141 réponses à ce sujet

[HBC Dresden]

I don't know....



This reminds me of that ME1 side quest where you can give up that dead soldier's body to the Alliance so they can develop better armor or whatever to withstand geth weapons. My Shep let the Alliance keep it, she was dead, plus it can save lives.



In ME2, if you gave the body back to her husband, you got a nice email. If you gave it to the Alliance, you got nothing. Then I found out there was a news report cut from the game where they say the Alliance developed weapon upgrades, a response to this side quest.



So my big issue is whether or not BioWare will implement this decision in ME3.

[wizardryforever]

The logic behind continuing Project Overlord just seems flawed to me.  You're saying that this project may save millions of lives in a war that may or may not happen.  Basing an atrocity on two levels of uncertainty like this doesn't make sense.  Not only do we have no evidence to support the need for it, we have no evidence that it will even be effective.  And for this we torture an innocent man and sacrifice whole teams of personnel?  Does no on else see this?

Even if Legion is being deceptive, and the Geth are planning something involving organics, do you really think the experiments of Overlord will remain hidden from them?  I would think that the Geth would interpret such experiments as the prelude to an attack against them, and this would be like making one's fears come true by attempting to prevent them.  The experiments are provocative towards the Geth, not to mention morally ambiguous at best and downright monstrous at worst.  What do they think is going to happen when the Geth find out?  How do they think the Geth will react?  Do they think negotiations can continue once this occurs?

My point is that performing experiments like this is only something you do as a last resort, not a peacetime experiment to stop someone who may not even be an enemy.

[Omega-202]

@ Dresden

In any way that matters? Probably not. Project Overlord's ending will probably have a near ZERO impact while settling a peace between the Quarian and Geth seems likely and large.
I still remember pre-ME2 when people were speculating that letting Bahtia's body stay with the Alliance might give you an upgrade against the Geth in ME2. How did that turn out again? As you said, an email or a cut news report, both of which did exactly nothing overall.
So it comes back to what I was saying before: KNOW BIOWARE. Know what they will and won't have matter. Realize that the decision in Overlord will have less of an impact than your actions toward peace/war in ME2/3. Realize that Legion is not lying, that a promise of peace is genuine and that even if Overlord does make a difference toward a new way to fight the Geth, it won't be the only way to solve the issue.
Not gaining Legion's loyalty, provoking the Quarians to war or simply keeping silent and allowing Overlord to continue will probably lead to a worse outcome than the exact opposite. That's just how BioWare does things.

Modifié par Omega-202, 20 janvier 2011 - 10:09 .

[Locutus_of_BORG]

I haven't once left David in the machine yet... but then again, I've befriended the true Geth every time so far.





Off topic a bit: does blowing up those cameras oround Aite do anything, or am I just wasting ammo on destructible doodads?

[Exile Isan]

I have issues with the whole project to begin with. Call me a geth sympathizer (and I was even back in ME1) but I don't like the idea of someone trying "overlord" them. They are a sapient race (to me at least) and deserve their freedom whether they are hostile to organics or not. What right does Cerberus or anyone else have to enslave them? Or to use them as tools the way the Reapers and the quarians did? Honestly Project Overlord is no better than Daro'Xen who wants to reclaim them as a slave race to "their rightful masters".

I also question Dr. Archer's motives. It honestly feels to me that he was more insterested in his own career with Cerberus than any altruistic motives he claims to have and he certainly was not interested in the welfare of his brother.  As somebody mentioned earlier he's not honest with you about how David came to be the "virus" right from the beginning, claiming it an accident even after you see his brother inside the machine. Yes, indeed, spike driven through his arms are certainly an "accident." Dr. Archer's lack of security control also gripes me.

I also have to ask did Dr. Archer tell TIM about the fact that David could speak to the Geth? Wouldn't that have been enough results for TIM to keep the project going at least a little longer without the need of the machine?

Modifié par Exile Isan, 20 janvier 2011 - 10:15 .

