1044 réponses à ce sujet

[Few87]

Yeah I did really enjoy mass effect 1 and 2. They are awesome but keep some variation. I also loved Dragon Age for different reasons.

[LdyShayna]

Few87 wrote...
 If this game tanks then maybe they will realise that not everyone wants mass effect in a different guise. Youve already got that game and Dragon Age was a different type that a different kind of player enjoyed. But if this tanks then it probably wont help, they will just change dragon age to an iPhone only game because hey thats casual action super cool isnt it!?

Well, if you believe that you can never get the game you want regardless if DA2 is successful or not, it sorta leaves it down to pettiness as to hoping it will fail.  If you have little hope that something good will come out of something bad, then it is just hoping they will be punished for not providing what you want.

I like to hold on to my slim hope that if BioWare survives to continue to make games (for which success in their offerings is required), maybe one out of three will be something I really want -  but that's one more game that I will want that I didn't have available before.  That's a better chance than if they're not making games at all.

Modifié par LdyShayna, 21 janvier 2011 - 04:54 .

[AYCK-Xlive]

Sorry if my post sounds dumb... i didn't read through all 40 pages of the posts, just the first 4 or 5 pages and this last (40th) page.
Essentially... when one wishes to, everything can be critically analysed as a system... and every system has downfalls. [Note "downfalls" / "Shortcomings" interchangeable.] [Murphy's Law optional.] Whether acceptable or not depends on expectations.
In addition, in the case of a system, whether it is successful or not is determined by the suitability of the product compared to agenda.
We as gamers did not specify the agenda. as a consumer of the product I only reflect the shortcomings that personally felt the product proved inadequate compared to my expectation.
Anyhow. I'll wait till i have my hands on the game before i decide on this. Thank you for showing me what the glass looks like half empty in half an hour.
Well.... thats all i have on the matter.
*Edit - English fail

Modifié par AYCK-Xlive, 21 janvier 2011 - 04:50 .

[The Elder King]

Just to know, except the VO and the outfit, what are the features DA2 took from ME2 (considering the fact that we haven't play the game yet)?

Plus, you have to call him Dragon Effect, and not Dragon Effect 2, because in you opinion is a new IP XD.

[Dubya75]

Getting back to the title of this thread "Who's game is it?":
Well, let's see...If you buy a copy, then it's YOURS!

Sorry folks, I should have mentioned this sooner.

Modifié par Dubya75, 21 janvier 2011 - 04:54 .

[Zannana]

I really like how people predetermine their likes/dislikes without having the actual experience. You cant judge something without having experienced it. First play the game, from start to finish and then judge if it was worth it or not. You cant judge a book by it's cover or by the summary, believe me I have learned from experience.



Some of the changes I heard would be implemented in DA2 made me a bit hesitant for the end result but with mature thinking I have realised that those changes have potential as far as the game and it's storytelling goes. They make sense. Now, I may be mistaken, I may be disappointed (or not) in the end but I will state my opinion (favourable or not) after having played the game in its entirety.



As for the main question of this thread...The reason this is our game should be obvious = the fact that the developers are here in this forum listening to us and answering our questions. They will not take everything we say into consideration but even a percentage is good for me. It shows they care for us and that they love what they do.

[In Exile]

Few87 wrote...

Yeah I did really enjoy mass effect 1 and 2. They are awesome but keep some variation. I also loved Dragon Age for different reasons.

I can appreciate you disliking the fact that DA:O changed. But if you think DA:O is more like ME2, and you enjoyed ME2... not buying the game seems to be pure spite.

[LdyShayna]

Zannana wrote...

I really like how people predetermine their likes/dislikes without having the actual experience. You cant judge something without having experienced it. First play the game, from start to finish and then judge if it was worth it or not. You cant judge a book by it's cover or by the summary, believe me I have learned from experience.

Actually, I view this as a catch 22.  I have to buy it before I can say anything, but if I buy it regardless, why would they care?  

