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can rogues still use long swords?


54 réponses à ce sujet

#26
Seb Hanlon

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Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

Oh...nothing says class-handicap quite like class weapon limitations. I guess a rogue didn't invent a black jack in the world of Thedas? Hopefully rogue Hawke doesn't get captured and is forced into the situation of using an impromptu weapon or his/her hands.

Rogue Hawke: "Eww, a club, I could never use such a dreadful thing to escape with, I sure hope we come across some daggers! I can only use daggers even in dire situations of survival. What is that...a long sword? Omg...never! I'll just punch them instead and do my artful backflip animations. Yippee!"


Thankfully, all classes still have access to the Murder Knife for use in getting out of just such a tight spot. You don't want to know where Hawke keeps it.

#27
Edge2177

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Ah well I'm a fan of the longsword/dagger combo. Always have been. Will be sad if I have to go dagger 24/7.

#28
TheMadCat

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HolyAvenger wrote...

It never made sense to me that you could dual-wield longswords anyway. Those things are freaking heavy and big, and the biomechanics of dual-wielding those...seems unlikely. You should be able to go the longsword/shortsword or longsword/dagger combo tho. Shame they took it out.


Nah, long swords are actually pretty light, most only weighing about 3 pounds, those of high quality could get under 2 pounds. 

#29
TransientNomad

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Weight really never is the issue, its the awkwardness of using two at a time. Using a sword of such length, lets say two and a half feet, it throws off your center of gravity and you have to compensate for it. That is essentially half of what being a swordman is about. You equip two swords at once and you'll find that you are seriously out of wack.



A sword/shield combo works since you have the counter balance of the shield which also serves as a sort of a anchor. A sword/dagger combo essentially works the same way, but the fighting style isn't what people percieve it to be. Often you use your dagger equipped arm the same way you might use a shield (tucked back or to the side), only using it to thrust should you opponent get past your swords reach.



You couldn't do that with two longswords.... well you COULD but you wouldn't be fighting efficiently. You would find that you will only be attacking with one sword at a time since if you flail about with both at once, odds are you would only manage to cut your own arm off. Also, since you effectively extended the length of your arm, it takes more work to move it, (think pull x Resistence) hence it will cause fatigue much quicker than more efficient styles.



Course this IS fantasy game, anything is possible, but just FYI if you were interested.

#30
TheMadCat

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Eh, I've seen people use two long swords a couple of times in non-choreographed spars (Hardly the same as actual combat though since you have to show restraint). Kind of mixed results, they'd keep the blade in their off hand running horizontally across their waist and the blade in their strong hand extended out slightly above the shoulder, using both in a defensive and offensive capacity, one for a high/mid and the other for a mid/low. If you're coordinated enough it seemed like it could be effective, though I don't see much use for it on an actual battlefield. One of those things you'll never see out side of a duel because there are so many more effective ways to fight. More show then practicality.

Modifié par TheMadCat, 18 janvier 2011 - 08:34 .


#31
0x30A88

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Another weapon "rejectets hand as maker's (Bioware's) will" - I'm getting tired of those.

#32
BTCentral

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Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

Oh...nothing says class-handicap quite like class weapon limitations.

Wait... that was sarcasm right?

If not, how about the re-introduction of Rogues being able to "fake it" well enough with magical items to be able to use them.
Because it's not like Rogues aren't OP'd enough already, we should have magic too.

:devil:

Modifié par BTCentral, 18 janvier 2011 - 10:21 .


#33
Ryllen Laerth Kriel

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It was a slightly snarky comment but there's some honesty in it too. I just think restricting weapons to a class has no validity whatsoever, it's a restriction to somehow make warriors get some sleep at night and feel like a delicate, unique snowflake since they can use so many weapons.


Now, from a lore perspective, it would make sense for warriors to be able to use most of the martial weapons because not everyone can just pick up a sword and use it effectively. However, there are some basic weapons rogues are missing out on like clubs, shields, maces, flails, spears, quarterstaves, darts, ect. Perhaps a restriction could be made on "how well" a rogue could use these weapons to balance things or warriors could simply have more benefits with the more specialized weapons.


And I actually liked the Use Magic Devices skill in games like NWN for rogues. I don't think it was unbalanced because I never really tried to powergame a character. UMD would make alot more sense with scrolls than it would with every item. Scrolls usually would describe the spell, the components needs and whatever vocal components would be required too, kind of like baking a very flashy, cake...except it's really a fireball that kills your enemies. Reading a scroll shouldn't be too hard then. But using a wand our a specialist item like a wizard robe with inherent magical powers without instruction is where a skill like UMD lacks plausability to me.


P.S. I wish game developers wouldn't agonize so much about class balance in single player games. If one class is hugely overpowered to the point others are worthless then it's an issue...but I end up playing all class types in roleplaying games generally because I want to play a character from that roleplaying perspective, no matter the class balance. One of my characters in the Baldur's Gate games was a bard...yeah, 2nd edition bard, that says it all. Posted Image

Modifié par Ryllen Laerth Kriel, 19 janvier 2011 - 06:59 .


#34
Guitar-Hero

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Maria Caliban wrote...

Osena109 wrote...

 I know there Stream lined the class's like warriors cant use Daul weapons or Bows  but i can't find if rouges can use long swords or not


No.

They can use daggers that are the length of some short swords, however.

Seb Hanlon wrote...

Dual-wielding rogues can equip weapons classified as "daggers" of various shapes and sizes.


Why not call them light blades? They're longer than real world daggers.

Dagger is shorthand for 'too wimpy to be a sword.'