[Joey245]

As a brother to two autistic boys, and having a type of autism myself (Aspergers Syndrome, not that you cared), what was done to David Archer is simply inexcusable.



Also, as others have said, if the true geth don't want war with organics, then there's no real reason to need to control them. So the project is futile.



But mostly because I refuse to hide behind statistics and hypotheticals. If an atrocity is needed to reach an otherwise unreachable goal, then forget it. If we acquire the impossible, but lose our souls, what do we gain in the end?

[james1976]

I wanted the option to shoot the guy who put him in the device.

[omgodzilla]

I always leave him there because I enjoy being a douche in video games and the project might have beneficial results in ME3. Saving him doesn't really sound like it would help me at all.

[Omega-202]

omgodzilla wrote...

I always leave him there because I enjoy being a douche in video games and the project might have beneficial results in ME3. Saving him doesn't really sound like it would help me at all.

You mean like the beneficial results we got for keeping Bahtia's wife's body?  Or the benefits from saving the L2 biotics representative?  Or the benefits we got from saving the hostages in Bring Down the Sky?  Or the benefits from handing over the Cerberus data to the Shadow Broker?  All seemingly beneficial choices in ME 1 that we either only got an Email about or were never even mentioned.  

Honestly, I doubt Overlord will matter and if it does, choosing to leave it running is not going to lead to the best ending.  

[Dean_the_Young]

Omega-202 wrote...

But again, this is a BioWare game. If Legion says its so, its so. BioWare doesn't have characters like him lie to you in conversations that you have to dig into in order to even access.
So then it comes down to a conditional:
-IF you retain Legion's loyalty, THEN the Geth are non-hostile

For now.

Three years ago, the Geth were also non hostile. Two years ago, a significant fraction of them concluded that genocide of the humans, a race they had no grievance against or harm from, was a good idea.

-IF you encourage the Quarian's to settle a peace with the Geth, THEN a massive war is averted

Proof being?

Shepard is one man, and an alien at that, and two of the sitting Admirals still favor war regardless, and can still cause a war regardless. Shepard's wording may well be window dressing come ME3: does anyone who believe the game-context of Shepard being given a choice to have a say truly believe that ME3 will forego a recruitment mission with combat of ending the Geth/Quarian conflict regardless?

-IF both previous conditions are met, THEN Project Overlord is a useless endeavor

In what respect? Certainly when Overlord was comissioned and carried out, there was no sign anywhere of any Geth factional split: Overlord might be have been a tragic cost, but it served a valid and real need (defense against still hostile, genocidal Geth). While future knowledge may sometimes invalidate the premise of past actions, future knowledge can't be a basis of evaluating the worth of past actions. We do not, for example, deem emergency drills and preparations useless even when the emergency does not come to pass: the point of them is that an emergency could have occured, and the actions to mitigate the possibility were useful and right.

Certainly the Geth non-hostility is neither promised to be permanent nor peace guaranteed even in the non-existence of such a promise. The Geth may in the future change their mind again about peace: other species (and the Council) may deem the Geth's mega-project too dangerous, and trigger a war in which the best result would not be a geth victory. Even when reduced, war remains a plausible possibility.

And while we consider the choice, we should also take into consideration Cerberus's own priorities in making our own decision on the matter as well: they are as much a party to this as the geth. Whether war is likely or not, Cerberus will pursue avenues of mitigating such threats. With the proof of concept in Overlord, Cerberus has seen such an avenue, and know it can be re-created. They will pursue it, with or without David. There is never any suggestion they will give up, and the post-mission email in the context only says the work is delayed by decades, not impossible. Cerberus will continue the work, and if not David they will look to and through as many others like him until they can make progress. The Project, and the use of people like David, will not end with David's departure. How many more, however, can be influenced by Shepard.

