241 réponses à ce sujet

[thegreateski]

darknoon5 wrote...

ianmcdonald wrote...

Here's a question: Why wouldn't you want your product to appeal to the widest audience possible?

Because every shooter fan only enjoys shooters and are uneducated, apparently.

We dun like yer kind round dese parts boy.

*chew*
*spit*

Modifié par thegreateski, 19 janvier 2011 - 07:25 .

[Ulzeraj]

darknoon5 wrote...

ianmcdonald wrote...

Here's a question: Why wouldn't you want your product to appeal to the widest audience possible?

Because every shooter fan only enjoys shooters and are uneducated, apparently.

Its not about shooting games. I hate shooting games! My friend gave me Left For Dead 2 as a gift via steam and I would never consider playing it if weren't to have some fun with old friends that now live too far to be visited.

I was one of those lone guys playing Starcraft with random koreans while everyone was on the Counter Strike hype.

Shooting games are not my style and if someone I trusted didnt guaranteed that Mass Effect was a great game I would always disconsider it just because of the "shoot" in "shooting/rpg". I like ME, I agree with combat changes on ME2 but I still hate shooting games (ok thats not 100% true because I liked Blood and Hexen)

Modifié par Ulzeraj, 19 janvier 2011 - 07:30 .

[darknoon5]

Well, that's your opinion, but ME always has and always will be partially shooter, so I'd consider it a "shooting game."

[Ulzeraj]

darknoon5 wrote...

Well, that's your opinion, but ME always has and always will be partially shooter, so I'd consider it a "shooting game."

Thats not the point tho. The ME2 mechanics appeased a player who isnt member of the shooter bandwagon.

Anyway most shooter fans use only 2 neurons (one to point and other to shoot) of their brains while playing and couldn't handle the complexity of ME's story and focus on conversation. Its not like they are trying to appease this kind of player. [/joking]

Modifié par Ulzeraj, 19 janvier 2011 - 07:43 .

[Praetor Knight]

JKoopman wrote...

Exactly. Choice. I have no choice in ME2. It was fun in ME1 when I could choose to play a sniper-exclusive Infiltrator and only switch to my pistol in CQB. It was fun in ME1 when I could choose to load my assault rifle with Frictionless Materials mods and High-Explosive Rounds and pretend my Soldier was carrying around a .50 cal machinegun. Now that choice is gone and I see very little if any benefit for it's loss.

That would be more like an automatic 40mm grenade gun.

Every argument I've seen in favor of the thermal clip system is actually an argument in favor of or against something else, and could easily be accomplished with the overheat mechanic still in place. What it all seems to boil down to is simply "I enjoy generic shooters and I favor a system that is familiar to me."

But there is an overheat mechanic.

The cool down mechanic is what was replaced with ejectable heat sinks.

[Dazaster Dellus]

I have to say I like the gameplay style of the overheating better. Thermal clips are funny. They really don't make sense from a storyline standpoint either. I mean seriously.......With all the advanced science and technological breakthroughs of the ME universe in the future they still haven't created a way to disperse heat withought having to reload?!......Correction.....They originally found a way to do it in ME1 and then they decided to revert back to clips. Why not just go back to magazines with bullets?



The other reason that it doesn't make sense is this. Let's just say somehow we suspend all disbelief and go with the story that thermal clips are better. Who put out this information? I am guessing it was Alliance/Council seeing as how the Terminus region doesn't really strike me as technologically superior. Also, how is it that all of a sudden in the two years that Shepard was dead the entire galaxy(even he terminus systems) has "upgraded" every single weapon to the new format. Also, in another mysterious galactic marvel all of the older weapons that everyone in the galaxy used before have now disappeared completely. That is one very hard pill to swallow.



Oh and let's not forget the Collectors who live in the Galactic Core very rarely interact with anyone and have their own technology and weapons from the Reapers just happen to drop thermal clips as well when killed......ROFL!

[JKoopman]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

But there is an overheat mechanic.

The cool down mechanic is what was replaced with ejectable heat sinks.

An ammo mechanic by any other name is still an ammo mechanic. If it functioned like a hybrid system and the thermal clips could actually cool down if you chose not to eject them, it would be believable as the codex describes it. Instead they just function as, for all intents and purposes, bullets.

Modifié par JKoopman, 19 janvier 2011 - 07:53 .

[JKoopman]

Dazaster Dellus wrote...

Also, how is it that all of a sudden in the two years that Shepard was dead the entire galaxy(even he terminus systems) has "upgraded" every single weapon to the new format. Also, in another mysterious galactic marvel all of the older weapons that everyone in the galaxy used before have now disappeared completely. That is one very hard pill to swallow.

