1044 réponses à ce sujet

[Night Prowler76]

the_one_54321 wrote...

In Exile wrote...
You're right. I don't want to overstate that we're somehow in-the-dark about a game. I just think there is a qualitative difference between playing a game and developing an opiniona about it pre-release.

The opinion developed pre-relsease is often a larger factor in the decision to buy than than having actually played the game.

The reality of gaming, is that the console market is is what is pushing sales, and for the most part, that market has a very young audience who purchase games based on their looks instead of actually researching the game before they buy it, thats why developers are shortening their games, I mean, if you can make a game 8-12 hours long and sell millions of copies, why would you make a long indepth game for the same amount of sales, its depressing.

[the_one_54321]

Night Prowler76 wrote...
The reality of gaming, is that the console market is is what is pushing sales, and for the most part, that market has a very young audience who purchase games based on their looks instead of actually researching the game before they buy it, thats why developers are shortening their games, I mean, if you can make a game 8-12 hours long and sell millions of copies, why would you make a long indepth game for the same amount of sales, its depressing.

Even assuming what you say is verifiable (and I don't strictly disagree with you either), all those "console kids" probably did not actually play a game before they decided to buy it.

[Stanley Woo]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

Quit being a fanboy, dont assume that people will buy the game if it looks crappy, sorry you cannot comprehend that, and name calling is quite childish.

Then why do you do it?

Folks, let's keep it down to a dull roar, cut out the name-calling and insults, and don't turn this into yet another platform wars discussion, please. Thank you.

[Night Prowler76]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...
The reality of gaming, is that the console market is is what is pushing sales, and for the most part, that market has a very young audience who purchase games based on their looks instead of actually researching the game before they buy it, thats why developers are shortening their games, I mean, if you can make a game 8-12 hours long and sell millions of copies, why would you make a long indepth game for the same amount of sales, its depressing.

Even assuming what you say is verifiable (and I don't strictly disagree with you either), all those "console kids" probably did not actually play a game before they decided to buy it.

  Thats my point, for the most part the younger audience will go for a game that has more flash than substance, whether they have had experience with that game or not, right now the Xbox 360 has a higher attach rate than the other consoles and sells way more games than their PC counterparts. And the average Xbox user is under 20, so I totally understand why the game has taken a less in depth approach, its good business, make the combat flashy like God of War, make the dialogue like Mass effect, and hopefully they younger crowd will eat it up and put millions in Bioware's and EA's pocket, and if this happens, the next DA will be even shorter with less customization, because they know they can make more money by doing less, alot of devs are following this model now.

[BurtonSD]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

Few87 wrote...

It isnt really petty to hope this game goes down as a failure. It would be good for the industry for it to be shown that not all games need to be super casual action extreme. I mean why change Dragon Age into Mass Effect? (Which as we all know is what has happend) Purely because they think this will sell better as more casual action players will like it. They will go on about oh no this is the direction we wanted. NONSENSE you just want quick easy money. You are sell outs in the strongest sense of the word. If this game tanks then maybe they will realise that not everyone wants mass effect in a different guise. Youve already got that game and Dragon Age was a different type that a different kind of player enjoyed. But if this tanks then it probably wont help, they will just change dragon age to an iPhone only game because hey thats casual action super cool isnt it!?

Dumb post.  You also will buy the game for the same reasons I listed in my previous post.

Quit being a fanboy, dont assume that people will buy the game if it looks crappy, sorry you cannot comprehend that, and name calling is quite childish.

Practice what you preach please. Thank you.

[AlanC9]

Night Prowler76 wrote...


The reality of gaming, is that the console market is is what is pushing sales, and for the most part, that market has a very young audience who purchase games based on their looks instead of actually researching the game before they buy it, thats why developers are shortening their games, I mean, if you can make a game 8-12 hours long and sell millions of copies, why would you make a long indepth game for the same amount of sales, its depressing.

Source that, please. The last demographic data I saw says you're just wrong.

And why do you think it's the kids who want shorter games? It's the guys with jobs who can't put 40 hours a week into gaming, from what I've seen.

[kinna]

Sorry if someone has already said this but I couldn´t be bothered to read through all the pages. If you want a CRPG where you can make the kind of character you want, who can do whatever you want, then you´re in luck. Because that kind of games have been in existence for a while now, Fallout 1 and 2.

[Phoenixblight]

AlanC9 wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...


The reality of gaming, is that the console market is is what is pushing sales, and for the most part, that market has a very young audience who purchase games based on their looks instead of actually researching the game before they buy it, thats why developers are shortening their games, I mean, if you can make a game 8-12 hours long and sell millions of copies, why would you make a long indepth game for the same amount of sales, its depressing.

Source that, please. The last demographic data I saw says you're just wrong.