I decided after Mass Effect 1 that I had no interest in Mass Effect 2.  How much do you think they will value my views on what I would want to see from Mass Effect 3 that would get me interested?  I'm thinking none at all.

If I buy Dragon Age 2 regardless of how strongly I'm am utterly, utterly against full PC voice over, why in Heaven's Name should they care if I say yet again that I don't like it AFTER I buy it?  After all, I bought DA2 regardless, so why should they care?  Oh noes!  She said she might not buy it just like she said last time!  

I have to deal with everyone saying what is popular and sells to everyone else, and I just have to deal with what the majority want.  They have to follow the money, right?  Well, it does work the other way around, too.   If I can't speak with my wallet, exactly what leverage do I have?

I haven't decided either way yet, but I do rather  resent the idea that I MUST hand over money in order to have any say at all.

EDIT:  Also what Xewaka said.  People decide whether or not things are worth buying all of the time.  Games are no exception.

Modifié par LdyShayna, 21 janvier 2011 - 05:15 .

[Xewaka]

Zannana wrote...
I really like how people predetermine their likes/dislikes without having the actual experience. You cant judge something without having experienced it. First play the game, from start to finish and then judge if it was worth it or not. You cant judge a book by it's cover or by the summary, believe me I have learned from experience.

Actually, yes, you can. More, you should have an estimated guess the appeal of something before buying. By way of reviews, former customer appreciations, gameplay videos... It would be irresponsible to purchase a product without having first done your reseach about the subject.

[In Exile]

Xewaka wrote...
Actually, yes, you can. More, you should have an estimated guess the appeal of something before buying. By way of reviews, former customer appreciations, gameplay videos... It would be irresponsible to purchase a product without having first done your reseach about the subject.

You can form a reasonable opinion, but that isn't per se indicative of having a good idea what the product is.

With a feature like PC VO, though, we can clearly judge that because we have experienced it before. That's something that gets lots in the shuffle. There are things DA2 is bringing to the table that are new... but we can judge their implementation of older features and form reasoned opinions based on that alone.

[In Exile]

LdyShayna wrote...
If I buy Dragon Age 2 regardless of how strongly I'm am utterly, utterly against full PC voice over, why in Heaven's Name should they care if I say yet again that I don't like it AFTER I buy it?  After all, I bought DA2 regardless, so why should they care?  Oh noes!  She said she might not buy it just like she said last time!  

Of course, the problem is that even if they want to attract you, they'd have to reason why you bought the game.

For example, you might not want it because it feels too much like an action RPG, whereas they might decide you didn't buy it because it isn't enough like an action RPG.

I have to deal with everyone saying what is popular and sells to everyone else, and I just have to deal with what the majority want.  They have to follow the money, right?  Well, it does work the other way around, too.   If I can't speak with my wallet, exactly what leverage do I have?

The thing is, consumers can never speak with their wallet per se. It's basically: producers make something and consumers evaluate, and if it doesn't work out they have to stand pat until there is another product to evaluate. Producers try to bring in popular features by seeing what worked in the past... but it's all a guessing game.

I haven't decided either way yet, but I do rather  resent the idea that I MUST hand over money in order to have any say at all.

To be fair, requests for content and feedback are not the same thing.

i.e. I might want turn based combat like in heroes of might and magic, but  I can't judge the rivalry system until I see it.

[LdyShayna]

In Exile wrote...
Of course, the problem is that even if they want to attract you, they'd have to reason why you bought the game.

For example, you might not want it because it feels too much like an action RPG, whereas they might decide you didn't buy it because it isn't enough like an action RPG.

I'm a fairly shy person in general, but I think I haven't been too shy about my feedback to them.

However!  In case anyone at BioWare didn't get the memo - if I don't buy DA2, it will be almost entirely because I despise PC voice over.  Utterly.  Despise.  I would say with the heat of a thousand suns, but do you know how hot suns are?  I'll stick with the one.  With the heat of an entire sun!

