140 réponses à ce sujet

[Sajuro]

Arijharn wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

One person needs to believe in you so you can believe in the them that believes in you

Kamina from Tenga Toppa Gurren Lagaan?

I would settle for someone to tell Shepard to clench his jaw and punch him when he's given up (Bonus points if it is al-Jilani)
-Shepard is sitting in the normandy after everyone left, when he sees al-Jilani-
Shepard: Come to rub it in? -gets punched and knocked to the ground by her-
al-Jilani: So that's it? -rubbing her fist- You're just going to give up? The Reapers win?
Shepard: Well what do you want me to do? We lost the Citadel. -tries to get up but gets punched again- what was that for?
al-Jilani: What's the matter, did a Krogan take your quad? Call me when the Shepard who stopped Sovereign gets back. -turns to walk away-
Shepard: There are thousands of them? What the **** do you want me to do? I'm just one person -gets hit again-
al-Jilani: -muttering-damn that feels good -speaks up- You're commander mother-fraking Shepard, you didn't come all this way to give up, did you? -Shepard silent, looking away. al-Jilani grabs his face and forces him to look at her- don't believe in yourself! Believe in the me who believes in you! Yours is the will that will pierce the heavens and burst into a new tomorrow! Who the hell are you? Jacob Taylor?
Shepard: -stands up- you're right.
al-Jilani: of course I'm right, I used a paragon dialogue option -gets punched by Shepard and knocked to the ground-
Shepard: And that's for hitting me, and that false accusation of me being Jacob. -walks out of the room to rally a resistance-

[Iakus]

Il Divo wrote...

What you say is true, but there's a bit more to what I'm saying. Let me use Anderson at the start of Mass Effect as an example. Great character, Shepard's mentor, all that. Yet his belief in the Reapers is entirely non-sensical at the start of Mass Effect. All the 'evidence' presented at the time amounted to Shepard having a vision and a one-liner from Saren about their return. This is a complex topic - proving the existence of a Reaper is infinitely more complicated than Mass Effect could ever to encompass. It feels more like characters between in the series bounce back and forth between belief and disbelief on Bioware's whim without any reason.

Why does Ashley believe in Reapers? She's just met Shepard! Why did the Council believe it during the battle for the Citadel?All they saw was a superpowerful ship, which doesn't support it being a 'reaper' necessarily. There is very little consistent logic in how Bioware goes about this.

At the beginning of Mass Effect, no one knew what the Reapers were exactly.  They were just a geth legend representing some sort of plot Saren was up to.  Anderson would believe in it, since he was more than willing to believe the worst in Saren. 

Ash Just saw the Eden Prime colony nearly destroyed by geth over a Prothean beacon.  Whether she personally believed in the Reapers at that point or not was immaterial.  The geth believed enough to come beyind the Veil for the first time in over two centuries.  After that, she becomes privy to everything Shep learns save the actual visions and Cipher.  Shiala, Benezia, the rachni, Liara, Virmire.  She's either there or learns about it at the meeting afterwards.

The Council saw a superpowerful ship, plus had Shep's warnings about Ilos, the Conduit, and the Mu Relay confirmed.  Whether it's compelling evidence to the player or not, this, combined with Shepards other reports, do eventually convince them.  If for whatever reason the writers absolutely had to have the Council disbelieve again, there should be a reason that could be poited to.  "I don't wanna believe, it's scaaaaaary" doesnt' cut it.

[jeweledleah]

Vaenier wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

You are right, this plot is just too railroaded. I want the option to open the Citadel relay and say frak you to the galaxy. I am tired of debate. Have a nice day.

Just to be clear, I wasn't purposely trying to antagonize you. I apologize if that is how my post came off.

No, its fine. Its just sad how far the game has to go out of its way to railraod the player. It just gets very tirering after a while. The suits come with built recorders for battle and they never even get used. Nobody once brings a camera on any mission. They blow up everything that could possibly convince them. Radiometric dating should show the dragons teeth and the materials making soverign are not Geth origin, but its never even mentioned. I just give up.

who is to say that ME3 doesn't start with Shepard in council chambers playing back the data recorded by his omnitool to the council?  we do not see it in Mass effect 2, but it doesn't mean that it will not happen.

edited to add - COuncil might have decided that Sovereign was an isolated incident, seeing as how Shep dissapears, presumed dead and for 2 years all they are doing is cleaning up isolated packs of Geth.  No sign of more Reapers.  whatsovever.  collectors were apparently known entities long before any metnion of Reapers, they just show up so rarely that no everyone actualy beleives that they exists, but them predating reaper knowledge makes them unconnected to reapers in council's eyes.

lastly - they already established how they feel about defending human or any colonies, really that are too close to Terminus systems or, outright outside of council space.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 18 janvier 2011 - 01:21 .