We're not talking about the radical set of events that could happen if we're being lied to or if the Geth all of a sudden change their mind. We're talking about how it would work in the Mass Effect storyline. You have to be aware that it is a STORY after all. Just as we have to ignore the fact that the Forest Moon of Endor would have been a smoldering pile of ash at the end of SW Episode 6, we also have to dismiss the fact that a happy ending is unobtainable. Also, just like the end of ME1 where any person's instincts would say "Focus on Sovereign" to make sure the Reaper threat isn't released, any past BioWare fan would realize that saving the Council wouldn't lead to a big "GAME OVER" screen.

So... not only metagaming, but short-sighted metagaming at that?

BioWare ALWAYS gives us a way to settle the differences and attain a peace. That's just how they do things. Overlord is useless if we follow the full Paragon path for all other related storylines.

Actually, Bioware doesn't always do that. Dragon Age has multiple occassions where conflict is, at best, only delayed for a time. Nothing to date promises permanent paragon resolutions of such matters as the Krogan and the genophage cure, and ME3 as a story is nearly guaranteed to give us a story mission with combat in the context of a Quarian/Geth resolution.

[Dean_the_Young]

wizardryforever wrote...

The logic behind continuing Project Overlord just seems flawed to me.  You're saying that this project may save millions of lives in a war that may or may not happen.  Basing an atrocity on two levels of uncertainty like this doesn't make sense.  Not only do we have no evidence to support the need for it, we have no evidence that it will even be effective.  And for this we torture an innocent man and sacrifice whole teams of personnel?  Does no on else see this?

No, likely for the reason that that didn't occur as you portray it. It tends to be hard to see things that don't exist.

Besides the fact that there was no sacrifice whole teams (it was a project disaster, not a black magic), and besides the scope and scale of the atrocity itself (every faction in the game has done far more for far less: David remains just one person), besides two years and multiple genocide attempts by Geth as evidence of need for means to stop the Geth, we do have evidence it will be effective. The David-VI was able to control Geth.

The idea that past costs invalidate a decision now is an aspect of the sunk-cost fallacy. Nothing you do will bring those people back to life, whether you forestall the project or not.


(Not preparing for such a potent dissaster of a war has rarely been in and of itself a successful policy in any context: the only thing that makes a war less bad is not losing it, not not preparing in case it occurs.)

Even if Legion is being deceptive, and the Geth are planning something involving organics, do you really think the experiments of Overlord will remain hidden from them?  I would think that the Geth would interpret such experiments as the prelude to an attack against them, and this would be like making one's fears come true by attempting to prevent them.  The experiments are provocative towards the Geth, not to mention morally ambiguous at best and downright monstrous at worst.  What do they think is going to happen when the Geth find out?  How do they think the Geth will react?  Do they think negotiations can continue once this occurs?

Which rather proves the need for a counter, if they can't understand why Organics would need and seek one in face of Geth actions and history.

The Geth have never made any attempt to make any type of contact with the Galaxy of any sort, and have continually (and lethally) ended all attempts from us to establish any raport to build trust and security, or even communication. Geth have always killed all ambassadors and diplomatic missions. Geth who claim to be uninvolved never made any attempt to stop other Geth when they chose to go out on a genocidal war of conquest, nor even made the most elementary, basic, attempts to communicate with the Organic races even to let them know of any such division in the first place. Even the 'good' Geth stood by, watched Heretics kill Organics, and did nothing to alleviate any concern of the Organic races.


To be perfectly frank? The True Geth aren't equal actors. Until they build up a substantial amount of proof of trustworthiness, every other actor has a valid right to be worried about them and to build defenses against them.

My point is that performing experiments like this is only something you do as a last resort, not a peacetime experiment to stop someone who may not even be an enemy.

You realize that the war against the Geth still continues up until the point Shepard viruses the Heretics, including sporadic attempts to wipe out entire colonies that would succede if Shepard weren't there?

There isn't peace. Only a slowdown in the fighting.

