makes me believe posession is more complex) 

Also Rivain whose mages willingly consort with spirits. 

[Dhiro]

elfdwarf wrote...

he was trying find demons not helping us with wrong doing of logain in elven Alienage.where were they in city elf origins, and don't forget alistair word "they are army "

Oh, yes. Maybe he should have let the demon kill some elves before the final battle, no?

[Maria Caliban]

Morroian wrote...

Ziggeh wrote...

Two problems with this analogy: firstly, you're average psychopath would struggle to take on entire armed communities on their own and secondly it's not a case of a moral lapse or extreme personality. They are (presumably, I'm not so clear on this point, the existence of the Tevinter Empire makes me believe posession is more complex) 

Also Rivain whose mages willingly consort with spirits. 

Rivaini mages and other apostate traditions might have tests that are every bit as hard as the Harrowing.

[Morroian]

Jazharah wrote...

sheesh. So much for this being an 'appreciation' thread, filled with fun speculation about the yet-to-be-officially-revealed character. Why don't you guys open a thread "Mages, The Chantry, and Those In Between", why don't you?

Its not as though there's a lot to discuss though, and she's probably going to be an antagonist in the game. 

[Sharn01]

filaminstrel wrote...

wulfsturm wrote...

Yeah? With that logic, we as human beings can all be murderers, rapists, and raving lunatics because we are what we are.

Should we throw you in a prison because you may turn into a murderer?

Um, no, that's not the same logic at all. By that logic templars would lock up all of the non-mages too. They don't, because mages pose a much greater risk than your ordinary person of committing horrific actions (whether by fault of their own or not). We've seen it happen, it's called Connor, Uldred, the Tevinter Imperium, etc. etc.

It's more like if a person was born with a nuclear bomb inside of him, which could go off at any moment should he lose concentration. He could also use this bomb as a directed energy WMD on his fellows, should he give in to temptation. Or the bomb could take over his body and prove that Guns Really Do Kill People. Really, there is no real world counterpart to mages, so it's hard to judge what the Templars do to keep mages in check.

I was in the military, I have a lot of training with heavy weapons and demolitions, I am also intelligent enough to make similer oridance out of common day to day items with little to no research depending on what I wanted to do.  With the training I have and taking the time to set things up right I could cause the death of thousands and severely cripple the police force all at relatively the same time. 

Should I be locked up because I know how to do this, or should law enforcement at least wait until I have posed some threat before arresting me?

[Dhiro]

Sharn01 wrote...

filaminstrel wrote...

wulfsturm wrote...

Yeah? With that logic, we as human beings can all be murderers, rapists, and raving lunatics because we are what we are.

Should we throw you in a prison because you may turn into a murderer?

Um, no, that's not the same logic at all. By that logic templars would lock up all of the non-mages too. They don't, because mages pose a much greater risk than your ordinary person of committing horrific actions (whether by fault of their own or not). We've seen it happen, it's called Connor, Uldred, the Tevinter Imperium, etc. etc.

It's more like if a person was born with a nuclear bomb inside of him, which could go off at any moment should he lose concentration. He could also use this bomb as a directed energy WMD on his fellows, should he give in to temptation. Or the bomb could take over his body and prove that Guns Really Do Kill People. Really, there is no real world counterpart to mages, so it's hard to judge what the Templars do to keep mages in check.

I was in the military, I have a lot of training with heavy weapons and demolitions, I am also intelligent enough to make similer oridance out of common day to day items with little to no research depending on what I wanted to do.  With the training I have and taking the time to set things up right I could cause the death of thousands and severely cripple the police force all at relatively the same time. 

Should I be locked up because I know how to do this, or should law enforcement at least wait until I have posed some threat before arresting me?

I think the thing is: mages are aways posing some threat. You don't even know they're posessed if the demon don't want you to.