Yeah or just short swords, or give new meaning to the word blades, as in there are swords(long and pointy) and blades(short and stabby) and Dagger (light and whimpy)

#35
Guest_Dalira Montanti_*

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I hope they can still use long swords I personally found the daggers did less damage than swords at one point

#36
Nial Black-Knee

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First off, daggers can have blades up to 12" long or longer. Short swords, (though the term is over used) tend to be anything with between 12" and 24" blades. But there is no die hard rule per se.



Second: Frack, no long sword for Rogues? So my DA:O rogue can use one, but in the same timeline my DA2 rogue can't?



What is up with all the new restrictions? In most sequels you get more stuff. It seems BW wants to buck the trend and take away things/ abilities in it's sequels.



Stay tuned for DA3 where rogues are limited to wielding dual butter knives.

#37
Mykel54

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This are disappoiting news, i always disliked dagger rogues (they look very silly to me, along with invisibility) and this will only make me never to roll a melee rogue in DA2. In DAO i had a sword/dagger warrior that i enjoyed, but now that dual wield is restricted to rogues, AND you removed swords from rogues, i will definitely not play a dual wield dagger character. This is just pointless restriction taken to the limit.

#38
KennethAFTopp

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Yes I am not a fan of this.

#39
Rylor Tormtor

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Seb Hanlon wrote...

Dual-wielding rogues can equip weapons classified as "daggers" of various shapes and sizes.


Le sigh

#40
Rylor Tormtor

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Edge2177 wrote...

Ah well I'm a fan of the longsword/dagger combo. Always have been. Will be sad if I have to go dagger 24/7.


Prepare to be sad.

#41
NightmarezAbound

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Okay, can Rogues still use Axes?

#42
Loc'n'lol

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Nial Black-Knee wrote...

What is up with all the new restrictions? In most sequels you get more stuff. It seems BW wants to buck the trend and take away things/ abilities in it's sequels.


Balance. That is how they are making gameplay better in DA2, and the easy way there is to restrict what weapon types each weapon style can use.

For the record, in DAO daggers were generally much much better than swords, let alone axes and maces for autoattack DPS, largely because they would hit 3 times when the sword would hit twice (when dual-wielding), and the bonus to damage from strength and/or dex was minimal (when dual-wielding).

#43
Loc'n'lol

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NightmarezAbound wrote...

Okay, can Rogues still use Axes?


Of course !
Look, it's been 5 months since we've known about it, so maybe you could all stop acting like this is news and read the stickies ?
Rogues can use "daggers" and ranged weapons.
Warriors can use one and two-handed swords, axes and maces.
Mages can only use staves, which can also have a blade on top just because.
And there is absolutely 0 crossover between what weapons different classes can use.

#44
errant_knight

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Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

Oh...nothing says class-handicap quite like class weapon limitations. I guess a rogue didn't invent a black jack in the world of Thedas? Hopefully rogue Hawke doesn't get captured and is forced into the situation of using an impromptu weapon or his/her hands.

Rogue Hawke: "Eww, a club, I could never use such a dreadful thing to escape with, I sure hope we come across some daggers! I can only use daggers even in dire situations of survival. What is that...a long sword? Omg...never! I'll just punch them instead and do my artful backflip animations. Yippee!"


LOL! And I feel the same way about my warrior not being able to pick up a bow. 'Duh...what's this here string doing attached to this stick? Dunno, guess i"ll just run at those guys way over there.... Hey! They got sticks with strings, too! Ow!"

#45
Loc'n'lol

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errant_knight wrote...
LOL! And I feel the same way about my warrior not being able to pick up a bow. 'Duh...what's this here string doing attached to this stick? Dunno, guess i"ll just run at those guys way over there.... Hey! They got sticks with strings, too! Ow!"


That's why they gave you a personal teleporter... :P

#46
Edge2177

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I still like the longsword/dagger combo, which likely won't work from the sound of it. Sniffles.

#47
Edge2177

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Nial Black-Knee wrote...

First off, daggers can have blades up to 12" long or longer. Short swords, (though the term is over used) tend to be anything with between 12" and 24" blades. But there is no die hard rule per se.

Second: Frack, no long sword for Rogues? So my DA:O rogue can use one, but in the same timeline my DA2 rogue can't?

What is up with all the new restrictions? In most sequels you get more stuff. It seems BW wants to buck the trend and take away things/ abilities in it's sequels.

Stay tuned for DA3 where rogues are limited to wielding dual butter knives.


Yeah toast?

#48
GameBoyish

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Seb Hanlon wrote...

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

Oh...nothing says class-handicap quite like class weapon limitations. I guess a rogue didn't invent a black jack in the world of Thedas? Hopefully rogue Hawke doesn't get captured and is forced into the situation of using an impromptu weapon or his/her hands.

Rogue Hawke: "Eww, a club, I could never use such a dreadful thing to escape with, I sure hope we come across some daggers! I can only use daggers even in dire situations of survival. What is that...a long sword? Omg...never! I'll just punch them instead and do my artful backflip animations. Yippee!"


Thankfully, all classes still have access to the Murder Knife for use in getting out of just such a tight spot. You don't want to know where Hawke keeps it.


:o

#49
Bad King

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Maria Caliban wrote...

Seb Hanlon wrote...

Dual-wielding rogues can equip weapons classified as "daggers" of various shapes and sizes.


Why not call them light blades? They're longer than real world daggers.


Because it sounds too much like 'lightsaber'.

Modifié par Bad King, 24 janvier 2011 - 10:29 .


#50
Zaros

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Seb Hanlon wrote...

Dual-wielding rogues can equip weapons classified as "daggers" of various shapes and sizes.


FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

Does this mean having a Rogue who tanks will actually suck now?