And why do you think it's the kids who want shorter games? It's the guys with jobs who can't put 40 hours a week into gaming, from what I've seen.

What he said. Demographic shows that the average gamer is over the age of 18 and plays atleast 7.6 hours a week and that there are more women playing video games then boys 17 or younger.


Source:
http://www.articlesb...ers-395942.html

Modifié par Phoenixblight, 21 janvier 2011 - 07:12 .

[Uomoz1987]

Well' i think Dragon Age is not a game for kids and I hope you are not suggesting this (Blood, Sex etc).

Also this lore have enough substance to blow away most of the current rpg around (if not all).

Fewer gameplay hours? Ofc i hope quality>quantity. Remember great old games like BG and PT had isometric graphics, only text interactions, so a lot of content was 300 time easier to produce.

Remember that the autoattack was an autoattack there too, it's not like now DAII is suddenly an action spam game. Also if I remember correctly (about those who say that skills act too fast now compared to DAO-BG) BG skills\\\\spells were instantly activated there too (in BG2 few spells didnt have a cast time either).

So stop blaming DA to be an action game because its not so different from those old games. The few big changes from those times are the 3d graphics (OHHH FANCY) and the third person view (OOOOOHHH SUPER FANCY)...

my2cents

Modifié par Uomoz1987, 21 janvier 2011 - 07:35 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

DaggerFiend wrote...

You know, Sylvius, I said this before (I think you may have overlooked it), they're trying to enhance the experience for story-receptive players. If this does or doesn't enhance the experience is arguable, but that's the reason they're doing it. It's less wanting to be forced and more wanting a better story, and if this does result in a better story, they (and by they, I mean we) will be for it.

Sure, but it doesn't improve the story.  I've been saying that all along.  There's nothing preventing people who don't want to fiddle with the story's details from not doing that.

In Exile wrote...

But this is no different than arguing that you cannot predict the behaviour of a person (even if we could predict the behaviour of people perfectly) without knowing they are in fact people and not protons.

That there is a baseline need for category membership before prediction doesn't mean prediction doesn't work.

It means prediction doesn't work prior to the correct assignment of category membership.

Except, of course, for the fact that empathy works.

Empathy is simply one person projecting his own emotional responses on another.  It looks like empathy when the two people have relevantly similar emotional reactions, but if they don't then the entire system falls apart.

In Exile wrote...

'Cause, really, beside VO, what major changes has DA2 made? Fixed race? Other rpgs had that. Fixed background? Most if not all RPGs had that.

Fixed companion appearances.  That, combined with the voice/paraphrase system, makes the game look a lot like ME to a lot of people.

I agree that the voice/paraphrase system is the more relevant similarity.

LdyShayna wrote...

I do find it rather difficult to believe that they will take me seriously if I do not put my money where my mouth is, however. 

I've already explained to the folks at BioWare that I will buy all of their games up until I stop completely, because playing them lets me have nmore intelligent discussions about the features.

I didn't enjoy ME, and I didn't enjoy ME2, but there were things ME2 did well that I think warrant mention in discussions of features for future games.  And there are things ME2 did less well even that ME, and I wouldn't know BioWare had moved in that direction without having played the game.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 21 janvier 2011 - 09:10 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

the_one_54321 wrote...

LdyShayna wrote...

I don't mind them making games that's not for me.  99% of the games being made are like that.  What I wonder is, if other people do like what I want,  why is what I want being completely eliminated from the market?

I certainly can't answer that question. The only thought that comes to mind is that developers that strike it successful are invariably then going after the bigger fish. I don't know that this is the correct answer or the only correct answer. It's just the only thing I can think of.

I think a developer like BioWare could benefit from having a Niche Games division where they make games targetting subsets of the gaming audience.  They'd be smaller games, and cheaper to produce, and thus I think they'd get an acceptable return on their investment.

And many of the features we now see in games are the consequence of localisation.  For example, in different languages the sentences need to be constructed differently based on who is being addressed, so BioWare now needs to know that all of the time (this, I think, is the reason they don't let us control party members in conversation anymore).  But if they only make a English-language version of the game, that problem goes away.

[JrayM16]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

LdyShayna wrote...

I don't mind them making games that's not for me.  99% of the games being made are like that.  What I wonder is, if other people do like what I want,  why is what I want being completely eliminated from the market?

I certainly can't answer that question. The only thought that comes to mind is that developers that strike it successful are invariably then going after the bigger fish. I don't know that this is the correct answer or the only correct answer. It's just the only thing I can think of.

I think a developer like BioWare could benefit from having a Niche Games division where they make games targetting subsets of the gaming audience.  They'd be smaller games, and cheaper to produce, and thus I think they'd get an acceptable return on their investment.