[Il Divo]

wulf3n wrote...

I think you're missing my point. I'm not saying they had no reason not to believe in reapers, just that you're apparent shock at their belief, is just as silly considering nothing about them is out of the realm of possibility.

Let me try this again in the manner that you have attempted. Let's say I were to tell you that the Earth began as a single completely round sphere and that a man took a spaceship from Mars brought down bulldozers, construction equipment, and whatever else and basically 'sculpted' the Earth as we know it, oceans, mountains, everything. after he was done, the man took all his equipment with him back up to Mars and if we flew there now, we would find him. All those separate elements exist. Men exist, Mars exists, spaceships, bulldozers, those all exists. Is this in the realm of 'possibility'? 

Yes, if we want to fall to the default "everything is possible", but the more practical response is 'no'. We have a history telling us how things have occurred, experts on the weather patterns, etc. That's what it would be like for the Council. They've heard the Reaper theory. Liara aside, no Prothean expert has validated their existence. Their circumstances, their very existence, has revolved around the idea that the Protheans created the relays, the Citadel, and that they happened do discover them. An Organic Mind is so arrogant that it's not willing to accept the possibility that there exists some life form (Reapers) which were able to manipulate our existence so precisely that even we could not notice. It would be like trying to convince someone that they are actually trapped in the Matrix.

But they do and they didn't! the idea that the government of space faring races would be as closed minded as the one in say galileo's time, is ridiculous. They're basically saying it can't exist because i can't comprehend how it would exist, even though the technology we established our very way of life on is beyond everyones comprehension.

But even if they don't fully grasp Reaper technology, they were still able to see certain effects with their own eyes. Humans discovered a Prothean cache on Ilos. "Okay, clearly alien life exists". Humans use a Mass Relay effectively. "Okay, teleportation is possible". The default scientific position is always skepticism until proven otherwise. Read some of Thomas Kuhn's philosophy on the progress of scientific revolutions, which always begins with a conflict of old belief vs. new. People always struggle to let go of what they believe is true, especially if they've accepted it their entire lives. It's not just "Gee, Reapers exist, I guess it's war!". It does lead to an unbelievable shock for the mind.  

[Iakus]

jeweledleah wrote...

who is to say that ME3 doesn't start with Shepard in council chambers playing back the data recorded by his omnitool to the council?  we do not see it in Mass effect 2, but it doesn't mean that it will not happen.

If this happens I want either

A) an option for Shepard to record them saying they believe in the Reapers to play back later or
a renegade option to sarcastically say "How long are you going to believe me this time?"

[wulf3n]

Il Divo wrote...
Let me try this again in the manner that you have attempted. Let's say I were to tell you that the Earth began as a single completely round sphere and that a man took a spaceship from Mars brought down bulldozers, construction equipment, and whatever else and basically 'sculpted' the Earth as we know it, oceans, mountains, everything. after he was done, the man took all his equipment with him back up to Mars and if we flew there now, we would find him. All those separate elements exist. Men exist, Mars exists, spaceships, bulldozers, those all exists. Is this in the realm of 'possibility'?  

If a man could do all those things then yes, its possible, sure no reason to believe it at the time, but if i someone came back from mars, trying to destroy everything, and some soldier who's been write every single time i've doubted them said it was that "MAN" then yes i would believe him, because it's happening.

Your point is actually very reminiscent of the ancient astronauts theory.

Modifié par wulf3n, 18 janvier 2011 - 01:29 .

[Nightwriter]

I refuse to believe the people defending this plot device are not secretly sick and tired of it. Refuse, I tell you!

I honestly could give a ferret's fart in England whether it's reasonable or plausible, it has gone on for too long, I tell you! Too long! Stop defending the Old Way, good friends and forumites! Cast down thy shackles! Free thyselves!

[Il Divo]

iakus wrote...

At the beginning of Mass Effect, no one knew what the Reapers were exactly.  They were just a geth legend representing some sort of plot Saren was up to.  Anderson would believe in it, since he was more than willing to believe the worst in Saren. 