[wizardryforever]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

The logic behind continuing Project Overlord just seems flawed to me.  You're saying that this project may save millions of lives in a war that may or may not happen.  Basing an atrocity on two levels of uncertainty like this doesn't make sense.  Not only do we have no evidence to support the need for it, we have no evidence that it will even be effective.  And for this we torture an innocent man and sacrifice whole teams of personnel?  Does no on else see this?

No, likely for the reason that that didn't occur as you portray it. It tends to be hard to see things that don't exist.

Besides the fact that there was no sacrifice whole teams (it was a project disaster, not a black magic), and besides the scope and scale of the atrocity itself (every faction in the game has done far more for far less: David remains just one person), besides two years and multiple genocide attempts by Geth as evidence of need for means to stop the Geth, we do have evidence it will be effective. The David-VI was able to control Geth.

The idea that past costs invalidate a decision now is an aspect of the sunk-cost fallacy. Nothing you do will bring those people back to life, whether you forestall the project or not.


(Not preparing for such a potent dissaster of a war has rarely been in and of itself a successful policy in any context: the only thing that makes a war less bad is not losing it, not not preparing in case it occurs.)

Even if Legion is being deceptive, and the Geth are planning something involving organics, do you really think the experiments of Overlord will remain hidden from them?  I would think that the Geth would interpret such experiments as the prelude to an attack against them, and this would be like making one's fears come true by attempting to prevent them.  The experiments are provocative towards the Geth, not to mention morally ambiguous at best and downright monstrous at worst.  What do they think is going to happen when the Geth find out?  How do they think the Geth will react?  Do they think negotiations can continue once this occurs?

Which rather proves the need for a counter, if they can't understand why Organics would need and seek one in face of Geth actions and history.

The Geth have never made any attempt to make any type of contact with the Galaxy of any sort, and have continually (and lethally) ended all attempts from us to establish any raport to build trust and security, or even communication. Geth have always killed all ambassadors and diplomatic missions. Geth who claim to be uninvolved never made any attempt to stop other Geth when they chose to go out on a genocidal war of conquest, nor even made the most elementary, basic, attempts to communicate with the Organic races even to let them know of any such division in the first place. Even the 'good' Geth stood by, watched Heretics kill Organics, and did nothing to alleviate any concern of the Organic races.


To be perfectly frank? The True Geth aren't equal actors. Until they build up a substantial amount of proof of trustworthiness, every other actor has a valid right to be worried about them and to build defenses against them.

My point is that performing experiments like this is only something you do as a last resort, not a peacetime experiment to stop someone who may not even be an enemy.

You realize that the war against the Geth still continues up until the point Shepard viruses the Heretics, including sporadic attempts to wipe out entire colonies that would succede if Shepard weren't there?

There isn't peace. Only a slowdown in the fighting.

Really Project Overlord would likely go over about as well as the Alerei experiments on Geth when they find out about it.  Whereas before they only had a history with Quarians, now they'll have a history with Cerberus (or humanity as a whole, if they don't recognize Cerberus' fringe status).  The whole thing will antagonize them, and no one who argues for the project seems to care.  Imagine if some other species was trying to ASSUME DIRECT CONTROL of humanity, everyone would recognize that these people are evil and should not be trusted.  But because it's the Geth, it's okay?  As long as it's not my species/faction/side in the war, it's okay?  Is that it?

Crafting a defense that ends up causing the very thing it is trying to prevent is the definition of idiocy.  The rhetoric behind such a defense becomes self-fulfilling prophecy, as the Geth attack because of Overlord, then the creators can argue that it was necessary because the Geth are attacking. 

The Geth wish to be left alone, and do not directly interfere with anyone who does not affect them.  This includes the Heretics.  They believe in self-determination, and as such, warning the galaxy against the Heretics would interfere in that belief.  They seem to have a policy of non-interference, as they do not involve themselves with other races and do not venture beyond the Perseus Veil.  Because they view any intruders as interference with them, they are killed, but they still never leave the veil.  I don't see how an isolationist state is a galactic threat exactly.  They keep to themselves, shroud themselves in mystery, and are thus the enemy?  Because, my God, they could be planning anything in there!  Who knows when they'll attack!  Despite the historical lack of evidence that the Geth do anything other than defend their borders, they're viewed as a threat to the galaxy.  That's what I don't understand.

