965 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

Fixers0 wrote...

 He is a terroist, and that's enough for me to know

Name three acts of terrorism worthy of the title that Cerberus has done.

[james1976]

I believe TIM does things he feels is right. The ends justify the means. While others might perceive him as evil, others still call him a patriot. I certainly don't agree with his methods personally.

[Pwner1323]

Define evil......

[Pwner1323]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

 He is a terroist, and that's enough for me to know

Name three acts of terrorism worthy of the title that Cerberus has done.

Im on Cerberus's side but I'll humor you.

1. Exposing fetuses to Element Zero through a transport crash (Bomb detonation I think).
2. Assessinating the former candidate to president of the Terra Firma party.
3. Huskifying an entire Colony (we cleaned up that one).

I can go on if you like.

Modifié par Pwner1323, 17 janvier 2011 - 05:56 .

[primero holodon]

well, is the founder of the ARA or the KKK evil?

[Pwner1323]

primero holodon wrote...

well, is the founder of the ARA or the KKK evil?

I see what you did there....

[KainrycKarr]

Mecha Tengu wrote...

Ozzy57 wrote...

I say he's evil....he just wants humans to dominate at all cost, resulting in deaths of humans and has no concern for other races/species in the ME universe

and how is that "evil"?

How is the death of humans(the very species TIM is so gung ho about protecting) and the blatant racism and malice towards other races/species evil?


Really? Nothing about that seems wrong to you?

Perhaps evil is a strong word.

TIM certainly believes he is doing what is best, which while it may be evil to us, in his mind it is not.

What he is actually doing, is creating conflict and taking drastically extreme measures with experiments, when conducting them in a more human and ethical manner could have yielded the same and possibly better results.

TIM is doing the right thing in protecting humanity, but that's about where it ends. Species-dominance is basically just The Third Reich taken to a galactic level.



Alternatively,  you could just at his face when he turns around to face that star and the schematics for the Collector Base after your last conversation with him.

That is the face of malicious intent if I ever saw it.

[Fixers0]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

 He is a terroist, and that's enough for me to know

Name three acts of terrorism worthy of the title that Cerberus has done.

O well, i'm not the one who declared him a terrorist, you see i'm not an expert on that subject, but fortunately some people who do have understaning on the subject have done it. masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Cerberus and i'm just happy that the agree with me.

But for the Record

1. Murder.
2. unauthorized and unethical experiments on Humans And Aliens (Violation of Human rights.
3. Infiltration of Organisations and goverments.

And the Fact that TIM is a total freak, with no prinicipals or morals.

Modifié par Fixers0, 17 janvier 2011 - 06:08 .

[James2912]

"Evil" and "terrorist" are two labels that simple minds use for people and situations they don't understand. I believe there is true evil out there however the label evil is thrown around way to much.TIM is just looking out for humanity like the STG looks out for the Salarians. Most of the really messed up stuff Cerberus has done TIM didn't know about, which is part of the risk when you cut out all the bureaucratic red tape like governments have. When there is no red tape, people will go overboard like on Pragia. Prison guards abuse their power all the time does that make the prison system evil?

[Drowsy0106]

TIM would have been a great character if it wasn't for that whole 'humanity comes first' act. For someone looking at the bigger picture he sure thinks small.

[Fixers0]

Pwner1323 wrote...

im on Cerberus's side but I'll humor you.

1. Exposing fetuses to Element Zero through a transport crash (Bomb detonation I think). 
     That a serious crime, Sabotage of a civilian transport ship, where did you get that anyway.
2. Assessinating the former candidate to president of the Terra Firma party.
    Murders is a crime you know.
3. Huskifying an entire Colony (we cleaned up that one).
    How unethical of them, they are TERRORISTS.

I can go on if you like
Me To.

Modifié par Fixers0, 17 janvier 2011 - 06:17 .

[KainrycKarr]

James2912 wrote...

"Evil" and "terrorist" are two labels that simple minds use for people and situations they don't understand. I believe there is true evil out there however the label evil is thrown around way to much.TIM is just looking out for humanity like the STG looks out for the Salarians. Most of the really messed up stuff Cerberus has done TIM didn't know about, which is part of the risk when you cut out all the bureaucratic red tape like governments have. When there is no red tape, people will go overboard like on Pragia. Prison guards abuse their power all the time does that make the prison system evil?

Looking out for humanity and TIM's quote about human dominance at the end of ME2 is a little different from the STG.

People need to cut it out with this "Cerberus is just doing what's necessary!!!!!111onezomg!" stuff.

They guy all but explicitly states he is after human DOMINANCE.

That is not a noble objective, if it is, you either grew up in the Third Reich or you're a very disturbed individual.

I know not everyone reads the novels, but TIM  and Cerberus are elaborated on quite a bit in them. TIM is most definately not a being with completely noble intentions. Protecting humanity is only half of his goal. Dominance, again, is the other side of it.

Modifié par KainrycKarr, 17 janvier 2011 - 06:19 .

[Giggles_Manically]

He is not "evil".



He is just insane with lust for power and wants to make himself powerful.

CERBERUS IS HUMANITY!



Okay buddy here is straight jacket and a invitation to the nearest rubber walled room.

[Jagri]

I would say none of the above... I think TIM is mentally unhealthy and shows several warning signs of being a psychopath.

[james1976]

Pwner1323 wrote...

Define evil......