'Believing the worst in Saren' however starts and ends with believing that he has some nefarious plan in action. But Reapers? At the start of Mass Effect? I doubt Anderson got to where he currently is by relying on a single voice recording.

The Council saw a superpowerful ship, plus had Shep's warnings about Ilos, the Conduit, and the Mu Relay confirmed.  Whether it's compelling evidence to the player or not, this, combined with Shepards other reports, do eventually convince them.  If for whatever reason the writers absolutely had to have the Council disbelieve again, there should be a reason that could be poited to.  "I don't wanna believe, it's scaaaaaary" doesnt' cut it.

But this is where what we regard as plotholes enter the picture, inconsistencies in action. Shepard's warning told them essentially that the Conduit was dangerous, which they readily acknowledged. The Salarian Councilor says that Saren is pursuing it. But proving that Saren was going to Ilos is still a long way off from convincing anyone that giant sentient space ships exist and that they intend to kill us all, which leads to the ending that we receive. Mass Effect 2 turns this around by telling us that the Council 'backpedaled' on their previous belief of Reapers, due to a lack of evidence which I think makes more sense. I would say "scary" is a more than adequate defense. The Reapers were intended as a testament to Lovecraftian horror. Lovecraft himself wrote from the perspective that there are creatures of such horror which we would sooner disbelieve, or risk going insane.   

[Il Divo]

Nightwriter wrote...

I refuse to believe the people defending this plot device are not secretly sick and tired of it. Refuse, I tell you!

I honestly could give a ferret's fart in England whether it's reasonable or plausible, it has gone on for too long, I tell you! Too long! Stop defending the Old Way, good friends and forumites! Cast down thy shackles! Free thyselves!

Oh, I am tired of it. But the one redeeming feature to how it was handled in Mass Effect 2 is that aside from a comment from the Illusive Man and the encounter on the Citadel, the Council was largely left out of the plot line. You don't report to them every mission, they don't lock your ship down, etc.

[Il Divo]

wulf3n wrote...

If a man could do all those things then yes, its possible, sure no reason to believe it at the time, but if i someone came back from mars, trying to destroy everything, and some soldier who's been write every single time i've doubted them said it was that "MAN" then yes i would believe him, because it's happening.

Your point is actually very reminiscent of the ancient astronauts theory.

That's rather hilarious. I'll be honest in saying that I just made that example off the top of my head.

But to your point, the key there is that such a belief would be considered crazy/insane until the man was encountered. The Reaper is the same way. The way in which the plot evolves, the Reaper theory is not just 'implausible' but completely insane. Short of the actual Reaper fleet arriving through the Citadel, there is little direct evidence which could be offered in reality.

[Last Vizard]

Nightwriter wrote...

This is not asking if it is plausible or believable that the Council still refuses to believe Shepard about the Reapers. I am not seeking a discussion about whether or not the Council is right or wrong.

This is asking, from a writing perspective: have they overused this plot device?

I guess I’m a little frustrated that they are still using it even in game two, and was wondering if anyone felt the same. It’s like reading all of The Order of the Phoenix and seeing the Ministry deny the truth for 800 pages, having Voldemort himself pop into the Ministry of Magic in front of eye witnesses, then picking up The Half-Blood Prince and discovering that in the time Harry was away the Ministry had gone back to denying everything and was handwaving the whole event as a practical joke some hooligans played to give people a scare. But I spent a whole book putting up with this crap and fighting to make the truth known!

Then you hop on the forums and people tell you, “I beg your pardon, it’s realistic that politicians would do a 180.” Well yes, but purely as a player I can’t help but think enough’s enough. I don’t like the No One Believes You trope in the best of times, but in excess it induces dangerously impatient foot tapping and exasperated sighs, which aren't good for my story enjoyment.

There are plenty of "conspiracy theorists" in the ME universe that say Nazara was a Reaper ship, denial is the path weak leaders walk but there will always be people who seek the truth.  I suggest going back to ME 1 and select "Let them die", plenty more weak leaders where they came from.

[Moiaussi]

Il Divo wrote...

So how does this point to Reapers? They could call it lost Prothean technology.

The hull fragments would be older than Prothean and a lot older than Geth.

They can call it 'state of the art' Geth tech.

They can, but not two years later by the start of ME2, after they have reverse engineered the weapons within two years and the result is so easy to refit that a police officer can construct them and refit them onto a foreign warship in negligible time in deep space using only parts he can fabricate on said scout vessel.

And there is still the dating issue.

