1869 Antworten in diesem Thema

[Johnny Shepard]

There was a really intresting discusion in the Meredith thread before it go compleatly of track with talk about Mages should be ruling the world and blowing up things for fun.
I would really want that discusion to continue so I started this thread. I hope some Devs vill stop by and give their take on the mather as well.


As I se it, the problem isn't that the Mage's are under guard because they can be dangerus and Im not just talking about Blood Magic. They can't compleatly controll what can happen to them.

The
problem, as I se it, is the way the Templars and the Chantry treat the
Mages with hate and disgust as if they where monsters. Like it was the
Mage's fault that he/she was born a Mage.
And that they are forbidden to have a family.

If
Templars where more as protectors then jailers there would not be as big of a
problem. I don't thin Mage's would rebell or run away if they could
live there own life with Templars guarding them. Its the misstreatment
and the fact that they are held in a Tower that makes them act up.

And
it comes down to being the Chantrys fault because they misstreat the
Templars (making them addicts) who themseves take it out on the Mages.

Should
the Mages be on their own? No. Even Anders knows that would be a big
problem (infact he say's just that). But they should not be treated like
evil monsters.

What do you think?

Bearbeitet von Johnny Shepard, 17 Januar 2011 - 08:14 .

[Guitar-Hero]

I think thats a bit biased, surely not all templars hate mages, templars have been given the villain stamp in this discussion, and sometimes rightly so but, can you really blame them for being extra carefull with mages, take cullen forinstance, i would have reacted similar.

Although it could be really interesting to se two templars in conflict about a mage, one is filled with fear and hate, the other filled with compassion and mercy.

[TheRevanchist]

I have a personal battle against myself with this issue. On one hand I see what the Templars do as a nessecity. Take Uldred for example, it's people like him that need to be watched, people that the Chantry (rightfuly so) are afraid of. On the other hand Mages do not deserve the hatred and disdain the world gives them, because most are not like Uldred and simply want to live their lives and learn magic. However it is immpossible for the Chantry to tell who is Uldred and who isn't, so they take steps to try and ensure it can't happen to begin with.

[Sylvius the Mad]

If I were a mage, I would vigorously support total freedom for mages.

If I were not a mage, I support housing them in internment camps.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

The Chantry and Templars are not needed as much as people tend to believe. Take the Tevinter Imperium. That country is ruled entirly by mages and have been for centuries yet clearly that country hasn't fallen appart having large sections of its population turning into Abominations now do they? The Harrowing is a Tevinter system to make sure that doesn't happen, they probably have other systems or rituals take place at different periods of a mages life to ensure that they don't turn into an Abomination.



If the Tevinter can maintain a completly stable government with Mages in charge than surely we can live in a world where Mages are free of being controled and not fear situations like Uldred happening.

[Reaverwind]

filaminstrel wrote...

I think the system of forcefully taking mages at a young age to make sure they know how to use their powers without becoming an abomination or such is important, though they should be more lax after the mage has proven himself. Also the Rite of Tranquility and the Harrowing are a bit questionable.

From what Wynne and others have to say, not all are taken forcefully, but are literally thrown at the Chantry, if not killed outright by the local populace. I do agree training is needed, but once that's done, mages should have greater freedom of movement. I abhor the idea of Tranquility and feel the practice should be dropped. I'm on the fence about the Harrowing, though.

Bearbeitet von Reaverwind, 17 Januar 2011 - 08:47 .

[Dhiro]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

The Chantry and Templars are not needed as much as people tend to believe. Take the Tevinter Imperium. That country is ruled entirly by mages and have been for centuries yet clearly that country hasn't fallen appart having large sections of its population turning into Abominations now do they? The Harrowing is a Tevinter system to make sure that doesn't happen, they probably have other systems or rituals take place at different periods of a mages life to ensure that they don't turn into an Abomination.

