1044 réponses à ce sujet

[moilami]

Ryzaki wrote...

I'm inclined to believe Isabela's an intelligent enough woman to be well versed in a multitude of weapons because you ever know when you'll have to use something on hand. Especially on a ship that can crash and leave you with nothing but the clothes on your back on a hostile environment.

Unless of course she is really shortsighted and arrogant.

One would wonder how she managd to live so long in that case.

Hmmmm, I would not call Isabella arrogant and shortsighted. She is just a little bit silly and naive. And I will have tons of fun with her especially when I teach her from behind hands-on how to hold a bow and what to do with an arrow

(You know how her boobs will take increased pose as she tries to pull the bow string. And maybe she is arrogant and shortsighted, but so what?)

Modifié par moilami, 19 janvier 2011 - 06:52 .

[tmp7704]

Beerfish wrote...

Your argument seems to be that you have to allow total customization or none at all.

My argument is the customization granted to the player happens outside of the game world, and is done by the player not their PC. As such, trying to invent logical reasons based on in-game circumstances why the out-of-game entity should be allowed to customize certain areas of their companions but not others is quite pointless and doomed to failure.

[Blastback]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Blastback wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

We grew up with that in BG? D&D classes are quite defined, and I'm pretty sure they expected you to dual Imoen to mage from the start.

But you could use Imoen in both melee and ranged as a thief.  And take Keldorn.  Meant to use two handed swords.  But i could equip him with a crossbow, a halbred, even mace and shield. 

All of which, just doesn't make sense from a character point of view. BioWare has made away with that "feature" (I hardly think it even qualified as a feature to begin with), in favor of more identified characters.

I get the reasoning, but that doesn't mean I have to like or agree with it.  It's a feature i liked and will miss.  I don't think that Bioware's characters need to be limited to certian weapons to strengthend their identiy. 

[Melness]

Beerfish wrote...As such, trying to invent logical reasons based on in-game circumstances why the out-of-game entity should be allowed to customize certain areas of their companions but not others is quite pointless and doomed to failure.

In-game circumstance: Isabela is Rivaini.

Out-of-the-game entity: I want her to be chinese.

In-game circumstance: There are no chinese nations in the current Thedas and Rivaini certainly isn't one.

/ignore.

Isabela is Chinese!

I don't think that Bioware's characters need to be limited to certian weapons to strengthend their identiy.

Fortunately for me then, Bioware disagrees. I for one think that if a character is built around a set of ideals, we, the players, shouldn't be able to completely go against that on a whim. Its unecessary because what you seek to achieve with Isabela can be done potentially better with other characters.

Modifié par Melness, 19 janvier 2011 - 06:55 .

[Xewaka]

AlanC9 wrote...
If you mean that D&D had different class restrictions from DA2, sure. But it was quite restricted in its own way.

But the restrictions were applied consistently across all characters. DA 2 is inconsistent in its restrictions. Why can rogue "a" wield a certain type of weapon that rogue "b" can't and viceversa? Aren't both the same class? Why the arbitrary and inconsistent restriction compared to rogue "c" that can wield both?
A gaming system, any gaming system, must have a consistent set of game rules. Arbitrary restrictions that have no gameplay reason are not healthy for a game system.

Modifié par Xewaka, 19 janvier 2011 - 06:56 .

[Ryzaki]

moilami wrote...

Hmmmm, I would not call Isabella arrogant and shortsighted. She is just a little bit silly and naive. And I will have tons of fun with her especially when I teach her from behind hands-on how to hold a bow and what to do with an arrow

(You know how her boobs will take increased pose as she tries to pull the bow string. And maybe she is arrogant and shortsighted, but so what?)

Naive? 

Then she's a fool. I don't respect fools.

[tmp7704]

AlanC9 wrote...

Except now it's now the writer's interpretation that governs the character

Except how much of that is an actual writer's interpretation of the characters, as opposed to characters getting universally shoehorned into the "one weapon spec per companion" design decision... no matter if that happens to fit the mindset of given companion or not?

[moilami]

Ryzaki wrote...

moilami wrote...

Hmmmm, I would not call Isabella arrogant and shortsighted. She is just a little bit silly and naive. And I will have tons of fun with her especially when I teach her from behind hands-on how to hold a bow and what to do with an arrow

(You know how her boobs will take increased pose as she tries to pull the bow string. And maybe she is arrogant and shortsighted, but so what?)

