1044 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

Meltemph wrote...

Degree of, yes, but it is quite explicit outside of spelling it out for you, at least it is to me.

There's really no wiggle room in "explicit".

And this isn't.

Not if you actually do know from an outside source confirming it, when I said willful ignorance I mean the ignorance of you actually knowing something.

The outside source is demonstrably unreliable.

The story defines what you can do with the character and the quality of everything.

No, that's what the authored narrative does, which is part of the story, yes, but it's not the whole story.  You're ignoring the player's input.

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I don't think that describes the nature of the surprise accurately.

I think the surprise stems from the notion that players like Sylvius and I are just now - with Mass Effect and DA2 - discovering that each other exist.

Actually, I don't particularly care that you exist.  I mean, you're as welcome to play and enjoy the games as I am, but when they discard features I like - particularly without adding features that you like - I'm going to raise a hue and cry.

eyesofastorm wrote...

Sylvius has been here for a REALLY long time.  Dude is as old and dedicated a Bioware fan as there is.

To be fair, there are older fans.  I didn't find BioWare until after the release of TotSC.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 18 janvier 2011 - 04:18 .

[In Exile]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
But you did like the silent PC games, right?  You just said so.

I also liked the silent PC games.

Note the past tense. I liked the feature. Now, I don't; not when I know there is a feature that is so many times superior it is hard to quantify the difference.

Right now, silent VO is a negative I have to overcome to like a game. If the other NPCs are good, or there are other features of the story I like, I might still enjoy the game.

Take a game like Awakening. I played through it once to see what the story was like, and then another time because I never actually took a mage through it and am curious to see how that might impact DA2. But it was a tremendous chore, and if I didn't have the carrot of DA2 I would not have replayed the game.

But I strongly dislike (so far) the voiced PC games.  So this change has, apparently augmented your enjoyment (though you did already enjoy the games), while it has destroyed my enjoyment.

That seems to me a net negative change in utility.

But I don't anymore. The error in your reasoning is to assume my preferences did not change. Once PC VO was introduced, our tastes are now fundamenally at odds.

No, there's no upside there.  You could already enjoy DAO in this way.  The changes to companion customisation have added exactly zero features.  The only way you can be happy about this is if you're seeking suffering in others.

If malice is a feature you enjoy, that's good for you, but that's the only way I can see this actually making the game better for anyone.

That's a completely unfair characterization. First, it relies on the claim that we have not added feature. This begs the question, because it relies on your personal definition of what constitutes a feature.

Secondly, it presumes motive. One could simply not care whether one's taste impact others. This is different from being malicious.

Modifié par In Exile, 18 janvier 2011 - 04:20 .

[upsettingshorts]

eyesofastorm wrote...

When do you defend your thesis?

I think I've thoroughly bored the forum with it enough already

[eyesofastorm]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

eyesofastorm wrote...

Sylvius has been here for a REALLY long time.  Dude is as old and dedicated a Bioware fan as there is.

To be fair, there are older fans.  I didn't find BioWare until after the release of TotSC.

Hell I was playing BG a few weeks after release.  But the point was more about how long you've been "here" being all hardcore about your Bioware love.

[upsettingshorts]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Actually, I don't particularly care that you exist.  I mean, you're as welcome to play and enjoy the games as I am, but when they discard features I like - particularly without adding features that you like - I'm going to raise a hue and cry.

I was specifically thinking about a "what is an RPG" discussion a while back when I was genuinely surprised someone who plays like you existed and you seemed to return the favor.  The discussion involved Schroedinger's cat.

Not make any statement that we should empathize with or endorse the other's point of view when it comes to discussing features.

Edit: Adding strikethrough to the part I would like to point out I disagree with, but don't feel like arguing about.  In Exile is doing a good enough job anyway.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 18 janvier 2011 - 04:24 .

[In Exile]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
I think Bioware's implicit position on this issue is that good criticism of DA2 will be impossible - or at least, not useful - without playing it.

I mentioned this in other threads, but there are two lines of criticism for a project: creative and implementative.

We could debate, for example, the implementation of the paraphrase vis-a-vis localization. Xewaka brought up a pretty clear problem with how localization is handled that is outright stupid in terms of how the paraphrase is handled. A topic on this, with potential ideas might help developers.

On the other hand, there are threads like this that are essentially creative complaints - the direction of DA2 is not right. These are not criticisms that could ever impact the production of DA2 - these decisions have, of course, already been made. But most people do not even seen cognizant of this. The only person I know who is, actually, is Sylvius who does it precisely to advocate for changes in future titles.

Most criticisms about DA2 are about what it isn't, not how it's going to be.

edit: the tl;dr version is that I happen to think the creative complaints are only two steps above complaints that DA2 isn't a very advanced toaster, which is to say the most useless possible types of criticism.