If the Tevinter can maintain a completly stable government with Mages in charge than surely we can live in a world where Mages are free of being controled and not fear situations like Uldred happening.

Tevinter Imperium? REALLY? You want to bring the TEVINTER IMPERIUM for this discussion? Even David Gaider said they FAIL. Hard.

[Heimdall]

Reaverwind wrote...

filaminstrel wrote...

I think the system of forcefully taking mages at a young age to make sure they know how to use their powers without becoming an abomination or such is important, though they should be more lax after the mage has proven himself. Also the Rite of Tranquility and the Harrowing are a bit questionable.

From what Wynne and others have to say, not all are taken forcefully, but literally thrown at the Chantry, if not killed outright by the local populace. I do agree training is needed, but once that's done, mages should have greater freedom of movement. I abhor the idea of Tranquility and feel the practice should be dropped. I'm on the fence about the Harrowing, though.

I think Tranquility is fine as long as it isn't forced on anyone and it's only a choice for someone who doesn't believe they could survive the harrowing.  The harrowing actually seems like a good idea to make sure a mage is strong willed enough to defend themselves from a demon, but after a mage passes it they should be granted much more freedom.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

The morality of the country is not what is in question here. The question was can Mages be free and be trusted not to become Abominations. Clearly the Tevinter has found a way of allowing every Mage freedom and we don't see Abominations coming out of that place.

[Malanek]

They require guidance and ultimately in the worst case policing. The chantry should have nothing to do with governance, their own prejudices render them unsuitable and actually dangerous. The incident with uldred is as much their fault as the blood mages. Templars should be placed under command of a mage council to assist policing. The mage council should be answerable to the countrys government, in Feraldans case the king/queen.

[Dhiro]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

The morality of the country is not what is in question here. The question was can Mages be free and be trusted not to become Abominations. Clearly the Tevinter has found a way of allowing every Mage freedom and we don't see Abominations coming out of that place.

*sigh* Yes, and we know how a country full of mages, ruled by mages, turned out.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Dhiro wrote...

*sigh* Yes, and we know how a country full of mages, ruled by mages, turned out.

It turned out pretty well for the mages.

I can totally see why mages would support trying that sort of thing again.

[TheRevanchist]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

The morality of the country is not what is in question here. The question was can Mages be free and be trusted not to become Abominations. Clearly the Tevinter has found a way of allowing every Mage freedom and we don't see Abominations coming out of that place.

How do you know? you hear nothing about Tevinter throughout the game. As far as I'm concered they could have abomonations running rampent. If such a thing did happen do you honestly think Tevinter would let other countrys know it happend? I doubt it.

[Reaverwind]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

The morality of the country is not what is in question here. The question was can Mages be free and be trusted not to become Abominations. Clearly the Tevinter has found a way of allowing every Mage freedom and we don't see Abominations coming out of that place.

We don't know that the Tevinter Imperium allows every Mage freedom. For all we know, a select few may be lording it over the other mages along with everyone else.

[Dhiro]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

*sigh* Yes, and we know how a country full of mages, ruled by mages, turned out.

It turned out pretty well for the mages.

I can totally see why mages would support trying that sort of thing again.

And I can totally see why the Chantry would smack them in the head with a statue of Andraste. Great for the mages, horrible for everybody else.

[Reaverwind]

Dhiro wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

*sigh* Yes, and we know how a country full of mages, ruled by mages, turned out.

It turned out pretty well for the mages.

I can totally see why mages would support trying that sort of thing again.

And I can totally see why the Chantry would smack them in the head with a statue of Andraste. Great for the mages, horrible for everybody else.

Wouldn't that be "Sword of Mercy"?

[TheRevanchist]

Dhiro wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

*sigh* Yes, and we know how a country full of mages, ruled by mages, turned out.

It turned out pretty well for the mages.

I can totally see why mages would support trying that sort of thing again.

And I can totally see why the Chantry would smack them in the head with a statue of Andraste. Great for the mages, horrible for everybody else.