I would go into details, but I did that already many, manymoons ago.  Poor dead horsies.

The thing is, consumers can never speak with their wallet per se. It's basically: producers make something and consumers evaluate, and if it doesn't work out they have to stand pat until there is another product to evaluate. Producers try to bring in popular features by seeing what worked in the past... but it's all a guessing game.

I feel I have a pretty firm grasp on what they're doing with the dialog wheel/PC voice over, what they think it brings to the table, and how it will play out (yes, even in contrast to what they did with Mass Effect).   So,  I have feedback as to their decision to do this.  I have even stronger feedback if that's what they plan to do from now on. 

I do find it rather difficult to believe that they will take me seriously if I do not put my money where my mouth is, however. 

[Xewaka]

In Exile wrote...

Xewaka wrote...
Actually, yes, you can. More, you should have an estimated guess the appeal of something before buying. By way of reviews, former customer appreciations, gameplay videos... It would be irresponsible to purchase a product without having first done your reseach about the subject.

You can form a reasonable opinion, but that isn't per se indicative of having a good idea what the product is.
With a feature like PC VO, though, we can clearly judge that because we have experienced it before. That's something that gets lots in the shuffle. There are things DA2 is bringing to the table that are new... but we can judge their implementation of older features and form reasoned opinions based on that alone.

A reasonable opinion is an informed opinion. Therefore, you need to have a good idea on what the product is to make a reasonable opinion. Since we don't have the full information on the product (as it isn't out yet), my opinion on DA 2 is on a case-by-case basis. I decided to preorder because of three reasons: The pros so far overweight the cons (barely, but they do); I can cancel on resell my Signature Edition if reviews on release make my opinion sway, and I'm a sucker for collector editions.

[Zannana]

Xewaka wrote...

Zannana wrote...
I really like how people predetermine their likes/dislikes without having the actual experience. You cant judge something without having experienced it. First play the game, from start to finish and then judge if it was worth it or not. You cant judge a book by it's cover or by the summary, believe me I have learned from experience.

Actually, yes, you can. More, you should have an estimated guess the appeal of something before buying. By way of reviews, former customer appreciations, gameplay videos... It would be irresponsible to purchase a product without having first done your reseach about the subject.

Thing is...reviews may  clue you in for things like bugs in the game but cant tell you how you will like it. I have rarely (if ever) agreed with a reviewer, usually our opinions on anything differ greatly.

To play the game, unless I am utterly wrong, you can rent it can you not? Sure you pay money but you also get a first hand opinion about it's content.

PS: Irresponsible is a word that should be used for something with great significance.Here we are talking about a game, entertainment. Irresponsible is leaving your toddler near the stove...

Modifié par Zannana, 21 janvier 2011 - 05:49 .

[In Exile]

LdyShayna wrote...
I'm a fairly shy person in general, but I think I haven't been too shy about my feedback to them.

However!  In case anyone at BioWare didn't get the memo - if I don't buy DA2, it will be almost entirely because I despise PC voice over.  Utterly.  Despise.  I would say with the heat of a thousand suns, but do you know how hot suns are?  I'll stick with the one.  With the heat of an entire sun!

I would go into details, but I did that already many, manymoons ago.  Poor dead horsies.

I should have clarified. I know you dislike PC VO and that makes/breaks the game for you.

I meant, rather, that in terms of the general "you" (i.e. any one consumer) it really is unreasonable and unlikely to actually expect Bioware to be able to infer preference. Basically, it's hard form them to know the real reason people are skipping out on their games.

I feel I have a pretty firm grasp on what they're doing with the dialog wheel/PC voice over, what they think it brings to the table, and how it will play out (yes, even in contrast to what they did with Mass Effect).   So,  I have feedback as to their decision to do this.  I have even stronger feedback if that's what they plan to do from now on. 

I do find it rather difficult to believe that they will take me seriously if I do not put my money where my mouth is, however. 