Naive? 

Then she's a fool. I don't respect fools.

Well...I only see myself correcting her posture with bow by touching and pressing her from here and there


Edit: Imagine too how you would have to teach her to spread her legs a little while shooting with a bow *romance triggered* Isabella is FINE without bows! xD

Modifié par moilami, 19 janvier 2011 - 07:00 .

[Addai]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I really just don't see why you want her to equip a bow, ever. She can probably handle any situation with her knives, and yet, out of some form of vanity from your side, you want her to gimp herself.

How about some situations calling for a ranged attack?  How is that vanity?

Because there are other party members who DO specialize in ranged attacks, yet you try and force one the party members who don't, to gimp herself.

If the gameplay makes it possible, then that means the character can learn the skill, so there's no "gimping" involved.  Say an enemy is out of range of her daggers.  Not having any ranged attack at all, no matter how weak, is a much bigger gimp.

[Addai]

moilami wrote...
Well...I only see myself correcting her posture with bow by touching and pressing her from here and there


Edit: Imagine too how you would have to teach her to spread her legs a little while shooting with a bow *romance triggered* Isabella is FINE without bows! xD

Get a room.

[tmp7704]

Melness wrote...

In-game circumstance: Isabela is Rivaini.

Out-of-the-game entity: I want her to be chinese.

In-game circumstance: There are no chinese nations in the current Thedas and Rivaini certainly isn't one.

/ignore.

Isabela is Chinese!

This seems to totally miss the point. Like, it's complete opposite of it. The process i'm talking of is more like:

* game limitation: not possible to make character with asian rather than caucasian features.
* ad-hoc in-game "logical justification" from a random forum goer: it's because only caucasian features are present in Thedas.
* developer: actually it's because we didn't make character morphs which would allow that, it's extra work we couldn't afford.

[moilami]

Addai67 wrote...

moilami wrote...
Well...I only see myself correcting her posture with bow by touching and pressing her from here and there


Edit: Imagine too how you would have to teach her to spread her legs a little while shooting with a bow *romance triggered* Isabella is FINE without bows! xD

Get a room.

No! It is my game. And outdoors at times is as good as any xD

[Il Divo]

tmp7704 wrote...

Except how much of that is an actual writer's interpretation of the characters, as opposed to characters getting universally shoehorned into the "one weapon spec per companion" design decision... no matter if that happens to fit the mindset of given companion or not?

Quite a bit of it is writer interpretation. The problem is not that the writers are going the "one companion, one weapon style" approach. The problem (from a narrative perspective) is that they are doing this across the board for all characters. In DnD, you'll find some people who play characters who rely on a single weapon to the exclusion of all others. You'll also find characters who prefer a variety, including ranged attacks. These aspects come to impact their personalities as well (Gimli and his axe in LoTR, for example). The problem isn't that Isabella can only use one style, but why must every companion be limited to one style?  

[Erode_The_Soul]

This has been a very interesting discussion thus far, as per usual with conversations started by Sylvius, but I'd like to chime in here and just add my thoughts on the matter.

Yes, in real life, it takes years to master a bow. You know where it doesn't take years to master a bow? A video game. And advocates for having Isabella weild a bow aren't even asking for mastery, but competency, which likely takes even less time than mastery in the world of the video game.

To me, a rogue having no knowledge of how to weild a ranged weapon is very strange. But, I've always RP'd rogues as being prepared for any combat situation. In my opinion, having Isabella learn archery wouldn't be "gimping" her, as some of you suggest, but rather better preparing her for combat situations that require more than "stab until dead." I may always have an archer or ranged fighter with me, but that doesn't always mean Isabella will, and it just seems like common sense for a rogue-class character to be at least competent enough to wield a bow if a situation demands it.

If Isabella wants to be stubborn about it, that's fine. She seems like the type that would be, in my opinion. But her overreliance on her daggers just makes her seem unprepared. I have a feeling that LadyHawke will be annoyed by her stubborness but I could be wrong.

Honestly, though, this isn't a big deal for me and I can accept Bioware's "because we said so" explanation as to why characters are limited in this way. It just makes more sense to me that they would not have this limitation.

Modifié par Erode_The_Soul, 19 janvier 2011 - 07:21 .

[Il Divo]

If I know Bioware, they will give the fans/Hawke the opportunity to call Isabella out on this at some point in game. There's been too many topics/discussions about this for it not to happen.

