1044 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

Xewaka wrote...

Felfenix wrote...
Fortunately there are games out there just for him: Previous Bioware games. If you don't want something new, then stick with the old.

Because clearly, asking to try and improve existing mechanics instead of throwing it out of the window is madness.

Throwing them out is an improvement.

[Xewaka]

AlanC9 wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

Felfenix wrote...
Fortunately there are games out there just for him: Previous Bioware games. If you don't want something new, then stick with the old.

Because clearly, asking to try and improve existing mechanics instead of throwing it out of the window is madness.

Throwing them out is an improvement.

That is debatable.

[Maria Caliban]

eyesofastorm wrote...

I don't remember asking your opinion Maria!

I know you'd ask if you weren't so shy.

[moilami]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

i'm sure there will mods within a week of release that allow you to change companion clothing. mostly to being naked, if the trend is anything like DAO but it's not as if that is going to be always like that. just a pro to playing pc versus console I guess.

btw i ordered the 360 version myself so i'm not a pc fangirl

Great! You don't believe me but I was about to write a reply where I voice my concerns regarding can I undress chicks in DA2.

I will have to think if I have to promise I will nerdrage in these forums the day I get DA2 if it is not possible to undress chicks on it.

[eyesofastorm]

Maria Caliban wrote...

eyesofastorm wrote...

I don't remember asking your opinion Maria!

I know you'd ask if you weren't so shy.

lol

[Bryy_Miller]

Xewaka wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

Felfenix wrote...
Fortunately there are games out there just for him: Previous Bioware games. If you don't want something new, then stick with the old.

Because clearly, asking to try and improve existing mechanics instead of throwing it out of the window is madness.

Throwing them out is an improvement.

That is debatable.

So is calling it madness. Goes both ways.

[FieryDove]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Whereas, I think they almost got it right with their first RPG (still some problems there, but a terrific effort), and have generally moved in the wrong direction ever since.

Sylvius wins.

[AlanC9]

Sharn01 wrote...
Before ME2 came out they kept telling us in the advertising that it was our Shepard and we controlled the decisions.  This didnt change the fact that when I actually played the game I couldnt do more then make minor complaints at being forced down a path the Shepard I played through ME with would never take.

Which makes DAO and ME2 about equal in that regard. Did Bio say we control decisions in DAO? I honestly don't remember.

  It also didnt allow me to not attempt to **** myself out to Jacob in any conversation I had with him forcing me to just not talk to him at all to keep in character.  

Huh? My last FemShep didn't try for a romance there and didn't say anything inappropriate.

[upsettingshorts]

FieryDove wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Whereas, I think they almost got it right with their first RPG (still some problems there, but a terrific effort), and have generally moved in the wrong direction ever since.

Sylvius wins.

Technically, based on his perspective - he's been losing since September 2000.  I've been winning!

...unless you meant to write, "I agree with Sylvius."  In which case, good for you.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 18 janvier 2011 - 01:47 .

[Xewaka]

AlanC9 wrote...
Which makes DAO and ME2 about equal in that regard. Did Bio say we control decisions in DAO? I honestly don't remember.

Dragon Age Origins does give more information when making the choices. So we do have a higher degree of choice in DA:O compared to ME2.

[AlanC9]

Xewaka wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

Felfenix wrote...
Fortunately there are games out there just for him: Previous Bioware games. If you don't want something new, then stick with the old.

Because clearly, asking to try and improve existing mechanics instead of throwing it out of the window is madness.

Throwing them out is an improvement.

That is debatable.

Yep, and I'm willing to have the debate, anytime. As long as we all remember that since what AlanC9 thinks is improvement and what Xewaka thinks is improvement are completely different things, Bio is free to agree with either of us -- or neither of us -- without going against what "we" want.

And no need to bring "madness" into it.

Modifié par AlanC9, 18 janvier 2011 - 01:50 .

[In Exile]

eyesofastorm wrote...

Key word... great.  Previous games were great in your words.  Now you are saying changes to a formula that was GREAT will be improvements before you've even had hands on.  How does that work?

Let us say you always ate meat, but in the past you had only chicken, You've never had a reason to dislike chicken, and many people happen to like it a lot. Then, it just so happens one time you are served veal, instead. Your first time having it, in fact. You realize you like veal a lot more than you like chicken. So you now want veal instead of chicken.

The idea here is that you can like something, but not realize you like something else more until you try it. I always was OK with silent VO... until I had PC VO in an RPG. And then I realized I liked it a lot more than silent VO.

Analogy aside, basically what features of Bioware games appealed to us (say, shorts & me) and what features appealed to you (or Sylvius) are not the same thing.

So when Bioware adds PC VO, to Sylvius this takes away from what he likes. For me & shorts, this enhances what we liked. Because we never liked, nor agreed on, what those first things that made Bioware games great were.

[In Exile]

Xewaka wrote..
That's fair. But I believe that an informed argument should have all viewpoints available to all participants, so that people can check the background of those viewpoints and see if they have data to share that could cause the reconsideration of said viewpoints.

In that case, though, we have to be receptive to identifying the problem effectively. We've discussed localization in the past, and it seems to be that you cannot separate problems with the method of localization from problems with the dialogue system. I agree with you that as it stands, the way the game is localized poses a big problem for the paraphrase that isn't there for the full-text, but this does not prove that there is a problem with the paraphrase. It is an equivalent proof that the method of localization needs to change.

