591 réponses à ce sujet

[Elhanan]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Unless you're a dwarven Warden, you have to base your actions on what you hear. If Harrowmont's crier is attacking Bhelen for having pro-casteless views and Bhelen's crier is saying that Bhelen will help the casteless, then maybe Bhelen is going to help the casteless.

I base my decision on evidence; not political gossip. Gavorn tries to lie, use false documents, and cheat to gain his master's new position. Camp Harrowmont's camp asks for help; straight up assistance. Not even close....

And if you are not a Dwarven Warden, and you have such a perception of the candidates, choosing Harrowmont as the one easier to control also seems prudent. Also, if you do not seem to care about kinslaying, why care if the Casteless have a bum deal as they offer you nothing? Knowing the outcome appears to be the best motive.

Regardless, Bhelen says he'll give you troops; Harrowmont promises to take the issue up with the Assembly, who could have said no and frakked over the Warden and the need to battle the darkspawn on the surface.

Bhelen tells you what you hope to hear; Harrowmont tells you the truth because as a mere candidate, he does not have the power on his own before being named King. No reason to trust Bhelen, and I rarely even get to this point because of the prior deception.

Modifié par Elhanan, 04 février 2011 - 09:40 .

[LobselVith8]

Elhanan wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Unless you're a dwarven Warden, you have to base your actions on what you hear. If Harrowmont's crier is attacking Bhelen for having pro-casteless views and Bhelen's crier is saying that Bhelen will help the casteless, then maybe Bhelen is going to help the casteless.

I base my decision on evidence; not political gossip. Gavorn tries to lie, use false documents, and cheat to gain his master's new position. Camp Harrowmont's camp asks for help; straight up assistance. Not even close....

And if you are not a Dwarven Warden, and you have such a perception of the candidates, choosing Harrowmont as the one easier to control also seems prudent. Also, if you do not seem to care about kinslaying, why care if the Casteless have a bum deal as they offer you nothing? Knowing the outcome appears to be the best motive.

As an elven mage, my Warden could relate to the plight of the casteless. Why should I side with a bigoted fool who promises to ask permission to send the Warden aid against the Blight and will do nothing for the people of Dust Town when I could give the casteless a chance the elves and mages never will by siding with a canidate who will give them more freedoms and have assurance that the armies will be sent?

Elhanan wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Regardless, Bhelen says he'll give you troops; Harrowmont promises to take the issue up with the Assembly, who could have said no and frakked over the Warden and the need to battle the darkspawn on the surface.

Bhelen tells you what you hope to hear; Harrowmont tells you the truth because as a mere candidate, he does not have the power on his own before being named King. No reason to trust Bhelen, and I rarely even get to this point because of the prior deception.

Bhelen promises to send aid when he is crowned King, while Harrowmont promises to take the issue up with the Assembly. The Warden needs aid, not the promise of requesting aid. The treaty compels the King, not the Assembly, to send the dwarven armies against the Blight, Harrowmont will capitulate, while Bhelen leads.

[Elhanan]

You keep seeing options I never have because you have no problems in dealing with false docs. If you wish to play your Warden as blind to this; fine. I choose another way, and kill Bhelen.

[LobselVith8]

Elhanan wrote...

You keep seeing options I never have because you have no problems in dealing with false docs. If you wish to play your Warden as blind to this; fine. I choose another way, and kill Bhelen.

I prefer dealing with someone who is morally questionable than someone who thinks the casteless deserve no rights or freedoms.

[Augustei]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

You keep seeing options I never have because you have no problems in dealing with false docs. If you wish to play your Warden as blind to this; fine. I choose another way, and kill Bhelen.

I prefer dealing with someone who is morally questionable than someone who thinks the casteless deserve no rights or freedoms.

And how can that be determined besides what 2 criers say? It cant... Im not trusting the fate of Orzamaar to 2 stupid criers.

[Sarah1281]

XxDeonxX wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

You keep seeing options I never have because you have no problems in dealing with false docs. If you wish to play your Warden as blind to this; fine. I choose another way, and kill Bhelen.

I prefer dealing with someone who is morally questionable than someone who thinks the casteless deserve no rights or freedoms.

And how can that be determined besides what 2 criers say? It cant... Im not trusting the fate of Orzamaar to 2 stupid criers.

And why not? They are paid to make their candidate look good and the other look bad. If Bhelen's crier says that Bhelen is awesome because he'll give rights to the casteless and take back land while Harrowmont sucks because he doesn't give a damn about lower castes and will let Orzammar be overrun with darkspawn then maybe you can question that. If Harrowmont's crier confirms this (which he does) by saing that Harrowmong is awesome for upholding proud dwarven traditions - like the caste system - and Bhelen sucks because he'd ignore traditions and draft people for the army then I think it's safe to say that Bhelen is more supportive of the casteless and fighting darkspawn while Harrowmont wants to preserve the status quo.

Two opposing sides willing to say or do whatever it takes to get the throne (well...mostly. Harrowmont seems to draw the line at lying of all things) will not lie for each other to make the other look better. If they both say that one side does something but one portrays this as a positive and another as a negative then why in the world can't you trust that something to be true? You never answer this. Ever.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sarah1281 wrote...
You never answer this. Ever.

