965 réponses à ce sujet

[James2912]

If it weren't for TIM the galaxy would be harvested by the Reapers, he brought Shep back. Call him evil all you want But as Alfred said in the Dark Kight

"Endure, Master Wayne. Take it. They'll hate you for it, but that's the point of Batman, he can be the outcast. He can make the choice that no one else can make, the right choice."

Now just replace Batman with TIM and you get my point.

[vader da slayer]

he has good intentions, but you know what they say about good intentions.

[Moiaussi]

James2912 wrote...

If it weren't for TIM the galaxy would be harvested by the Reapers, he brought Shep back. Call him evil all you want But as Alfred said in the Dark Kight
"Endure, Master Wayne. Take it. They'll hate you for it, but that's the point of Batman, he can be the outcast. He can make the choice that no one else can make, the right choice."
Now just replace Batman with TIM and you get my point.

Now if Bruce had actually committed the crime he was 'enduring' the fallout from, rather than taking the heat to keep the city stable and build up a scary reputation to help him be more effective dealing with criminals, you might have a valid comparason.

Last I checked though, Batman doesn't order assassinations on politicians inconvenient to him. He refuses to even kill the Joker, or any of the other psychopathic serial killers he comes up against, at least not in any modern interpretation.

[Arijharn]

Moiaussi wrote...

James2912 wrote...

If it weren't for TIM the galaxy would be harvested by the Reapers, he brought Shep back. Call him evil all you want But as Alfred said in the Dark Kight
"Endure, Master Wayne. Take it. They'll hate you for it, but that's the point of Batman, he can be the outcast. He can make the choice that no one else can make, the right choice."
Now just replace Batman with TIM and you get my point.

Now if Bruce had actually committed the crime he was 'enduring' the fallout from, rather than taking the heat to keep the city stable and build up a scary reputation to help him be more effective dealing with criminals, you might have a valid comparason.

Last I checked though, Batman doesn't order assassinations on politicians inconvenient to him. He refuses to even kill the Joker, or any of the other psychopathic serial killers he comes up against, at least not in any modern interpretation.

Lol, that's kinda a horrible example to use imo.

Consider this; Joker gets out of arkham asylum, Joker kills a few people (say 10?), Batman beats the snot out of him and sends him back to prison (cough; the asylum), joker breaks out again in about a month (or x months) goes on yet another murderous rampage and kills another lot of people (say 10?). Batman beats the snot out of the Joker and throws him back into prison (*cough*asylum*cough*). What do you think happens again?

When someone comes to kill the Joker (*cough*the Punisher?*cough*), Batman practically jumps in front of the bullet.

Imagine how many deaths Batman would prevent if he just swallowed his damn pride and killed the Joker. What does his morale stand mean by not killing him? He's causing even *more* casualties because of it.


There is a message in here somewhere though; but you're obviously not a dumb ass, so I think you can find it easily enough.

Modifié par Arijharn, 10 février 2011 - 10:01 .

[Moiaussi]

Arijharn wrote...

Lol, that's kinda a horrible example to use imo.

Consider this; Joker gets out of arkham asylum, Joker kills a few people (say 10?), Batman beats the snot out of him and sends him back to prison (cough; the asylum), joker breaks out again in about a month (or x months) goes on yet another murderous rampage and kills another lot of people (say 10?). Batman beats the snot out of the Joker and throws him back into prison (*cough*asylum*cough*). What do you think happens again?

When someone comes to kill the Joker (*cough*the Punisher?*cough*), Batman practically jumps in front of the bullet.

Imagine how many deaths Batman would prevent if he just swallowed his damn pride and killed the Joker. What does his morale stand mean by not killing him? He's causing even *more* casualties because of it.


There is a message in here somewhere though; but you're obviously not a dumb ass, so I think you can find it easily enough.

In RL, a sniper would have taken Joker out long ago, perfectly legally. Police are actually allowed to use the guns they carry in such circumstances, after all. Lol he is dangerous enough that it could even be a national guard sniper. 

And in most states he would be executed rather than simply put in an asylum, psychopath or not.

Joker is only alive due to comic book cliche plot armor.

Note I wasn't the one comparing TIM with Batman. In fact, I was pointing out the differences, which help explain why Gordon does work with him.

[Wulfram]

Stalin was still evil, even though he played a key role in defeating Hitler.

[Arijharn]

Moiaussi wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

Lol, that's kinda a horrible example to use imo.

Consider this; Joker gets out of arkham asylum, Joker kills a few people (say 10?), Batman beats the snot out of him and sends him back to prison (cough; the asylum), joker breaks out again in about a month (or x months) goes on yet another murderous rampage and kills another lot of people (say 10?). Batman beats the snot out of the Joker and throws him back into prison (*cough*asylum*cough*). What do you think happens again?

When someone comes to kill the Joker (*cough*the Punisher?*cough*), Batman practically jumps in front of the bullet.