Not feedback for you - feedback for them. You can know why the feature is not something you like, and you ought to not purchase the game because of it.

But when Bioware sits down and asks "What impacted the success of DA2?" your individual preference gets lost in the chaff and Bioware has to make market level decisions about the preferences of players that aren't giving them feedback.

If they make DA3, it will be based on what they think the market wants, not what the market actually wants.

Xewaka wrote...
A reasonable opinion is an informed opinion.
Therefore, you need to have a good idea on what the product is to make a
reasonable opinion. Since we don't have the full information on the
product (as it isn't out yet), my opinion on DA 2 is on a case-by-case
basis. I decided to preorder because of three reasons: The pros so far
overweight the cons (barely, but they do); I can cancel on resell my
Signature Edition if reviews on release make my opinion sway, and I'm a
sucker for collector editions.

This is were I disagree. You need to think you do, but that isn't the same as doing so.

Essentially, it is possible to believe you have evaluated the ins and outs of a game prior to release such that you know you want/don't want the game (maybe there is a dealbreaker feature for you, like the fact it is an MMO) but that isn't the same as being able to evaluate all of this features.

You mentioned before you were a scientist. To use an analogy, it is basically the diference between prediction and actually carrying out the experiment in academic research. Theory may well say one thing, but we will need to actually run the experiment to draw any meaningful conclusion.

[LdyShayna]

In Exile wrote...

I should have clarified. I know you dislike PC VO and that makes/breaks the game for you.

I know!  But the opening!  It was there!

I must secretly truly want to beat that poor dead horse.  Gah!

I meant, rather, that in terms of the general "you" (i.e. any one consumer) it really is unreasonable and unlikely to actually expect Bioware to be able to infer preference. Basically, it's hard form them to know the real reason people are skipping out on their games.

I know.  I find this depressing, since my wants and desires (as far as games go) don't apear to be especially widespread.  It's why I keep coming back to jabber on about things I don't really expect to change. 

Irrational, really.

Blah.  Well. 

Enough from me until release, I imagine. 

Modifié par LdyShayna, 21 janvier 2011 - 05:58 .

[Nial Black-Knee]

Im not sure how much I'll enjoy this new Bioware offering.



But I am sure it IS more restrictive for the player in many ways. To say otherwise is not only wrong, but foolish.



As for the NPC armor/ clothes. This is something many people complained about in ME2.

Personaly, I see it as just another way to make money. Within a couple months you'll be able to buy new outfits online. ( just like ME2, Great, thanks for that. )



They restricted the class weapon system, even more than it already was. And then broke their own rules by restricting Isabella's weapon choice even further.



They choose your race for you.



I have to say, DA is becoming ME with dragons and swords. Don't get me wrong, I like ME. But as ME has moved farther and farther away from being an RPG, towards being an adventure story. So too it seems DA is moving farther towards where ME started out. Which was already RPG lite.



So we'll just have to see where we go from here. If it moves too far down that road. I won't need to be told by all the little BW sycophants that Im not welcome here anymore, or my old timer views are worthless. I'll just stop buying their games and move on. Cheers.

[Night Prowler76]

David Gaider wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...
I really hope this game goes down as a huge failure.

Huh.

Not wanting to buy a game because it's not for you is one thing, but wishing failure on us (as some kind of lesson, I suppose?) seems a little... petty.

Just had to throw that out there, amidst all the customary pedantism. Carry on.

Mike

You are right, and I apologize for that, Im just one of many customers frustrated with how much the game has been changed. Most of the people I know in real life share that same thought and are not buying the game for that reason, and the only reason anyone wants this game not to do well is because we were all looking forward to another classic RPG game by you guys, but obviously that is not the direction of this game and thats fine.

@Whomever thinks I am buying this game to see if I like it, you are sadly misinformed, Im not buying it unless it gets atleast a 9 out of 10 average by most reputable reviews, thanks. This forum is for feedback, and we are giving feedback on the little information and actual gameplay footage we have seen, not everyone thinks that this game is great etc.