If there was a way to send legitimate feedback to Bioware, I would. Sadly, I'm left talking about the features that did not work well in a game on the forums of the new game, since the current game forums have rather staunch defenders. About the only exception are the ME2 boards, where you have people who really like ME1, people who really like ME2, and both would rip your liver out if you criticize something consistent across both games.

Modifié par In Exile, 18 janvier 2011 - 04:29 .

[moilami]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

moilami wrote...

There is Third Faction too. I belong on it.

You must have missed my posts where I explicitly describe four relativley distinct factions and mention a vague, hard to define fifth.

Wow that was awesome classifications. You seem to have eye for forum personalities And yes, I belong on fifth. Single player RPGs has not really been my thing after my first multiplayer cRPGs. Novadays I though have changed and begun to play them in the name of academical interest. I have my hope on some spectacular MMORPG which would allow good PvE, PvP, and Guild vs Guild, and which would have very strong RP community and spirit.

[Sharn01]

My first bioware game was BG, released one month after I was discharged from the military which I picked up and played on my dads PC, having moved back in with my parents for almost a year while job hunting and house finding. I think their first game was Shattered Steel in 96? I didnt have acess to any PC at that time since I was in the middle east living in a tent. Do I qualify for old school?

[Blastback]

Okay, been skimming a bit, and I caught a post that said that Isabela will be locked in as a duel wield rogue, that we can't have her do anything else. This confirmed? We can't alter our companions from their set roles?

[Dhiro]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

eyesofastorm wrote...

When do you defend your thesis?

I think I've thoroughly bored the forum with it enough already

This!

[Sharn01]

Blastback wrote...

Okay, been skimming a bit, and I caught a post that said that Isabela will be locked in as a duel wield rogue, that we can't have her do anything else. This confirmed? We can't alter our companions from their set roles?

Its confirmed, she wont even switch to a bow when there would be no other way possible for her to even make an attack.  This is one of the features I do not support for the game, but oh well.  When I first heard they where removing archery from warriors for instance I figured it was no big deal, they could use a bow when they had no other choice but would want to jump in melee whenever possible, to find they cant even equip a bow is disheartening.

[upsettingshorts]

Dhiro wrote...

This!

*cancels Dhiro's preorder of Upsettingshorts Age: The Never Happening*

Whoops!

[eyesofastorm]

Sharn01 wrote...

My first bioware game was BG, released one month after I was discharged from the military which I picked up and played on my dads PC, having moved back in with my parents for almost a year while job hunting and house finding. I think their first game was Shattered Steel in 96? I didnt have acess to any PC at that time since I was in the middle east living in a tent. Do I qualify for old school?

Your cookie is in the oven and baking as we speak.  

Blastback wrote...

Okay, been skimming a bit, and I caught a post that said that Isabela will be locked in as a duel wield rogue, that we can't have her do anything else. This confirmed? We can't alter our companions from their set roles?

Wait... you skimmed that from this thread?  Really?  The answer to your question is yes.  In fact, Bioware is debating whether they should turn control of your inventory and leveling to Isabella.  (Not really.)

[Dhiro]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

This!

*cancels Dhiro's preorder of Upsettingshorts Age: The Never Happening*

Whoops!

Oh yeah? Well, I will make a game full of awesomness and I won't let YOU play it!

Let's go, Sylvius. Humph!

[In Exile]

Sharn01 wrote...
Its confirmed, she wont even switch to a bow when there would be no other way possible for her to even make an attack.

Melee characters have a homing rush, though, so they can effectively close on a target automatically once you reach a set distance from them. It isn't a ranged attack per se, but it they do effectively avoid arrow fire after a distance.

[In Exile]

eyesofastorm wrote...
Wait... you skimmed that from this thread?  Really?  The answer to your question is yes.  In fact, Bioware is debating whether they should turn control of your inventory and leveling to Isabella.  (Not really.)

Don't mislead the poor man. This is only because Hawke's mom is the one in charge of dressing the party. Her roof, her rules, after all.

[moilami]

Sharn01 wrote...

My first bioware game was BG, released one month after I was discharged from the military which I picked up and played on my dads PC, having moved back in with my parents for almost a year while job hunting and house finding. I think their first game was Shattered Steel in 96? I didnt have acess to any PC at that time since I was in the middle east living in a tent. Do I qualify for old school?

My first Bioware was BG too. But my first cRPG, hmm, that is very tough call. Something in C64, but what? No idea.

I don't really think you qualify for Old school xD No pun intended. Just my opinion, and it doesn't make you a bit worse person. Unless of course you have played C64, Apple II, and Amiga/Atari RPGs too.