Imagine how many deaths Batman would prevent if he just swallowed his damn pride and killed the Joker. What does his morale stand mean by not killing him? He's causing even *more* casualties because of it.


There is a message in here somewhere though; but you're obviously not a dumb ass, so I think you can find it easily enough.

In RL, a sniper would have taken Joker out long ago, perfectly legally. Police are actually allowed to use the guns they carry in such circumstances, after all. Lol he is dangerous enough that it could even be a national guard sniper. 

And in most states he would be executed rather than simply put in an asylum, psychopath or not.

Joker is only alive due to comic book cliche plot armor.

Note I wasn't the one comparing TIM with Batman. In fact, I was pointing out the differences, which help explain why Gordon does work with him.

Oh, I know in real life he'd be dead pretty quickly, but I'm just pointing out that Batman, while a complete and utter bad ass is also a complete and utter moron (Yeah, I went there).

A lot of 'good' would come out of it though if Batman just did the deed and removed (permanently) one complete and utter psychopath. There'd be many more, but the bodycount would have dropped. I mean, seriously, who'd want to move and live in gotham city with so many super villians runnign around the place?

[Asheer_Khan]

IF tim can be compared to anyone from DC Batman universe then he is similar to Ra's Al Ghul or Lex Luthor. <_<

Modifié par Asheer_Khan, 10 février 2011 - 02:52 .

[wolfsite]

Arijharn wrote...

Moiaussi wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

Lol, that's kinda a horrible example to use imo.

Consider this; Joker gets out of arkham asylum, Joker kills a few people (say 10?), Batman beats the snot out of him and sends him back to prison (cough; the asylum), joker breaks out again in about a month (or x months) goes on yet another murderous rampage and kills another lot of people (say 10?). Batman beats the snot out of the Joker and throws him back into prison (*cough*asylum*cough*). What do you think happens again?

When someone comes to kill the Joker (*cough*the Punisher?*cough*), Batman practically jumps in front of the bullet.

Imagine how many deaths Batman would prevent if he just swallowed his damn pride and killed the Joker. What does his morale stand mean by not killing him? He's causing even *more* casualties because of it.


There is a message in here somewhere though; but you're obviously not a dumb ass, so I think you can find it easily enough.

In RL, a sniper would have taken Joker out long ago, perfectly legally. Police are actually allowed to use the guns they carry in such circumstances, after all. Lol he is dangerous enough that it could even be a national guard sniper. 

And in most states he would be executed rather than simply put in an asylum, psychopath or not.

Joker is only alive due to comic book cliche plot armor.

Note I wasn't the one comparing TIM with Batman. In fact, I was pointing out the differences, which help explain why Gordon does work with him.

Oh, I know in real life he'd be dead pretty quickly, but I'm just pointing out that Batman, while a complete and utter bad ass is also a complete and utter moron (Yeah, I went there).

A lot of 'good' would come out of it though if Batman just did the deed and removed (permanently) one complete and utter psychopath. There'd be many more, but the bodycount would have dropped. I mean, seriously, who'd want to move and live in gotham city with so many super villians runnign around the place?

Well with this it's always about making Batman cross that line and kill Joker.  In many instances the Joker is only doing what he does to try to get Batman to cross the line and finish him, but then Joker would win in the end.

If you watch Batman: Under the Red Hood there is a great segment in there about why Batman refuses to kill him.  It's more about the fear of not being able to stop once he crosses the line, about falling deeper and just killing more and more until he is consumed in blood and death just like the Joker essentially becoming him.

[James2912]

yes I succeeded in turning this into a Batman thread!

[Whatever42]

Is there a Godwin's Law for Batman? If not, we could call it James2912's Law. Doesn't exactly roll of the tongue, though.



But back on topic... From the way you are describing the situation with Batman, the guys is an idiot.

[Moiaussi]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

IF tim can be compared to anyone from DC Batman universe then he is similar to Ra's Al Ghul or Lex Luthor. <_<

Ras isn't that bad a comparason, actually, right down to the ressurrection aspect.

[Moiaussi]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Is there a Godwin's Law for Batman? If not, we could call it James2912's Law. Doesn't exactly roll of the tongue, though.

Would you really want James2912 rolling off your tongue? I know I wouldn't.

But back on topic... From the way you are describing the situation with Batman, the guys is an idiot.

Is he? He never makes any attempt to disarm the police nor has he fought capital punishment laws as Bruce. Frankly it is a good thing that most people don't take the law into their own hands to the exent of lethal force whenever they personally feel it is warranted.

How many criminals have you killed? Taking into account the possibility that you are a soldier, how many people have you killed outside of a warzone, regardless of reason?

The Joker is the 'easy' case. The problem is the cases that merely seem easy.

And with TIM, it is easy for him to criticize the council or the Alliance when he takes the attitide that it doesn't matter how many he kills along the way. And don't tell me that the soldiers on Akuze, or the passengers on the ship he ordered sabotaged, or any of the others we know suffered or died due to Cerberus were all equivalent to the Joker.