[PrinceOfFallout13]

isabela range attack is throwing daggers she throws daggers in the rise to power video now will it be in game? problably not is it on cutscenes? yes that means that canon wise she throws daggers for range attacks

[EmperorSahlertz]

PrinceOfFallout13 wrote...

isabela range attack is throwing daggers she throws daggers in the rise to power video now will it be in game? problably not is it on cutscenes? yes that means that canon wise she throws daggers for range attacks

I previously tried to point this out. Apparently that is just not good enough.

[tmp7704]

Erode_The_Soul wrote...

In my opinion, having Isabella learn archery wouldn't be "gimping" her, as some of you suggest, but rather better preparing her for combat situations that require more than "stab until dead."

You could in fact make a point how pirates in Thedas out of all people could be quite interested in learning how to shoot people from range -- in the world mostly devoid of cannons that's one way to thin down the crew of ship you intend to board...

[moilami]

Erode_The_Soul wrote...

Yes, in real life, it takes years to master a bow. You know where it doesn't take years to master a bow? A video game. And advocates for having Isabella weild a bow aren't even asking for mastery, but competency, which likely takes even less time than mastery in the world of the video game.

Exactly, I was though not even asking for competency but lets say ability to shoot at a door from 20 meters, which is nothing.

What I never asked is some kind of Olympics quality archer shooting to the centre from 70 meters arrow after arrow. That would require years of practise* and by then she would be dedicated archer.

I have a compound bow myself, have had it about 13 years, and in my childhood I crafted bows myself as well as used bows crafted to me and bows given to me or bows I bought. A bow is very simple and easy to use weapon. Sling for example is much harder to use, even though it is even more simple than a bow.

But as I said before, I prefer Isaballe has no clue how to use a bows. Not even crossbows. That is however a little bit gross, so I am thinking should I RP that Hawker has heard of the Warden and Morrigan and of Morri's plot and is therefore suspicious is Isabella just trying to get a baby from him xD So far I think it could make sense, so the actual question would be would my character care what Isabella is plotting. At the moment I can't invent any reasons why he should care xD




*And DAMN good nerves! I can't imagine Isabella having even close nerves, concentration ability, and self control needed.

Modifié par moilami, 19 janvier 2011 - 07:34 .

[Addai]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

PrinceOfFallout13 wrote...

isabela range attack is throwing daggers she throws daggers in the rise to power video now will it be in game? problably not is it on cutscenes? yes that means that canon wise she throws daggers for range attacks

I previously tried to point this out. Apparently that is just not good enough.

She can't possibly throw a dagger as far as a bow can shoot.  I mean, if she does that in-game that's total bull****.

[Ryzaki]

Addai67 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

PrinceOfFallout13 wrote...

isabela range attack is throwing daggers she throws daggers in the rise to power video now will it be in game? problably not is it on cutscenes? yes that means that canon wise she throws daggers for range attacks

I previously tried to point this out. Apparently that is just not good enough.

She can't possibly throw a dagger as far as a bow can shoot.  I mean, if she does that in-game that's total bull****.

Nah that's some Final Fantasy s***.

Only JRPGs (and anime/manga) have people throwing daggers and **** over miles.

[TheCreeper]

Addai67 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

PrinceOfFallout13 wrote...

isabela range attack is throwing daggers she throws daggers in the rise to power video now will it be in game? problably not is it on cutscenes? yes that means that canon wise she throws daggers for range attacks

I previously tried to point this out. Apparently that is just not good enough.

She can't possibly throw a dagger as far as a bow can shoot.  I mean, if she does that in-game that's total bull****.

She could probably throw a Soulrot bomb pretty darn far.

[tmp7704]

TheCreeper wrote...

She could probably throw kick a Soulrot bomb pretty darn far.

Fixed. Throwing explosives contained in easily shattering flasks just ain't cool enough for DA2 rogues.

[moilami]

TheCreeper wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

PrinceOfFallout13 wrote...

isabela range attack is throwing daggers she throws daggers in the rise to power video now will it be in game? problably not is it on cutscenes? yes that means that canon wise she throws daggers for range attacks

I previously tried to point this out. Apparently that is just not good enough.

She can't possibly throw a dagger as far as a bow can shoot.  I mean, if she does that in-game that's total bull****.

She could probably throw a Soulrot bomb pretty darn far.

What? Lol.