[Sharn01]

moilami wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

My first bioware game was BG, released one month after I was discharged from the military which I picked up and played on my dads PC, having moved back in with my parents for almost a year while job hunting and house finding. I think their first game was Shattered Steel in 96? I didnt have acess to any PC at that time since I was in the middle east living in a tent. Do I qualify for old school?

My first Bioware was BG too. But my first cRPG, hmm, that is very tough call. Something in C64, but what? No idea.

I don't really think you qualify for Old school xD No pun intended. Just my opinion, and it doesn't make you a bit worse person. Unless of course you have played C64, Apple II, and Amiga/Atari RPGs too.

Heh, i dont even remember my first PC game, some kind of space invaders esque game for I think the apple IIe.
Most of my gaming back then was on atari, and when the 2600 came out, woo, talk about high tech.

[Blastback]

Sharn01 wrote...

Blastback wrote...

Okay, been skimming a bit, and I caught a post that said that Isabela will be locked in as a duel wield rogue, that we can't have her do anything else. This confirmed? We can't alter our companions from their set roles?

Its confirmed, she wont even switch to a bow when there would be no other way possible for her to even make an attack.  This is one of the features I do not support for the game, but oh well.  When I first heard they where removing archery from warriors for instance I figured it was no big deal, they could use a bow when they had no other choice but would want to jump in melee whenever possible, to find they cant even equip a bow is disheartening.

Damnit.....

Seems like they are focusing solely on progression, rather than customasation. A "yeah, you can level up, along the pre assigned paths we created" instead of were you want to take the charaters approach. 

The problem for me, is that Bioware had always struck the perfect balance in the past between having charaters with set identies and letting players have a degree of customisation.  Same with the PC's identity.  And it seems like they are moving away from that with both.

[mr_nameless]

It's called THE pigeon holing and hand holding bandwagon. The future of games. Live with it or start a revolution.

[moilami]

In Exile wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...
Its confirmed, she wont even switch to a bow when there would be no other way possible for her to even make an attack.

Melee characters have a homing rush, though, so they can effectively close on a target automatically once you reach a set distance from them. It isn't a ranged attack per se, but it they do effectively avoid arrow fire after a distance.

What? Now it seems I don't want to hear of this DA2 anymore. Full party doing lethal ranged surprise attack in the woods is history.

Anyone wanting to buy Signature Edition of DA2?

[eyesofastorm]

Blastback wrote...

Sharn01 wrote...

Blastback wrote...

Okay, been skimming a bit, and I caught a post that said that Isabela will be locked in as a duel wield rogue, that we can't have her do anything else. This confirmed? We can't alter our companions from their set roles?

Its confirmed, she wont even switch to a bow when there would be no other way possible for her to even make an attack.  This is one of the features I do not support for the game, but oh well.  When I first heard they where removing archery from warriors for instance I figured it was no big deal, they could use a bow when they had no other choice but would want to jump in melee whenever possible, to find they cant even equip a bow is disheartening.

Damnit.....

Seems like they are focusing solely on progression, rather than customasation. A "yeah, you can level up, along the pre assigned paths we created" instead of were you want to take the charaters approach. 

The problem for me, is that Bioware had always struck the perfect balance in the past between having charaters with set identies and letting players have a degree of customisation.  Same with the PC's identity.  And it seems like they are moving away from that with both.

Vote with your wallet friend.  Remember, even if the changes you don't like are only incremental, one day you will wake up and Bioware will be trying to sell you a FPS, you won't remember where you've been for the last 24 hours, you'll be lying in a tub full of ice water, and your bum will be sore and you'll be wondering how you got there.  Don't support incremental changes else you'll be in a world of hurt one day... trust me.  Just sayin'.

Modifié par eyesofastorm, 18 janvier 2011 - 04:52 .

[mr_nameless]

Actually now big developers are becoming the Starbucks of gaming. Look hard enough in the independent sector and you've got some great games being made.

Bioware, you stud. lol.

[Jimmy Fury]

----9----- wrote...

I don't see a short term solution to claiming ownership of the game. However...

Besides buying BioWare games, make sure you buy EA stock–lots of it.

Once enough stock has been purchased, form a fan-based co-operative and elect a governing executive. (Given how fans don't always agree, this may take a while, but persist.)

Once you have the governing executive, plan a takeover. (Given how fans don't always agree, this may take a while, but persist.)

Once you have succeeded in the takeover revolution, you can suggest force BioWare to make design changes. (Given how fans don't always agree, this may take a while, but persist.)

Eventually, we'll all have a game that no fan could possibly complain about. (Given how fans don't always agree, this may take a while, but persist.) 

*("a while" = 20-30 years minimum.)