There is an arguement for killing the Joker, but not so much for blowing up whatever bank the Joker is robbing (and everyone in it) just to do so..... especially if the Joker isn't even actually in the bank, and you are just blowing up the bank to learn better ways to do so in case the Joker does ever rob that bank.

How is that for 'back on topic?'

[James2912]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Is there a Godwin's Law for Batman? If not, we could call it James2912's Law. Doesn't exactly roll of the tongue, though.

But back on topic... From the way you are describing the situation with Batman, the guys is an idiot.

You may call it James's Law thats fine. 

[Fromyou]

James this isn't batman (despite that i myself made a reference). IT'S OVER 9000 VIEWS

[James2912]

Fromyou wrote...

James this isn't batman (despite that i myself made a reference). IT'S OVER 9000 VIEWS

sorry I will get back on topic. 

What I mean is TIM is going to keep on doing the right thing even if everybody hates him because he is stronger than that he doesn't need to be liked. If it wasn't for TIM the galaxy would be easy prey for the Reapers. He is a man of vision, the only leader that we know of that is actually doing something to stop the reapers. If TIM is evil, than its evil that saved the galaxy. 

[Moiaussi]

James2912 wrote...

Fromyou wrote...

James this isn't batman (despite that i myself made a reference). IT'S OVER 9000 VIEWS

sorry I will get back on topic. 

What I mean is TIM is going to keep on doing the right thing even if everybody hates him because he is stronger than that he doesn't need to be liked. If it wasn't for TIM the galaxy would be easy prey for the Reapers. He is a man of vision, the only leader that we know of that is actually doing something to stop the reapers. If TIM is evil, than its evil that saved the galaxy. 

It is easy to do good if your only definition is your own. Under that kind of definition, you can basicly do whatever you want... you could even define selling out to the reapers as 'good', which is what happened with Saren.

Not saying he would repeat Saren's choices specificly, but when you are willing to 'do anything' in the name of saving the universe, such actions do tend to get included in 'anything.'

[Moiaussi]

By the way, I get the impression that if TIM does turn out to be the proverbial wrong horse to back, that at least some of the posters here are going to be more upset with the writers than with themselves....

[chapa3]

If the Illusive Man is not greenlighting the insane experiments that we all know so well, then it will be the Alliance doing them, akin to the illegal AI research scandel that Saren and Anderson investigated. He is an excellent scapegoat, and is willing to risk the assassination attempts and labels of terrorism to enjoy the credits he makes and the contribution he makes toward gray-area, unethical research that the STG groups and whatever Area 51 units the Turians and the Asari have. Remember, Mordin helped modify the Genophage. The Illusive Man is a necessary evil.

That said, I fully expect him to betray Shepard if the Reapers are destroyed and if both Shepard and the Illusive Man are still alive.

Modifié par chapa3, 10 février 2011 - 10:27 .

[Fromyou]

it's cool james, just been on edge since off topicness ruined one of my post. Though according to Miranda she claims that extreme experiments were rogue ones

[chapa3]

Some of the extremem experiments were rogue, such as Akuze, the Admiral Kahoku thing, and Pragia. Overlord is arguably a rogue experiment. The others were not.

[Manic Sheep]

chapa3 wrote...

Some of the extremem experiments were rogue, such as Akuze, the Admiral Kahoku thing, and Pragia. Overlord is arguably a rogue experiment. The others were not.

The only ones presented as rogue were overlord and pragia. I can't recall it ever being suggested that Akuze or the Admiral Kahoku thing was rogue at all.

[chapa3]

Admiral Kahoku said in his last message to Shepard that "They have gone completely rogue! They are trying to create a super-soldier."

[Manic Sheep]

chapa3 wrote...

Admiral Kahoku said in his last message to Shepard that "They have gone completely rogue! They are trying to create a super-soldier."

Ah right...I thought that was because they were rogue from the Aliance? Not rogue in relation to the rest of Cerberus. Admiral Kahoku wouldn’t know anyway, they Allince may well have known and supported it. It would have to be a judgment based on what he is seeing.’ The alliance would not condone this and they are doing this in secret therefore they must be rogue’ He was investigating all this on his own.

Modifié par Manic Sheep, 10 février 2011 - 11:42 .

[chapa3]

Rogue could mean being a renegade or pariah, or it could mean to betray and secede. In theory, all Cerberus operations seem to be "rogue". The Illusive Man treats his projects like a CEO treats his/her firm. Hire a couple of people that can be "trusted", then delegate authority, telling project leaders to hire more people and focus resources at personal discretion. All the Illusive Man supplies is the topic to be researched and the money to fund the project.

Whether or not Cerberus is a secret part of the Alliance is still speculative, although I myself am leaning toward the "part of Alliance" camp.

Modifié par chapa3, 10 février 2011 - 11:55 .