The logical answer to that is that they didn't. Convincing Shepard that the entire galaxy adopted a new weapon system in the 2 years he was out was simply a practical joke; the galactic equivalent of writing PENIS on his face while he was asleep. Everyone else is still using the old-style weapons, as attested by the fact that no one else but Shepard ever runs out of thermal clips in their weapons. Shepard is the only person who's using thermal clip weaponry, and everyone else is secretly laughing at him for it.

Modifié par JKoopman, 19 janvier 2011 - 08:06 .

[Praetor Knight]

JKoopman wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

But there is an overheat mechanic.

The cool down mechanic is what was replaced with ejectable heat sinks.

An ammo mechanic by any other name is still an ammo mechanic. If it functioned like a hybrid system and the thermal clips could actually cool down if you chose not to eject them, it would be believable as the codex describes it. Instead they just function as, for all intents and purposes, bullets.

Well, for example the Avenger uses one heat sink for 40 shots, the Locust on heat sink for 20, Viper for 12 and so on.

But, I agree that the HUD should never have displayed that info with numbers in the first place.

[Dazaster Dellus]

JKoopman wrote...

Dazaster Dellus wrote...

Also, how is it that all of a sudden in the two years that Shepard was dead the entire galaxy(even he terminus systems) has "upgraded" every single weapon to the new format. Also, in another mysterious galactic marvel all of the older weapons that everyone in the galaxy used before have now disappeared completely. That is one very hard pill to swallow.

The logical answer to that is that they didn't. Convincing Shepard that the entire galaxy adopted a new weapon system in the 2 years he was out was simply a practical joke; the galactic equivalent of writing PENIS on his face while he was asleep. Everyone else is still using the old-style weapons, as attested by the fact that no one else but Shepard ever runs out of thermal clips in their weapons. Shepard is the only person who's using thermal clip weaponry, and everyone else is secretly laughing at him for it.

lol

[Praetor Knight]

JKoopman wrote...

Dazaster Dellus wrote...

Also, how is it that all of a sudden in the two years that Shepard was dead the entire galaxy(even he terminus systems) has "upgraded" every single weapon to the new format. Also, in another mysterious galactic marvel all of the older weapons that everyone in the galaxy used before have now disappeared completely. That is one very hard pill to swallow.

The logical answer to that is that they didn't. Convincing Shepard that the entire galaxy adopted a new weapon system in the 2 years he was out was simply a practical joke; the galactic equivalent of writing PENIS on his face while he was asleep. Everyone else is still using the old-style weapons, as attested by the fact that no one else but Shepard ever runs out of thermal clips in their weapons. Shepard is the only person who's using thermal clip weaponry, and everyone else is secretly laughing at him for it.

IMHO, it is not a new weapon system, old weapons were retrofitted with a change in the heat sink function.

All that would need to be replaced is the heat sink system between ME and ME2, so the two systems likely fit in the same spot in the weapons. So I assume that the external display and controls on the weapons should remain the same after the retrofit.

Also ME2 gives examples of old weapons that have gone through the retrofit, the Mattock and Locust in particular.

Maybe a decent analogy is it would be like replacing a semi-auto trigger mechanism with a full-auto trigger mechanism in a weapon. So the weapon should not be any more difficult to operate after the modification.

So it should not be that hard for Shepard to pick up on the new feature of ejecting the spent heat sink to load in a fresh one. Especially as an N7 trained marine with plenty of experience with heat sinks already.

[Destructo-Bot]

JKoopman wrote...
I could turn on Immunity and just charge into a firefight without any thought or planning? Again, that's an argument against unbalanced abilities, and isn't even applicable as ME2 got rid of it

Actually the Vangaurd's Charge Ability is the new Immunity. As long as you keep spamming charge, you don't die. I've done three run throughs with a Vangaurd on Insanity so I do have experience with it. On any level less than insanity you can charge into a group and you are basically invincible the entire time.

Edit: I'm a shooter fan, and I like the heat mechanic from ME1. I played Quake3 on a damn high level, and that is as hardcore shooter as you are going to get. It was different, felt sci-fi. The clips aren't BAD, but they aren't special either.

Modifié par Destructo-Bot, 19 janvier 2011 - 10:29 .

[FOZ289]

Who the hell cares about realism in games? Because faster-than-light travel is realistic. An alien species identical to human females aside from skin color and the back of their head is totally realistic. "It's not realistic" is one of the stupidest complaints I've ever heard for any game other than one already based solidly in realism, which Mass Effect most definitely is not.



Thermal clips function identical to ammo. That's all it is. The first game's "ammo" system was unique, but apparently we can't be having that in ME2. The guns don't "overheat," they run out of ammo. If you fire a gun for 5 rounds and it stays constantly overheated, that's a pretty lousy gun. It's just such a half-baked explanation for switching to a dull, conventional ammo system.