Modifié par Night Prowler76, 21 janvier 2011 - 06:13 .

[the_one_54321]

LdyShayna wrote...
I find this depressing, since my wants and desires (as far as games go) don't apear to be especially widespread.  It's why I keep coming back to jabber on about things I don't really expect to change.

Actually I, and many others, would be perfectly fine with them making a game exactly as you wish it to be. Heck, I might even enjoy a game with the kind of character applications that Sylvius wants. The difference is that many of us are also perfectly happy with the idea of the game being not like that at all.

[Night Prowler76]

Beerfish wrote...

Few87 wrote...

It isnt really petty to hope this game goes down as a failure. It would be good for the industry for it to be shown that not all games need to be super casual action extreme. I mean why change Dragon Age into Mass Effect? (Which as we all know is what has happend) Purely because they think this will sell better as more casual action players will like it. They will go on about oh no this is the direction we wanted. NONSENSE you just want quick easy money. You are sell outs in the strongest sense of the word. If this game tanks then maybe they will realise that not everyone wants mass effect in a different guise. Youve already got that game and Dragon Age was a different type that a different kind of player enjoyed. But if this tanks then it probably wont help, they will just change dragon age to an iPhone only game because hey thats casual action super cool isnt it!?

Dumb post.  You also will buy the game for the same reasons I listed in my previous post.

Quit being a fanboy, dont assume that people will buy the game if it looks crappy, sorry you cannot comprehend that, and name calling is quite childish.

[Xewaka]

In Exile wrote...
This is were I disagree. You need to think you do, but that isn't the same as doing so.
Essentially, it is possible to believe you have evaluated the ins and outs of a game prior to release such that you know you want/don't want the game (maybe there is a dealbreaker feature for you, like the fact it is an MMO) but that isn't the same as being able to evaluate all of this features.
You mentioned before you were a scientist. To use an analogy, it is basically the diference between prediction and actually carrying out the experiment in academic research. Theory may well say one thing, but we will need to actually run the experiment to draw any meaningful conclusion.

Fair enough. However, if you allow me to expand in your analogy, in order to receive a grant for carrying on the experiment, the theory has to be sound enough to convince the funding parties. That is, you must already have enough information on what you're getting into before deciding if it's wroth your money.

Modifié par Xewaka, 21 janvier 2011 - 06:20 .

[In Exile]

Xewaka wrote...

Fair enough. However, if you allow me to expand in your analogy, in order to receive a grant for carrying on the experiment, the theory has to be sound enough to convince the funding parties.

You're right. I don't want to overstate that we're somehow in-the-dark about a game. I just think there is a qualitative difference between playing a game and developing an opiniona about it pre-release.

[LdyShayna]

the_one_54321 wrote...
Actually I, and many others, would be perfectly fine with them making a game exactly as you wish it to be. Heck, I might even enjoy a game with the kind of character applications that Sylvius wants. The difference is that many of us are also perfectly happy with the idea of the game being not like that at all.

I don't mind them making games that's not for me.  99% of the games being made are like that.  What I wonder is, if other people do like what I want,  why is what I want being completely eliminated from the market?

[the_one_54321]

In Exile wrote...
You're right. I don't want to overstate that we're somehow in-the-dark about a game. I just think there is a qualitative difference between playing a game and developing an opiniona about it pre-release.

The opinion developed pre-relsease is often a larger factor in the decision to buy than than having actually played the game.

[the_one_54321]

LdyShayna wrote...
I don't mind them making games that's not for me.  99% of the games being made are like that.  What I wonder is, if other people do like what I want,  why is what I want being completely eliminated from the market?

I certainly can't answer that question. The only thought that comes to mind is that developers that strike it successful are invariably then going after the bigger fish. I don't know that this is the correct answer or the only correct answer. It's just the only thing I can think of.