They can say it's ancient, but how does pointing out advanced technology allow Shepard to convince the Council "Hey guys, I know all you saw were some really big guns, but that thing was sentient. There's alot more of them hiding out in dark space and they've exterminated every past species and are going to do so again". This simply does not follow just from seeing Sovereign fire a gun.

And yet there was a prothean recording that predicted exactly that. Evidence you continue to dismiss. By mid ME2, Shepard finds another beacon.  

...If traces of Reapers are impossible to find, then Reapers cannot exist. That's how it goes. I can say that demons exist, but they use 'magic' to hid from us. Well, it makes sense, but how do you prove the existence of a demon if there's nothing you can point to?  

So you are saying that until it was proven otherwise, the world really was flat?  No proof does not equate to 'cannot exist.' Besides, there was proof. Shepard comes across the derelect reaper hull in ME1. And again, there was the beacon.

The Turian Councilor's point is that if there have been Reapers and they've exterminated every past civilization, then there should be some trace, whether from the Reapers or other civilizations, that something really bad happened. However, Mass Effect leads us to believe that Liara aside, every major scholar insists on the Protheans.

There is also all the evidence that Liara had found, that was being dismissed simply because noone wanted to take a serious look at it.  There is another beacon found in ME2, intact this time and therefore with no excuse that it was some sort of explosion induced dream.... not when it sends identical images. There is evidence out there.

They didn't just say there wasn't enough evidence, they said there isn't any point to looking.

The Council believed that the Quarians represented the first ever experience with AI, and the dangers of such. It's not simply 'AI' which makes Reapers impossible to swallow.

The council also believed they were invincible before meeting the Rachni. They should have learned not to be so sure of themselves. It doesn not matter if it is Reapers coming or AI fluffy bunnies. They know for a fact that they don't know everything that is out there. A prior civilization that was wiped out entirely (unless you count the collectors) left a warning.

They are not merely questioning whether the images Shepard got from the beacon were real, but whether all the other evidence the team came across is real (including the information relayed by Vigil, which wasn't a 'dream').

Questioning the images from the beacon I understand, but the rest of it comes down to essentially calling Shepard's entire squad liars. Even the 'saren set up a hoax' schtick doesn't cut it. Saren found a prothean VI which he conveniently knew how to reprogram to present the reaper story, and then not just run out of power, but noone is able to figure out how to power it or how saren managed any of that? Or why saren would have such a VI set up precisely there rather than pretty much anywhere else where the story might actually help him somehow?

Saren's bit on vermire could have been a hoax. I mean anyone could set up to project a hologram in a specific place like that, but Vigil was too elabourate in too strange a place.

[Kenshen]

I think it is more that Anderson wanted to believe because of his past with Saren but aside from the recording we get from Tali we don't give him any evidence at all other than our word. Oh and I do agree with another poster here that our techs would have been in heaven after looking over what was left of Soverign.



While I still believe that we have not given the council enough for them to go public they are hiding something from us. And to have someone who was killed return 2 years latter with the icon of the enemy on his chest I wouldn't trust that person either and certainly wouldn't tell them of any secret plans. Anderson proves that by not telling us about what the VS is up too.

[ABCoLD]

Only read the first post.



Yes it's annoying as sin.

[didymos1120]

Moiaussi wrote...
There is also all the evidence that Liara had found, that was being dismissed simply because noone wanted to take a serious look at it. 

What evidence? She had jack.  Here's her line: "There is remarkably little archaeological evidence of the protheans. And even less that might explain why they disappeared."  If asked how she knows the protheans weren't the first she'll just say it's a "feeling" and she "knows" she's right.  She outright states she cannot prove any of her theories, and it's just "subtle patterns". 

[Iakus]

Il Divo wrote...

'Believing the worst in Saren' however starts and ends with believing that he has some nefarious plan in action. But Reapers? At the start of Mass Effect? I doubt Anderson got to where he currently is by relying on a single voice recording.

He didn't.  The recordings showed that Saren was Up To Something.  Afterwards, he got reports of Shepard's activities just as the Council did.  And knowing Shepard, had a much greater degree of trust in them.  He started out wanting to believe, had a source he could believe in following Shepard's tracks.  The information was incredible, but came from someone he trusted.

