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[Sylvius the Mad]

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

hey...go ahead! It's your game, after all.

The above quote is taken from the family resemblance thread.

Now, I love that Mike's saying that it's our game, and we can do with it what we will.  But much of DA2's design seems directly in conflict with this sentiment.

David Gaider says he's excited that the players can't change Isabela's garment to something less Isabela-like.  Why?  It's our game, right?  Why can't we do what we like?

One of the supposed benefits of the paraphrase system is that it prevents people from skipping dialogue.  As David said:

David Gaider wrote...

we want people to hear the lines and the VO.

But why do you care?  Again, isn't it "our game", after all?

DA2's design appears to be aimed at causing the players to experience the game as the designers would like it to be experienced, as yet whenever we learn of a feature that allows us greater freedom than that it is explained as Mike did above.  "Go ahead! It's your game, after all. 

These positions appear to be in conflict.

[Gavinthelocust]

It's a CONSPIRACY!

[Dhiro]

Sylvius. I understand what you're trying to say, but... maybe you're reading too much in it? The devs also have expectation about the game, is their, ah, baby too.

[Eternal Phoenix]

You caught them out.

[Xewaka]

I see the positions as complementary rather than opposite. While they encourage you to play the way they intended it to be played (as is the way most worked at in QA, and the one who they believe guarantees enjoyment for a larger fraction of the public), they give the game enough flexibility to accomodate (up to a point, this is still a limited media) to whatever the player wishes to accomplish.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Dhiro wrote...

maybe you're reading too much in it?

If I've made an unreasonable leap I would welcome someone pointing it out.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Xewaka wrote...

 (up to a point, this is still a limited media)

But these restrictions aren't limitations of the medium, as we've seen games made by these same people without those limitations.  These new limitations have been invented by the development team to advance some goal of theirs, but that goal appears in conflict with their assertions that this is "our game".

[Maria Caliban]

You don't own the game. You own a license for a copy of it. Mods allow you to alter the game, but that's because the developer and publisher allow it.

[Malevolence65]

Bioware makes games. You don't. They are better at it than you are.

[Dhiro]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

maybe you're reading too much in it?

If I've made an unreasonable leap I would welcome someone pointing it out.

*sigh* I have to agree I don't see any holes in your logic, but again, I suck at discussions.

Anyway, if the game don't have something that it's not decided by we, what's the difference between Dragon Age and... well, The Word? Surely you don't think that Dragon Age: Origens gave you ilimited freedom?

[UndercoverDoctor]

Cry me a river.

[SultryVulcan]

Are you being sarcastic?

It is our game....within the parameters that Bioware constructed.

[Sir JK]

I think the problems boil down to your preference of making your own story from Bioware's foundations as opposed to that Bioware tell you a story you have a leeway in. The latter allows you freedom within the framework of the story told, but not outside of it.

Which I think is what Mike Laidlaw meant, whereas it is a good thing that Isabela cannot have her outfit changed because how she clothes herself is one of the ways we are told of her personality. They also want people to hear the voicework because they put an effort in trying to get it just right and want you to hear it because it becomes a part of the story they are telling you.



So that's basically how I interpret it. You have the freedom to act in the story and to do whatever you wish of the options presented. But trying to go outside of it and ignore the effort Bioware put into getting it the way they wanted to, well... they did not design the game to accomodate for that.



If this does not suit your preferences, then perhaps it is a sign you and Bioware do not share that view.

[Images]

OP - Give it up boyo. untwist your knickers and relax. If you dig the game when it comes out, huzzah. If you don't, boo hoo. It will be a pain but it ain't the end of the world. I actually agree that I wasn't overly fond of most of the changes myself, especially the party member outfit locking but I trust Bioware. Its not a case of blind faith as in "they can do no wrong" but a case of earned trust as in "so far, they really haven't done much wrong!". Bioware seems a LOT more focused on audience enjoyment than any other company and they're just trying to make our whining asses (including me) have fun. They try to take our opinions on board but we're an annoying bunch. For example, I was relieved when I heard that ME3 will have more of the requested RPG factors back in that were slimmed down for ME2 even when LOADS of people whined about the awkwardness of the large inventory and system in ME1.

Trust. Its a GOOD thing.

Modifié par Images, 17 janvier 2011 - 06:59 .

[Ryzaki]

I feel your pain. Really though I've felt BW games were becoming more and more JRPG like. Granted there's nothing wrong with that per sa but it's disappointing.

[Xewaka]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Xewaka wrote...
 (up to a point, this is still a limited media)

But these restrictions aren't limitations of the medium, as we've seen games made by these same people without those limitations.  These new limitations have been invented by the development team to advance some goal of theirs, but that goal appears in conflict with their assertions that this is "our game".

I should have specified that since they are experimenting with new ways of delivering content, the limitation comes from these new, experimental ways, rather than from the media. The media allows enormous quantities of variation, true, but given the finite nature of the resources at their disposal, they went with the route that would allow them to experiment, at the cost of certain flexibility from former, proven methods.

[JigPig]

Sylvius, you need to get a job.

[ViSeiRa]

I always asked myself a question that nearly drove me mad... Why can't the coffee maker make cookies?

[Dhiro]

Ryzaki wrote...

I feel your pain. Really though I've felt BW games were becoming more and more JRPG like. Granted there's nothing wrong with that per sa but it's disappointing.

They are? I know of J-RPGs, and I can say that DA II is far from one.

[Ryzaki]

Dhiro wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I feel your pain. Really though I've felt BW games were becoming more and more JRPG like. Granted there's nothing wrong with that per sa but it's disappointing.

They are? I know of J-RPGs, and I can say that DA II is far from one.

More JRPG like. As in the devs telling you the story they want to tell instead of letting you experiment.

And before I hear "so does X genre that isn't rpgs" duh. But I always thought the appeal of WRPGs was supposed to be making your own story.

Oddly I never felt the differences so starkly than when playing FONV then ME2 and comparing the aspect of choices and consequences.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 17 janvier 2011 - 07:03 .

[Herr Uhl]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

maybe you're reading too much in it?

If I've made an unreasonable leap I would welcome someone pointing it out.

The postulation that Mike made was that once you buy what they created, you can do anything you want with it. At least that was how I read it.

[Sigil_Beguiler123]

It is our game but it is also theirs. We are experiencing, influencing, etc. the world, characters, plot, etc. that they have created. We have freedom to experience the game through Hawke. We aren't curtailed down one specific path but at the same time they have established characters, established plot points, etc.

I have always viewed both computer and P&P RPGs as a collaborative story between players and developers/DM.

[Heimdall]

Ryzaki wrote...

I feel your pain. Really though I've felt BW games were becoming more and more JRPG like. Granted there's nothing wrong with that per sa but it's disappointing.

I've played plenty of JRPGs and no Bioware game yet made is anywhere close to one.

[Dhiro]

Ryzaki wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I feel your pain. Really though I've felt BW games were becoming more and more JRPG like. Granted there's nothing wrong with that per sa but it's disappointing.

They are? I know of J-RPGs, and I can say that DA II is far from one.

More JRPG like. As in the devs telling you the story they want to tell instead of letting you experiment.

I don't see how DA II let you experiment a story any less than Origins :< ...Except the no-race and the voice actor part.