You expect him to?
You've said the same thing a dozen times already with no refutals.

[Sarah1281]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
You never answer this. Ever.

You expect him to?
You've said the same thing a dozen times already with no refutals.

It would be nice if he could at least stop using that argument like it can't and hasn't been easily refuted. It really does seem like the pro-Harrowmont 'I had no idea what they stood for!' crowd just doesn't want to be able to see it so that they can feel free to keep picking Harrowmont without their characters knowing what they're doing to Orzammar.

[Elhanan]

Sarah1281 wrote...

YES. We've been over this. If one crier says something, it can be doubted. If the crier for Harrowmont and the crier for Bhelen say the same thing about a candidate (for example: they both agree that Harrowmont is tradition and Bhelen will change things but Harrowmont's side presents the tradition as good and the change as bad and Bhelen's vice versa) then it is going to be true. One crier might be lying to make their candidate look better but why would the rival crier support this lie making their opponent look better? They wouldn't. Do I really need to look up those examples of things we know for sure about the candidates because the criers agree again?

I get the logic of this; just refuse to bank my vote on it. Today it would be like casting my vote on a good persuasive political commercial, when I could care less because that candidate's campaign cheats, lies, and murders; not gonna occur.

[Elhanan]

LobselVith8 wrote...

I prefer dealing with someone who is morally questionable than someone who thinks the casteless deserve no rights or freedoms.

So you choose your moral high ground candidate one way; I select mine. Yours has blood on his hands; mine never gets the chance.

Modifié par Elhanan, 04 février 2011 - 05:48 .

[LobselVith8]

Elhanan wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I prefer dealing with someone who is morally questionable than someone who thinks the casteless deserve no rights or freedoms.

So you choose your moral high ground candidate one way; I select mine. Yours has blood on his hands; mine never gets the chance.

I find it odd that you would say that when, even without golems, Harrowmont's policies cause the casteless to suffer. Every baby left in the Deep Roads and every noble hunter is going to be laid at your feet for choosing a politician who will do nothing for the people of Dust Town.

[Elhanan]

LobselVith8 wrote...

I find it odd that you would say that when, even without golems, Harrowmont's policies cause the casteless to suffer. Every baby left in the Deep Roads and every noble hunter is going to be laid at your feet for choosing a politician who will do nothing for the people of Dust Town.

Nope. As noted elsewhere, I have alternate notions for post-epilogue play.

As for the epilogues, I can be disappointed in Harrowmont not being more willing to engage social injustice, but am willing to allow him the opportunity.

[Giggles_Manically]

Elhanan wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I find it odd that you would say that when, even without golems, Harrowmont's policies cause the casteless to suffer. Every baby left in the Deep Roads and every noble hunter is going to be laid at your feet for choosing a politician who will do nothing for the people of Dust Town.

Nope. As noted elsewhere, I have alternate notions for post-epilogue play.

As for the epilogues, I can be disappointed in Harrowmont not being more willing to engage social injustice, but am willing to allow him the opportunity.

:wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard:


:wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard::wizard:

[Elhanan]

Twas indeed!

No more Bhelen, law and order appears, new reps come forward for the Assembly after a temp disbanding, reform for the Casteless, trade with the surface, and Dwarven archers become more common than ever! And the Aeducan clan eventaully gives way eventually to Clan McJagger....

Modifié par Elhanan, 05 février 2011 - 08:06 .

[LobselVith8]

Elhanan wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I find it odd that you would say that when, even without golems, Harrowmont's policies cause the casteless to suffer. Every baby left in the Deep Roads and every noble hunter is going to be laid at your feet for choosing a politician who will do nothing for the people of Dust Town.

Nope. As noted elsewhere, I have alternate notions for post-epilogue play.

As for the epilogues, I can be disappointed in Harrowmont not being more willing to engage social injustice, but am willing to allow him the opportunity.

And why would the Assembly vote you into power when it clearly shows that people are fighting over the throne, potentially leading to the same type of civil war that seems close to errupting when the Warden originally arrives at Orzammar? Why would Bhelen's supporters support you? Why would the people who want power for themselves support you? All Harrowmont accomplishes is isolating Orzammar from the surface, and does nothing to take back the lost thaigs or deal with the darkspawn threat. You've yet to provide a reason why the members of the Assembly are going to support you and forgo their own ambitions for the throne.

Also, Harrowmont supports social injustice - which we see when he has the golems and uses them to keep the casteless in poverty and misery - in fact, murdering everyone in Dust Town.

[Elhanan]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Also, Harrowmont supports social injustice - which we see when he has the golems and uses them to keep the casteless in poverty and misery - in fact, murdering everyone in Dust Town.

Have not seen this; never done it. And to those who have *tsk; tsk*....

[Augustei]

Elhanan wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Also, Harrowmont supports social injustice - which we see when he has the golems and uses them to keep the casteless in poverty and misery - in fact, murdering everyone in Dust Town.

Have not seen this; never done it. And to those who have *tsk; tsk*....

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