But this is where what we regard as plotholes enter the picture, inconsistencies in action. Shepard's warning told them essentially that the Conduit was dangerous, which they readily acknowledged. The Salarian Councilor says that Saren is pursuing it. But proving that Saren was going to Ilos is still a long way off from convincing anyone that giant sentient space ships exist and that they intend to kill us all, which leads to the ending that we receive. Mass Effect 2 turns this around by telling us that the Council 'backpedaled' on their previous belief of Reapers, due to a lack of evidence which I think makes more sense. I would say "scary" is a more than adequate defense. The Reapers were intended as a testament to Lovecraftian horror. Lovecraft himself wrote from the perspective that there are creatures of such horror which we would sooner disbelieve, or risk going insane.   

So you see the evidence presented to the Council from Shepard and the Battle of the CItadel is a plothole?  We could argue that. I think it could be sufficient, and you don't.  

 But then comes the question:  does one plothole cancel out another?  Assuming the Council's belief in the Reapers at the end was in fact a plothole, does that make it okay to retcon it away in such an offhand fashion?  I for one think that a more concrete reason for their disbelief in ME 2 should have been presented.

Modifié par iakus, 18 janvier 2011 - 02:43 .

[In Exile]

Nightwriter wrote...
If a sentient starship whose technology is BILLIONS of years more advanced than ours doesn't make salvage techs go OMG WTF IS THIS SH*T?! then you've either failed to make smart scientists or you should've written the alien menace as being several billion years younger, perhaps only a few hundred/thousand years ahead of us.

How do you prove a piece of exploded tech is sentient? The salvage team, however, should have found that Sovereign was nothing like salvaged geth technology, and that should have been proof for Shepard's theories.

But what I said was that at the end of ME1, i.e. the Council Scene were either they suddenly turn around and buy your BS or Udina does, that whole bit makes no sense because there is no new evidence at that time that the reapers exist. The only person who should buy into the reapers there is Anderson, but he does anyway without any evidence. Frankly, Anderson comes off even more crazy than Shepard, because the only evidence he's going on is Shepard's word.

wulf3n wrote..
Except that Reaper tech is far more advanced
than geth, and that NO geth ship had anything even remotely resembling
reaper tech shows that either geth are so stupid, they didn't even think
to upgrade their old ships with this new technology they developded, or
they got soveriegn from somewhere else. Not to mention EVERYTHING
shepard has said up until this point has come true, so maybe he's right
about this.

The logic of "things I said in the past = true" => "things I say now = true" is dangerously suspect at best. I would not want my leaders to act on this.

Especially when the only things Shepard's been saying that have been proven are decidedly not crazy.

If my accountant tells me there's a discrepancy in my tax returns, I'm going to believe her. If she tells me Jesus is coming back from the dead to file my taxes for me, I'm going to look for a new accountant.

Like I said above: the analyzing Sovereign should be very strong evidence in favour. But it's not something that we have at the end of ME1, where by any and all accounts, the scene with the Council/Udina & Anderson happens right after the battle, i.e. with not time to pick up more evidence.

For starters NO ONE is saying the reapers are gods, in fact thats the
exact opposite of what im saying, in that because everything the reapers
are exists in the ME universe already, the idea of them isn't far
fetched.

Okay, then dragons existing is totally plausible. After all, all the things that make dragons up exist.

Do you not see how this is all just shoddy logic? Yes, we know the reapers exist because we have Shepard's PoV. But there isn't any good evidence at all until the end of ME1, and the Council doesn't have access to it yet.

That evidence being the remains of Sovereign (which actually need scientists to analyze them) and Vigil. ME2 correctly closes the gap on the issue of the Council doing a 180 at the end of ME1, but then just adds BS as to why the Council doesn't take either piece of evidence there seriously (i.e. Sovereign was just a hyper-advanced ship and Vigil just happened to die out before anyone spoke to it).

For example it would be like that african tribe using
android touchpads all the time, and then not believing Ipads are real.

No, I'd be more like the tribe using android touchpads all the time, and then not believing those touchpads are trying to kill them and have been doing so for centuries. That's the insane part you keep glossing over.

[TuringPoint]

Yeah... it's a little frustrating. It might be unrealistic too. But it works ok. The plot is still very immersive.

[wulf3n]

In Exile wrote...
If my accountant tells me there's a discrepancy in my tax returns, I'm going to believe her. If she tells me Jesus is coming back from the dead to file my taxes for me, I'm going to look for a new accountant. 

If your accountant said that as 3 guys with super powers were going around trying to save the world i'd start believing her.

In Exile wrote...
Okay, then dragons existing is totally plausible. After all, all the things that make dragons up exist. 

