109 réponses à ce sujet

[Zan Mura]

earthbornFemShep wrote...

If those are the scenarios, you could easily game the system. 

Hence why I said "Of course, then people would min-max and get the best of both words unless the choices overlap somehow."

[Aggie Punbot]

Ieldra2 wrote...

This is what I actually demand:

That every big decision has plausible and meaningful consequences, and that Paragons can't have their cake and eat it (read: make idealistic decisions that *always* turn out in their favor, while Renegades *always* have to deal with the fallout).

Paragons twist the universe in their favor. They're always right, their decisions never have negative consequences, and even the most naive, emotional and strategically and ethically meaningless justification ("this is an abomination") usually gets them the perfect result. That's outright hateful, a kick in the face of all players who want some realism in their Shepard's actions, not just Renegades.

Renegades, where they're not just jerks, are supposed to be pragmatic, the characters who make hard decisions because they're necessary. So, if they are, where's the benefit, damn it? Because if there never isn't any, the decisions aren't pragmatic any more. Even a Renegade, if seeing that his reasonable decisions never work, will learn that the universe makes no sense and reflexively make Paragon decisions in future, because actually thinking about the scenario and shaping your decision to fit it obviously doesn't work.

The game tells us: don't think, don't reason, choose Paragon. It's right ™. Just do what gives you the warm fuzzies, and the world will reshape itself to be as warm as fuzzy as you want it, consistency and rationality be damned. Despicable.

I want a balance. Not in every decision - sometimes being Paragon is better, sometimes being Renegade is better - but over the course of the game, no alignment should consistently have better outcomes.Most particularly in the big decisions - the Council decision in ME1, the Collector base.decision in ME2, among others.

This post pretty much sums up my view on the matter. I doubt Bioware will turn Paragon and Renegade decisions into Right and Wrong for ME3. I just wish people would grasp the fact that playing as a renegade isn't necessarily "wrong" just like playing as a paragon isn't necessarily "right."

[Markinator_123]

earthbornFemShep wrote...

Zan Mura wrote...

masseffectexpert94 wrote...

if you do everything paragon you will have in mass effect 3 an army of geth an army of rachni and an army of krogan hopefully led by wrex these will prove great shock troopers for destroying the reapers mass effect core from the inside like shepard does in me2.

This is possible. Comparatively it's also possible that Renegades would have the full backing of the human-led council armada, their own reprogrammed Reaper, and a bunch of incredible high-tech weaponry from the Collector base. This way both sides would get positives from their decisions. Of course, then people would min-max and get the best of both words unless the choices overlap somehow.

If those are the scenarios, you could easily game the system.   Just choose enough renegade choices in ME1 to make you lean renegade (but save the rachni and wrex), and kill the council.  Then, choose whatever throughout ME2 (keep Legion, rewrite the geth, save the cure research) and keep the base at the end.  That would, in your theories, give you a powerhouse in ME3. 

However, I hope that those scenarios are not as straightforward.  I think that if you aren't a renegade in ME2, TIM will drop you in ME3, thus negating some benefits.  However, that won't change my choices.  I think alignment should play somewhat more of a role than just your choices--it should change how people deal "see" you and interact with you. 

I don't think alignment should play any role. Only the choices that you have made should play an effect. None of that Star Wars crap should be placed in Mass Effect. That idea is just as bad as the scars which was one of the worst ideas Bioware has come up with.

Modifié par Markinator_123, 21 janvier 2011 - 03:33 .

[Ryzaki]

I'm so sick of this anti-paragon/renegade bull****.



Gah. It's like people can't conceive that people might think differently from them and have valid reasons for doing so.



And yes *all* of my paragons destroy the heretic geth. The renegade doesn't have a monopoly on certain decisions (and vice versa).

[Omnicrat]

Mr. Sniper Rifle wrote...

Omnicrat wrote...

Bigdoser wrote...

This whole paragon vs renegade is ****ing childish, just enjoy the dam game and stop worrying about what other peoples choices are dear god =_=

It is childish to have a disscusion of the ethical/practical ramifications of brainwashing a race as opposed to preforming genocide on it?

edit:  I like the word ramifications better.

The debates fine; it's a fun little thing to discuss. Problem is, people are treating it like a war over which is the 'right' way to play, and then trying to cram it down the other side's throat.

Ah.  I understand.  Like how most of my argument is that destroing the base is a valid choice?

[Omnicrat]

Bigdoser wrote...

Mr. Sniper Rifle wrote...

Omnicrat wrote...

Bigdoser wrote...

This whole paragon vs renegade is ****ing childish, just enjoy the dam game and stop worrying about what other peoples choices are dear god =_=

It is childish to have a disscusion of the ethical/practical ramifications of brainwashing a race as opposed to preforming genocide on it?

edit:  I like the word ramifications better.

The debates fine; it's a fun little thing to discuss. Problem is, people are treating it like a war over which is the 'right' way to play, and then trying to cram it down the other side's throat.

As Mr sniper said I don't mind people debating certain topics but the OP just made this topic to spite/annoy paragons and the one who made the other topic is just as stupid. As I said I have no problem people discussing points what I hate is when people act like other people are beneth them or stupid for making a certain choice. The way some people are acting in this topic seem to think that paragons are stupid/naive. You can still be a paragon and make various decisions and be an a-hole you can still be a renegade and treat people with respect and such. I know a couple of renegade players who hate cerb and blew up the base, just cause your renegade does not = pragmatic decision making. Some people on this forum just have a huge stick up their ass imo, also the way how people act when discussing a certain choice if someone chooses a different choice some posters act like its the end of the world discussing various choices and such is fine but some people on this forum forget that it is a GAME.

So, you're not saying it is wrong to argue which is better in general, but to assert that one is totally invalid?  Or do you include calling one decision better then the other as bad?

[Swanea]

I think you can still "win" ME3 no matter your choices, but what will be the final result will be different. If you did everything "Best" if it be Ren/Par, for example, Most of earth lives, the other main races are still in power, they don't lose whole worlds. Squad members may have to "return" to their homes to help defend if you did not choose wisely.

The Rachni and Krogen issues could also affect all mentioned above.

And of course, the handling of the Geth is huge. If they were to be treated like any other race, they could help and fit in. If we try to "control them", they will fight back.

[Sajuro]

If you did not turn Garrus to the dark side then he will go back to his family.

[Xaijin]

Omnicrat wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

I expect many will want the main punishment to be for not being renegades.

Seriously.  Why are so many people pro-renegade?  I just don't get it.

Because it's teenage super penis power fantasy where you get to be jackass and people respect you instead of beating the sh!t ouf you like they would in real life. Most of the people I know personally who go complete renegade are extremely passive aggressive or alternately have occupations and situations where they have to be politically correct to a fault at all times, so they go home and enact hobbies that are pretty much the opposite, which is how they tend to ACTUALLY feel.

[Omnicrat]

Xaijin wrote...

Omnicrat wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

I expect many will want the main punishment to be for not being renegades.

Seriously.  Why are so many people pro-renegade?  I just don't get it.

Because it's teenage super penis power fantasy where you get to be jackass and people respect you instead of beating the sh!t ouf you like they would in real life. Most of the people I know personally who go complete renegade are extremely passive aggressive or alternately have occupations and situations where they have to be politically correct to a fault at all times, so they go home and enact hobbies that are pretty much the opposite, which is how they tend to ACTUALLY feel.

So... you're saying pro-renegades tent to be psycotic?