And many of the features we now see in games are the consequence of localisation.  For example, in different languages the sentences need to be constructed differently based on who is being addressed, so BioWare now needs to know that all of the time (this, I think, is the reason they don't let us control party members in conversation anymore).  But if they only make a English-language version of the game, that problem goes away.

I like this idea, except for the English only part.  There's a huge hardcore RPG base in eastern Europe, just look back a few months at all the threads where people in Eastern European countires were complaining about not getting certain games shipped to said countries and so on.  English only can't sustain a hardcore RPG market, even cheap niche games.

[Night Prowler76]

Phoenixblight wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...


The reality of gaming, is that the console market is is what is pushing sales, and for the most part, that market has a very young audience who purchase games based on their looks instead of actually researching the game before they buy it, thats why developers are shortening their games, I mean, if you can make a game 8-12 hours long and sell millions of copies, why would you make a long indepth game for the same amount of sales, its depressing.

Source that, please. The last demographic data I saw says you're just wrong.

And why do you think it's the kids who want shorter games? It's the guys with jobs who can't put 40 hours a week into gaming, from what I've seen.

What he said. Demographic shows that the average gamer is over the age of 18 and plays atleast 7.6 hours a week and that there are more women playing video games then boys 17 or younger.


Source:
http://www.articlesb...ers-395942.html

  I think if you check out the statistics for the console which has the most users (xbox live) you will notice a trend, that most of the top games are yearly releases geared to younger audiences, Now you may say call of duty is a M rated game etc, but that doesnt change the fact that parents buy games for their kids, so the ratings have no relevance.

  I am not talking about how many people that game and their age, Im talking about the amount of games that people buy, and younger people buy more games, and this is why they game has been streamlined, the biggest selling games are geared to the younger crowd, whether they are rated so, the best selling game last year was Call of duty black Ops, which is  T or M rated game, not sure off the top of my head, but the average player is not even old enough to legally purchase the game, now ask yourself, would it be in BioWares best interest to cater to this market? Yes it would.

[JrayM16]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

Phoenixblight wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...


The reality of gaming, is that the console market is is what is pushing sales, and for the most part, that market has a very young audience who purchase games based on their looks instead of actually researching the game before they buy it, thats why developers are shortening their games, I mean, if you can make a game 8-12 hours long and sell millions of copies, why would you make a long indepth game for the same amount of sales, its depressing.

Source that, please. The last demographic data I saw says you're just wrong.

And why do you think it's the kids who want shorter games? It's the guys with jobs who can't put 40 hours a week into gaming, from what I've seen.

What he said. Demographic shows that the average gamer is over the age of 18 and plays atleast 7.6 hours a week and that there are more women playing video games then boys 17 or younger.


Source:
http://www.articlesb...ers-395942.html

  I think if you check out the statistics for the console which has the most users (xbox live) you will notice a trend, that most of the top games are yearly releases geared to younger audiences, Now you may say call of duty is a M rated game etc, but that doesnt change the fact that parents buy games for their kids, so the ratings have no relevance.

  I am not talking about how many people that game and their age, Im talking about the amount of games that people buy, and younger people buy more games, and this is why they game has been streamlined, the biggest selling games are geared to the younger crowd, whether they are rated so, the best selling game last year was Call of duty black Ops, which is  T or M rated game, not sure off the top of my head, but the average player is not even old enough to legally purchase the game, now ask yourself, would it be in BioWares best interest to cater to this market? Yes it would.

Perhaps, but everybody bought games like Call of Duty.  Do kids make up a significant portion of sales for games like that, sure.  But adults sales are equal to if not greater than the sales from kids.

[Night Prowler76]

Phoenixblight wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...


The reality of gaming, is that the console market is is what is pushing sales, and for the most part, that market has a very young audience who purchase games based on their looks instead of actually researching the game before they buy it, thats why developers are shortening their games, I mean, if you can make a game 8-12 hours long and sell millions of copies, why would you make a long indepth game for the same amount of sales, its depressing.

Source that, please. The last demographic data I saw says you're just wrong.

And why do you think it's the kids who want shorter games? It's the guys with jobs who can't put 40 hours a week into gaming, from what I've seen.

What he said. Demographic shows that the average gamer is over the age of 18 and plays atleast 7.6 hours a week and that there are more women playing video games then boys 17 or younger.


Source:
http://www.articlesb...ers-395942.html

It says the Majority are between 18-34, it doesnt give any actual numbers of how many are in each age range tho, thats very vague and whether its actually factual remains to be seen, thats not really evidence of anything.

[Chris Priestly]

This is no longer Dragon Age 2 related. If you want to continue discussing neiche marketing or consumer fanbase comparrisons, you can do so in Off Topic.