Komodo? Dinosaurs?

In Exile wrote...
No, I'd be more like the tribe using android touchpads all the time, and then not believing those touchpads are trying to kill them and have been doing so for centuries. That's the insane part you keep glossing over.

The idea behind what i'm saying is, if the technology exists, why is it so hard to believe it exists in some other form.

Quarians created geth, are the council races so arrogant to think they were the first to create an Synthetic life form?

Modifié par wulf3n, 18 janvier 2011 - 02:33 .

[didymos1120]

iakus wrote...

He didn't.  The recordings showed that Saren was Up To Something.  Afterwards, he got reports of Shepard's activities just as the Council did.  And knowing Shepard, had a much greater degree of trust in them.  He started out wanting to believe, had a source he could believe in following Shepard's tracks.  The information was incredible, but came from someone he trusted.

They also give the impression that, toward the beginning, for Anderson it was more of  a "If they're not real, then great.  But let's not take any chances" thing.  He has that one line "But if they do exist..." when you're being given the Normandy.

[Moiaussi]

In Exile wrote...

How do you prove a piece of exploded tech is sentient? The salvage team, however, should have found that Sovereign was nothing like salvaged geth technology, and that should have been proof for Shepard's theories.

But what I said was that at the end of ME1, i.e. the Council Scene were either they suddenly turn around and buy your BS or Udina does, that whole bit makes no sense because there is no new evidence at that time that the reapers exist. The only person who should buy into the reapers there is Anderson, but he does anyway without any evidence. Frankly, Anderson comes off even more crazy than Shepard, because the only evidence he's going on is Shepard's word.

Who cares if Sovereign was sentient?

Does it really matter if it was a manned ship or an AI ship? If so, how?

What evidence is there that the race that built sovereign is itself extinct? None.

Is it reasonable to conclude that if said race still exists, they might be xenophobic? Yes, the Council has met xenophobic races before.

Is it reasonable to conclude that Sovereign isn't of Geth design? Yes. Its capabilities are vastly superior to those of any of the Geth vessels.

Is there an alternative explaination? Yes, far fetched as it might sound, Shepard's story of the Reapers.

Note that the Reapers do not have to be AI's, nor individualy immortal. All they have to do is exist, have more such ships and be xenophobic. It could turn out that the Protheans really were the first to go down, and the Reapers are just a renegade band of Protheans. The truth doesn't have to be as far fetched as Shepard's story to still be a threat.

How Is it not worth pursuing this, or at least as an investigation?

[Marta Rio]

Moiaussi wrote...
The hull fragments would be older than Prothean and a lot older than Geth.

"Ah, yes, radiometric dating, we have dismissed that claim."

I prefer the interpretation that the council pretty much knows what's going on, but is covering it up for other reasons.  There was a nice post on this a while back - the OP wrote a letter from Councilor Verlan's perspective explaining why he had to deny the existence of the Reapers despite the overwhelming evidence from Shepard.

So...maybe we'll get a retcon?  Probably not though.

[RAF1940]

I agree. It's starting to ****** me off that the Council doesn't believe me.

[Haventh]

Yes, it does give me a bitter taste when i think about. It was fine in ME 1, but when it was re-hashed in ME 2, i got tired of it. And on a side note, the council's arguments for Sovereign to be a Geth creation is plainly dumb.



It is beyond obvious that Sovereign is not a Creation. If the Geth had such technology, they would utilize it.



I would think it better if they simply denied it being a Reaper, or simply saying it's a Geth creation, without any reasons, politicians are like that, and they do it often, giving a statement with noi reason.



After all, most wouldn'teven want to believe that the Reapers are real. It's pretty scary stuff.

[Moiaussi]

Marta Rio wrote...

Moiaussi wrote...
The hull fragments would be older than Prothean and a lot older than Geth.

"Ah, yes, radiometric dating, we have dismissed that claim."

I prefer the interpretation that the council pretty much knows what's going on, but is covering it up for other reasons.  There was a nice post on this a while back - the OP wrote a letter from Councilor Verlan's perspective explaining why he had to deny the existence of the Reapers despite the overwhelming evidence from Shepard.

So...maybe we'll get a retcon?  Probably not though.

Covering it up generally (which is totally reasonable) does not explain covering it up to Shepard or even to Cerberus. Besides, they never even asked him why he was with Cerberus, no debriefing, nothing.

They even let a 'terrorist ship' dock and then leave freely without even so much as a token inspection for contraband.