[Felfenix]

Complaining that you have to be accurate and make wise decisions with your weapons is like complaining you can't faceroll through DAO naked. "BUT I WANT THE CHOICE TO PLAY BAD AND BE A NAKED PARTY OF WARRIORS!!!"

[JKoopman]

Felfenix wrote...

Complaining that you have to be accurate and make wise decisions with your weapons is like complaining you can't faceroll through DAO naked. "BUT I WANT THE CHOICE TO PLAY BAD AND BE A NAKED PARTY OF WARRIORS!!!"

Who's complaining? I'm just saying it's not "tactical" to be accurate with a rifle.

Nice attempt at a straw man though.

[HyperLimited]

I sort of love/hate the ammo system. My only gripe is that some weapons barely have the adequate amount of ammunition for any usefulness, and for these weapons every shot must count.

[Felfenix]

JKoopman wrote...

Felfenix wrote...

Complaining that you have to be accurate and make wise decisions with your weapons is like complaining you can't faceroll through DAO naked. "BUT I WANT THE CHOICE TO PLAY BAD AND BE A NAKED PARTY OF WARRIORS!!!"

Who's complaining? I'm just saying it's not "tactical" to be accurate with a rifle.

Nice attempt at a straw man though.

JKoopman wrote...

Forcing the player to
aim more accurately or else run out of ammunition for his weapons does
not make a game more "tactical". It simply makes it appeal more to
generic shooter fans.

JKoopman wrote...

Exactly. Choice. I have no choice in ME2. It was fun in ME1 when I could choose to play a sniper-exclusive Infiltrator and only switch to my pistol in CQB.

JKoopman wrote...

Who's complaining? I'm just saying it's not "tactical" to be accurate with a rifle.

Nice attempt at a straw man though.

JKoopman wrote...



Forcing the player to
aim more accurately or else run out of ammunition for his weapons does
not make a game more "tactical". It simply makes it appeal more to
generic shooter fans.

Try complaining less, and reading your own posts more?

Modifié par Felfenix, 20 janvier 2011 - 02:16 .

[expanding panic]

Destructo-Bot wrote...


Actually the Vangaurd's Charge Ability is the new Immunity. As long as you keep spamming charge, you don't die. I've done three run throughs with a Vangaurd on Insanity so I do have experience with it. On any level less than insanity you can charge into a group and you are basically invincible the entire time.

When you say charge into a group, how big is the group your charging into? Because I played as the vangaurd a few times (It's my favorite class.) and if I go charging into a group more then 3 I die. Even whem I use champion and Charge both being maxed out. 

[expanding panic]

JKoopman wrote...

Dazaster Dellus wrote...

Also, how is it that all of a sudden in the two years that Shepard was dead the entire galaxy(even he terminus systems) has "upgraded" every single weapon to the new format. Also, in another mysterious galactic marvel all of the older weapons that everyone in the galaxy used before have now disappeared completely. That is one very hard pill to swallow.

The logical answer to that is that they didn't. Convincing Shepard that the entire galaxy adopted a new weapon system in the 2 years he was out was simply a practical joke; the galactic equivalent of writing PENIS on his face while he was asleep. Everyone else is still using the old-style weapons, as attested by the fact that no one else but Shepard ever runs out of thermal clips in their weapons. Shepard is the only person who's using thermal clip weaponry, and everyone else is secretly laughing at him for it.

Or.... And this is just my theory I could be wrong. But it's just a video game. The reason the whole galaxy has moved onto the new weapon system in a mere 2 year is because that is what the designers of the game decided on.  Just a thought I could be wrong. 

Your acting like it's real life. And yea the whole realism argument will pop up and all that I get that and I'm one for realism too. If it's to far out there I won't play the game. However with that said I am favor the thermal clips so I'm happy with the Me2 system.

[JKoopman]

Felfenix wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Felfenix wrote...

Complaining that you have to be accurate and make wise decisions with your weapons is like complaining you can't faceroll through DAO naked. "BUT I WANT THE CHOICE TO PLAY BAD AND BE A NAKED PARTY OF WARRIORS!!!"

Who's complaining? I'm just saying it's not "tactical" to be accurate with a rifle.

Nice attempt at a straw man though.

JKoopman wrote...

Forcing the player to
aim more accurately or else run out of ammunition for his weapons does not make a game more "tactical". It simply makes it appeal more to generic shooter fans.

JKoopman wrote...

Exactly. Choice. I have no choice in ME2. It was fun in ME1 when I could choose to play a sniper-exclusive Infiltrator and only switch to my pistol in CQB.

Try complaining less, and reading your own posts more?