[AndarianTD]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

DA2's design appears to be aimed at causing the players to experience the game as the designers would like it to be experienced...

Excellent, if true.

[FieryDove]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Technically, based on his perspective - he's been losing since September 2000.  I've been winning!

...unless you meant to write, "I agree with Sylvius."  In which case, good for you.

Well maybe they can hire him as a creative director for da3. I would love to play an RPG with his ideas in mind.

Hmm...wait I did it was called origins but they won't make anymore of those type of games sadly because they *sucked*.

[upsettingshorts]

FieryDove wrote...

Well maybe they can hire him as a creative director for da3. I would love to play an RPG with his ideas in mind.

Hmm...wait I did it was called origins but they won't make anymore of those type of games sadly because they *sucked*.

Dragon Age Origins was released a decade after the cRPG Sylvius cites as Bioware's best.  And no-one here is saying Origins sucked.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 18 janvier 2011 - 01:55 .

[FieryDove]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Dragon Age Origins was released a decade after the cRPG Sylvius cites as Bioware's best.  And no-one here is saying Origins sucked.

No one in this thread...maybe.

But some of the Devs themselves as well as many previewers seem to be piling on the suck when speaking of origins trying to say how much better da2 is. I get they want to sell the game but dao was a dang fine game to be proud of. That's just how things are coming across to me.

BG was and is awesome too. No rose-colored glasses here, just haven't played it since win7...somethings it doesn't like.

Modifié par FieryDove, 18 janvier 2011 - 02:02 .

[moilami]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

FieryDove wrote...

Well maybe they can hire him as a creative director for da3. I would love to play an RPG with his ideas in mind.

Hmm...wait I did it was called origins but they won't make anymore of those type of games sadly because they *sucked*.

Dragon Age Origins was released a decade after the cRPG Sylvius cites as Bioware's best.  And no-one here is saying Origins sucked.

Origins is awesome and especially Casteles origin. Talk about starting from the bottom!

[slimgrin]

Sounds like Sylvius is only concerned about Bioware nerfing player choice, and to a degree they have. They did it for ME2, and now for DA2. Not making any value judgments here, but the type of game they want to make is parting ways with many of their old fans, so I don't think people should be surprised by this.

Modifié par slimgrin, 18 janvier 2011 - 02:08 .

[In Exile]

FieryDove wrote...
But some of the Devs themselves as well as many previewers seem to be piling on the suck when speaking of origins trying to say how much better da2 is.

They are talking about things they don't like - e.g. the graphics or combat.

You don't hear them say things like the story was terrible, or the characters were uninspired, do you? I think they legitimately feel they had a problem with how and what they implemented.

Personally, I prefer a developer to be honest about what they can do, rather than say take potshots at other developers (I'm looking at you, Deus Ex and TW2).

BG was and is awesome too. No rose-colored glasses here, just haven't played it since win7...somethings it doesn't like.

That's certainly a matter of opinion. I think it's just a game that shows you how much Bioware improved on their early flaws, even if you can get by the abhorent thing that is D&D.

[eyesofastorm]

In Exile wrote...

Fiery Dove wrote...
BG was and is awesome too. No rose-colored glasses here, just haven't played it since win7...somethings it doesn't like.

That's certainly a matter of opinion. I think it's just a game that shows you how much Bioware improved on their early flaws, even if you can get by the abhorent thing that is D&D.

Come on... that the BG's are some of the best (if not THE best) RPG's of all time is as close to universally accepted as anything gets in gaming.

[Night Prowler76]

The game seems to have lost alot of its charm, the devs talk about Origins like it was a piece of crap lol, I think they are losing site or what RPG's were meant to be. This framed narrative they are talking about is nothing more than the ME system, you are just along for the ride, and the staggering choices you get to make are whether to be a nice guy, or an ass.



They have seen the money that ME brought in, especially on the consoles, so its not surprise they are going to model DA off of that system, I will still pick up DA2, but I will wait till its in the 20 dollar bin, I think I will grab the Witcher 2 instead, I prefer the realistic graphics in it compared to the "artisic" style of DA2, heck, even ME2 looks way better than any screens I have seen for DA2, its sad,

[Meltemph]

That is what explicit means.

Degree of, yes, but it is quite explicit outside of spelling it out for you, at least it is to me.

It is, actually. It's a proper subset of a lack of knowledge.

Not if you actually do know from an outside source confirming it, when I said willful ignorance I mean the ignorance of you actually knowing something.

The story is just the narrative that follows the characters' decisions and actions. I'm not sure it makes any sense to judge its quality.

The story defines what you can do with the character and the quality of everything. A bad story drags everything else down with it. If your RPing makes the story stupid/nonsensical/worse then like I said, that is an inferior way to RP, to me, and I don't want the developers to encourage such a thing.



The whole of the story/lore is more important then any one character to me.

[Ziggeh]

Night Prowler76 wrote...
This framed narrative they are talking about is nothing more than the ME system, you are just along for the ride, and the staggering choices you get to make are whether to be a nice guy, or an ass.

Eh? How have you drawn that conclusion from the use of a literary technique?

[upsettingshorts]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

This framed narrative they are talking about is nothing more than the ME system, you are just along for the ride, and the staggering choices you get to make are whether to be a nice guy, or an ass.

Mass Effect does not have a framed narrative.  

Night Prowler76 wrote...

I think I will grab the Witcher 2 instead

I haven't followed TW2's development, but The Witcher had a framed narrative.