LOCKDOWN!

[Night Prowler76]

JrayM16 wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...

Phoenixblight wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...


The reality of gaming, is that the console market is is what is pushing sales, and for the most part, that market has a very young audience who purchase games based on their looks instead of actually researching the game before they buy it, thats why developers are shortening their games, I mean, if you can make a game 8-12 hours long and sell millions of copies, why would you make a long indepth game for the same amount of sales, its depressing.

Source that, please. The last demographic data I saw says you're just wrong.

And why do you think it's the kids who want shorter games? It's the guys with jobs who can't put 40 hours a week into gaming, from what I've seen.

What he said. Demographic shows that the average gamer is over the age of 18 and plays atleast 7.6 hours a week and that there are more women playing video games then boys 17 or younger.


Source:
http://www.articlesb...ers-395942.html

  I think if you check out the statistics for the console which has the most users (xbox live) you will notice a trend, that most of the top games are yearly releases geared to younger audiences, Now you may say call of duty is a M rated game etc, but that doesnt change the fact that parents buy games for their kids, so the ratings have no relevance.

  I am not talking about how many people that game and their age, Im talking about the amount of games that people buy, and younger people buy more games, and this is why they game has been streamlined, the biggest selling games are geared to the younger crowd, whether they are rated so, the best selling game last year was Call of duty black Ops, which is  T or M rated game, not sure off the top of my head, but the average player is not even old enough to legally purchase the game, now ask yourself, would it be in BioWares best interest to cater to this market? Yes it would.

Perhaps, but everybody bought games like Call of Duty.  Do kids make up a significant portion of sales for games like that, sure.  But adults sales are equal to if not greater than the sales from kids.

If you have a game like Call of duty, put it in, play for a couple of hours, and listen to the other players, and you tell me how many people you hear that are over 18 lol, Im not trying to anger anyone here, but its just a fact, the console is king, the casual gamers are dictating the games now, yearly games are the big sellers, not big well thought out games, I play both styles, but I would rather play some nice long RPGs, but they are just not being made that much anymore.

[JrayM16]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

JrayM16 wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...

Phoenixblight wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...


The reality of gaming, is that the console market is is what is pushing sales, and for the most part, that market has a very young audience who purchase games based on their looks instead of actually researching the game before they buy it, thats why developers are shortening their games, I mean, if you can make a game 8-12 hours long and sell millions of copies, why would you make a long indepth game for the same amount of sales, its depressing.

Source that, please. The last demographic data I saw says you're just wrong.

And why do you think it's the kids who want shorter games? It's the guys with jobs who can't put 40 hours a week into gaming, from what I've seen.

What he said. Demographic shows that the average gamer is over the age of 18 and plays atleast 7.6 hours a week and that there are more women playing video games then boys 17 or younger.


Source:
http://www.articlesb...ers-395942.html

  I think if you check out the statistics for the console which has the most users (xbox live) you will notice a trend, that most of the top games are yearly releases geared to younger audiences, Now you may say call of duty is a M rated game etc, but that doesnt change the fact that parents buy games for their kids, so the ratings have no relevance.

  I am not talking about how many people that game and their age, Im talking about the amount of games that people buy, and younger people buy more games, and this is why they game has been streamlined, the biggest selling games are geared to the younger crowd, whether they are rated so, the best selling game last year was Call of duty black Ops, which is  T or M rated game, not sure off the top of my head, but the average player is not even old enough to legally purchase the game, now ask yourself, would it be in BioWares best interest to cater to this market? Yes it would.

Perhaps, but everybody bought games like Call of Duty.  Do kids make up a significant portion of sales for games like that, sure.  But adults sales are equal to if not greater than the sales from kids.

If you have a game like Call of duty, put it in, play for a couple of hours, and listen to the other players, and you tell me how many people you hear that are over 18 lol, Im not trying to anger anyone here, but its just a fact, the console is king, the casual gamers are dictating the games now, yearly games are the big sellers, not big well thought out games, I play both styles, but I would rather play some nice long RPGs, but they are just not being made that much anymore.

I think it's an attitude thing.  Kids are more likely to yell at people over voice chat.  It's not an accurate measurement of demographic.

[TheMadCat]

Chris Priestly wrote...

This is no longer Dragon Age 2 related. If you want to continue discussing neiche marketing or consumer fanbase comparrisons, you can do so in Off Topic.


LOCKDOWN!

Believe you had a bit of a misfire there.

[JrayM16]

TheMadCat wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

This is no longer Dragon Age 2 related. If you want to continue discussing neiche marketing or consumer fanbase comparrisons, you can do so in Off Topic.


LOCKDOWN!

Believe you had a bit of a misfire there.

Indeed, the locking seems to have failed.