Did you play Mass Effect 1?  Do you not remember the experiments Cerebus did?

[Teknor]

Not evil but he thinks Cerberus is humanity making him guilty of self-aggrandisement.

[klossen4]

Still not not evil would be evil if they did it for fun but Tim really believe what he is doing is better for humanity.

[oldag07]

Fixers0 wrote...

Pwner1323 wrote...

im on Cerberus's side but I'll humor you.

1. Exposing fetuses to Element Zero through a transport crash (Bomb detonation I think). 
     That a serious crime, Sabotage of a civilian transport ship, where did you get that anyway.
2. Assessinating the former candidate to president of the Terra Firma party.
    Murders is a crime you know.
3. Huskifying an entire Colony (we cleaned up that one).
    How unethical of them, they are TERRORISTS.

I can go on if you like
Me To.

Those of us who are obsessed enough with ME  to read the books (like me) have read more about of the crimes that Cerberus has done.  Like so many things, the IM actions are not black and white.  But I do think the rest of the Council is right, humanity is a bit agressive, and it should slow down its development.

Modifié par oldag07, 17 janvier 2011 - 06:34 .

[Bailyn242]

Nah, he ain't evil... he's just Hitler with a hipper rap. The guy is absolutely amoral. 

• Detonates a drive core over a population center to advance human biotics.
• Rachni experiments
• Thorian Creeper Experiments
• Husk Experiments
• Destroys several colonies to advance the above experiments.
• Akuze, nuff said.
• Admiral Kahoku.
• Takes infant victim of the above and turns her over to a lackey to raise. Then has another lackey experiment on her until someone takes her away. (ME: Ascension)
• Sends multiple teams into reaper ruins to "study" the tech. Fails to mention Reaper indoctrination to the survey crew and calls Shepard in to clean up his mess.
• Lies about Liara.
• Lies about Alliance / Horizon.
• Lies about Turian Signal.
• Orders you to keep the base.
• Wants to build a Reaper.

I really want to bring down Cerberus. You know, show up with the Normandy at his little space station by the Blue Giant and maybe push it in? 

[LorDC]

Pwner1323 wrote...
Im on Cerberus's side but I'll humor you.

1. Exposing fetuses to Element Zero through a transport crash (Bomb detonation I think).
2. Assessinating the former candidate to president of the Terra Firma party.
3. Huskifying an entire Colony (we cleaned up that one).

I can go on if you like.

So lets go to wikipedia and look at Terrorism article. First sentence there is:

Terrorism is the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion.

While all those actions may have put some fear in human minds(as any kind of crime will do) it is obvious that it was not the main goal of those actions. And it is obvious that Cerberus didn't mean to coerce anyone into doing anything. So those actions are not terrorism in any way.

[Pwner1323]

LorDC wrote...

Pwner1323 wrote...
Im on Cerberus's side but I'll humor you.

1. Exposing fetuses to Element Zero through a transport crash (Bomb detonation I think).
2. Assessinating the former candidate to president of the Terra Firma party.
3. Huskifying an entire Colony (we cleaned up that one).

I can go on if you like.

So lets go to wikipedia and look at Terrorism article. First sentence there is:

Terrorism is the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion.

While all those actions may have put some fear in human minds(as any kind of crime will do) it is obvious that it was not the main goal of those actions. And it is obvious that Cerberus didn't mean to coerce anyone into doing anything. So those actions are not terrorism in any way.

Oh almighty WIKIPEDIA! How old is God!?

Modifié par Pwner1323, 17 janvier 2011 - 06:43 .

[oldag07]

Bailyn242 wrote...

[*]Lies about Liara.[*]Lies about Alliance / Horizon.[*]Lies about Turian Signal.[*]Orders you to keep the base.[*]Wants to build a Reaper.[/list]I really want to bring down Cerberus. You know, show up with the Normandy at his little space station by the Blue Giant and maybe push it in? 

While I agree with most of your statements, I wouldn't say these  were persay "evil".

Liara: He might legitimately not know anything about Liara.  She was an information dealer.  It probably was difficult to find information about her.
Alliance/Horizon.  He didn't order the VS to go to Horizon, the Alliance did.  As with the Turian signal, a commander doesn't necessarly need to tell his troops everything about a particular mission.
Turian.  Same thing. . . and it worked
Orders to keep the base.  The only thing one could call unethical about keeping the base was the fact that Ceberus, thus the IM, would get his hand on it  Hence when trying to judge the character of the IM, this becomes a circular argument.  He is evil because he is evil.
I don't remember him trying to build a reaper.  Admittedly, I haven't read the third book.  He has experimented unethicially with reaper technology.

[Aeowyn]

TIM is the love child between Harbinger and Sovereign. However, he could not assume direct control and was therefore cast off to the world of us organics. There he plots his evil plans, breeding darkspawn and killing babies before he smokes his daily cigarette and yells "Why father, why can I not assume direct control?!"

[LorDC]

Pwner1323 wrote...
Oh almighty WIKIPEDIA! How old is God!?

Do you have another definition of terrorism? One that will be universally agreed upon? Share it with us please.

[Pwner1323]

Lying about Liara: easily debatable.

Wants to build Reaper: Complete speculation on Paragon Shepard's part and cannot be used as it is obvious 
                                            that TIM only wants to dominate the other races throought the tech in the Collector Base.
                                            Also, Cerberus doesn't have the resources for something like that.