Congratulations. To refute my statement that I'm not complaining about being inaccurate and am simply pointing out that aiming more accurately does not make a game "tactical", you quote me saying that forcing a player to aim more accurately does not make a game more "tactical" and that I enjoy using sniper rifles for everything but close-quarters combat.

An argumentative wizard is you.

Perhaps you should take your own advice and actually read the things you've quoted?

[Felfenix]

Maybe if you turned on your brain and aimed, or thought about what guns you used, you wouldn't run out of ammo? Complaining that the game punishes you for playing with your brain turned off is your problem. Using one gun and complaining it doesn't work out in ME2 is like complaining DAO isn't tactical because you have to min/max or micromanage your party.

[JKoopman]

Felfenix wrote...

Maybe if you turned on your brain and aimed, or thought about what guns you used, you wouldn't run out of ammo? Complaining that the game punishes you for playing with your brain turned off is your problem. Using one gun and complaining it doesn't work out in ME2 is like complaining DAO isn't tactical because you have to min/max or micromanage your party.

"Turning on my brain and aiming" doesn't mean much when I'm facing down 8 Mercs and a YMIR mech at long range. It's pretty much a foregone conclussion that I'm going to run out of clips in my sniper rifle before that battle is over, especially on Hardcore or Insanity. So yes, I'm forced quite regularly to use a weapon that I don't like for no other reason than because I've run out of ammo through no fault of my own and the only spare clips are 100 yards downrange.

Now drop the attitude and calm the hell down.

Modifié par JKoopman, 20 janvier 2011 - 05:01 .

[Felfenix]

JKoopman wrote...

Felfenix wrote...

Maybe if you turned on your brain and aimed, or thought about what guns you used, you wouldn't run out of ammo? Complaining that the game punishes you for playing with your brain turned off is your problem. Using one gun and complaining it doesn't work out in ME2 is like complaining DAO isn't tactical because you have to min/max or micromanage your party.

"Turning on my brain and aiming" doesn't mean much when I'm facing down 8 Mercs and a YMIR mech at long range. It's pretty much a foregone conclussion that I'm going to run out of clips in my sniper rifle before that battle is over. So yes, I'm forced quite regularly to use a weapon that I don't like for no other reason than because I've run out of ammo through no fault of my own and the only spare clips are 100 yards downrange.

Now drop the attitude and calm the hell down.

OK, internet tough guy.

Go complain on the DAO forums that your naked unarmed warrior isn't as effective. "Why isn't my playstyle just as effective as anyone else's?" You want to be able to win the game easily regardless of what you do, and if casual difficulty isn't enough for you, then the problem is you. The weapons have an ammo limitation for a reason, to make you either take the risk or seeking out ammo / moving around the battlefield or making use of your full arsenal instead of equipping your sniper rifle and rolling your face on the keyboard. If you run out of ammo, it's your own fault for not playing tactically.

[JKoopman]

Felfenix wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Felfenix wrote...

Maybe if you turned on your brain and aimed, or thought about what guns you used, you wouldn't run out of ammo? Complaining that the game punishes you for playing with your brain turned off is your problem. Using one gun and complaining it doesn't work out in ME2 is like complaining DAO isn't tactical because you have to min/max or micromanage your party.

"Turning on my brain and aiming" doesn't mean much when I'm facing down 8 Mercs and a YMIR mech at long range. It's pretty much a foregone conclussion that I'm going to run out of clips in my sniper rifle before that battle is over. So yes, I'm forced quite regularly to use a weapon that I don't like for no other reason than because I've run out of ammo through no fault of my own and the only spare clips are 100 yards downrange.

Now drop the attitude and calm the hell down.

OK, internet tough guy.

Go complain on the DAO forums that your naked unarmed warrior isn't as effective. "Why isn't my playstyle just as effective as anyone else's?" You want to be able to win the game easily regardless of what you do, and if casual difficulty isn't enough for you, then the problem is you. The weapons have an ammo limitation for a reason, to make you either take the risk or seeking out ammo / moving around the battlefield or making use of your full arsenal instead of equipping your sniper rifle and rolling your face on the keyboard. If you run out of ammo, it's your own fault for not playing tactically.

Internet tough guy, says the one throwing insults around anonymously on a message board.

Total straw man argument, again. If I hadn't been allowed to use a sniper rifle exclusively in ME1 and therefor set a character precedent as a sniper, I wouldn't feel the need to complain about the fact that my character now spends 90% of the game with an SMG.

To use your oh-so-clever example, that would be like if you were perfectly able to play through DA:O as a naked monk character who beats enemies to death with his fists and suddenly in DA:O2 they change it so that your character can no longer unequip weapons and you're required to wear platemail at all times. Kinda wrecks your character concept, doesn't it?

Modifié par JKoopman, 20 janvier 2011 - 05:19 .