Indeed...Tevinter can not imagine life without slavery.

[Ziggeh]

Johnny Shepard wrote...
The problem, as I se it, is the way the Templars and the Chantry treat the Mages with hate and disgust as if they where monsters. Like it was the Mage's fault that he/she was born a Mage.

It's built into the system, even if one believes it's the ideal way to deal with the issue in theory, the practice will leave a lot to be desired. The Templar order is going to attract people with certain personalities and motivations, while the situation will inevitably lead to an antagonistic relationship between prisoner and guard. I think it's my favourite part of the setting because it's wonderfully complex.

[Dhiro]

Reaverwind wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

*sigh* Yes, and we know how a country full of mages, ruled by mages, turned out.

It turned out pretty well for the mages.

I can totally see why mages would support trying that sort of thing again.

And I can totally see why the Chantry would smack them in the head with a statue of Andraste. Great for the mages, horrible for everybody else.

Wouldn't that be "Sword of Mercy"?

No. I demand that every Templar fight using a statue of Andraste.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Dhiro wrote...

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

The morality of the country is not what is in question here. The question was can Mages be free and be trusted not to become Abominations. Clearly the Tevinter has found a way of allowing every Mage freedom and we don't see Abominations coming out of that place.

*sigh* Yes, and we know how a country full of mages, ruled by mages, turned out.

Are you paying attention to what I'm saying at all? I'm not talking about putting mages in charge I'm pointing to the fact that the Tevinter have free mages running around their country and they have rituals in place to ensure that they don't become Abominations.

To the poster who asked how do we know there arn't abominations in Tevinter?... Did you not see Uldren? Do you really think if there were full fledged abominations like him in that country that they wouldn't be able to cross a simple border into another country?

[ISpeakTheTruth]

kylecouch wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

*sigh* Yes, and we know how a country full of mages, ruled by mages, turned out.

It turned out pretty well for the mages.

I can totally see why mages would support trying that sort of thing again.

And I can totally see why the Chantry would smack them in the head with a statue of Andraste. Great for the mages, horrible for everybody else.

Indeed...Tevinter can not imagine life without slavery.

And the Chantry can't imagine life without slavery either it would seem. Or would imprisoning mages for their entire life and getting Templars to become drug addicts so they'll do whatever the Chantry says not count?

[Dhiro]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

The morality of the country is not what is in question here. The question was can Mages be free and be trusted not to become Abominations. Clearly the Tevinter has found a way of allowing every Mage freedom and we don't see Abominations coming out of that place.

*sigh* Yes, and we know how a country full of mages, ruled by mages, turned out.

Are you paying attention to what I'm saying at all? I'm not talking about putting mages in charge I'm pointing to the fact that the Tevinter have free mages running around their country and they have rituals in place to ensure that they don't become Abominations.

They have? Can you please point where this is stated? I fear I must have missed it.

[Eveangaline]

I want to know how they handle mages in Tevinter. Anders said they had a better way there, but I don't remember him ever specifying what it was.

[Maria Caliban]

Johnny Shepard wrote...

The
problem, as I se it, is the way the Templars and the Chantry treat the
Mages with hate and disgust as if they where monsters. Like it was the
Mage's fault that he/she was born a Mage.
And that they are forbidden to have a family.

I'd say that in DA:O, the Templar NPCs were more sympathetic to the mages than any other group. That Gregor 'took back' his request for the Rite of Annulment speaks volumes for his level of sympathy.

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

... I'm pointing to the fact that the Tevinter have free mages running around their country and they have rituals in place to ensure that they don't become Abominations.

The Tevinter have Templars and Circles. Magisters can 'run around,' but the average mage cannot. And I haven't heard anything about a Tevinter only ritual that ensures no one becomes an abomination.

Bearbeitet von Maria Caliban, 17 Januar 2011 - 09:09 .