And yes, Cerberus doesn't literally sacrifice people, but they might as well, given their track record.  Whatever happened to the Golden Rule?  People seem to conveniently forget it when it gets in their way.  Whatever.

[Dean_the_Young]

wizardryforever wrote...

Really Project Overlord would likely go over about as well as the Alerei experiments on Geth when they find out about it.  Whereas before they only had a history with Quarians, now they'll have a history with Cerberus (or humanity as a whole, if they don't recognize Cerberus' fringe status). 

If they aren't capable of recognizing Cerberus's fringe status, that's an even greater indicator that the Geth are simaltaneously too powerful yet too incapable to be trusted as rational actors.

The whole thing will antagonize them, and no one who argues for the project seems to care.  Imagine if some other species was trying to ASSUME DIRECT CONTROL of humanity, everyone would recognize that these people are evil and should not be trusted.  But because it's the Geth, it's okay?  As long as it's not my species/faction/side in the war, it's okay?  Is that it?

If Humanity had habit of virtually all it's exposures to others being attempts at genocide, provoked or unprovoked, it would certainly be understandable.

But Humanity's only involvement in its history with other races hasn't been to wipe out all emissionaries and more. Humanity has made significant compromises in it's privilages, and even sovereignity and freedoms, to fit withing the galactic power structure. Humanity has demonstrated itself capable of maintaining relations with other species, and while like all others it seeks to advance it's own interests, it has not done so in a genocidal manner.

Crafting a defense that ends up causing the very thing it is trying to prevent is the definition of idiocy.  The rhetoric behind such a defense becomes self-fulfilling prophecy, as the Geth attack because of Overlord, then the creators can argue that it was necessary because the Geth are attacking. 

If it's self-fulfilling, it's was prophesized and set into motion on the Geth's part.

If the Geth can't accept the fact that their actions, and those of their brothers who they freely allowed and tolerated until it became a personal threat to themselves, have given others the impetus to need a defense against Geth, then their violent objection to it will be evidence of their inability to be measured actors. The responsibility has long since fallen on them to prove they are reasonable, not for others to assume and hope that they are and always will be forever, even as they get more powerful.


There are tests in this world in which failure does prove the intent of the test. This is not uncommon, or illogical.

The Geth wish to be left alone, and do not directly interfere with anyone who does not affect them.This includes the Heretics. They believe in self-determination, and as such, warning the galaxy against the Heretics would interfere in that belief.  They seem to have a policy of non-interference, as they do not involve themselves with other races and do not venture beyond the Perseus Veil.  Because they view any intruders as interference with them, they are killed, but they still never leave the veil.  I don't see how an isolationist state is a galactic threat exactly.  They keep to themselves, shroud themselves in mystery, and are thus the enemy?  Because, my God, they could be planning anything in there!  Who knows when they'll attack!  Despite the historical lack of evidence that the Geth do anything other than defend their borders, they're viewed as a threat to the galaxy.  That's what I don't understand.

Quite frankly, that line of political theory is infantile, and grossly forgetting the first thirty minutes of Mass Effect 1. Current history always trumps distant history in relevance, and can not simply be ignorred when inconvenient.

If the Geth do not have a history of maintaining non-interference whenparts of them change their minds with an inclination towards (more) genocide, and feel no reason or responsibility to warn other species of the danger whenever a sub-section of the Geth whole comes to such a conclusion, and take no steps to even so much as mark an open differentiation between themselves and whichever segments certainly are not practing non-interference, they have no right or basis to expect or demand that the rest of the galaxy not prepare incase they or any sub-segments of the Geth mind decide to change current policy down the road.

A family does not get to maul someone nearly to death, hide in a house shooting at anyone who wants to so much as talk, see one of their own leave with some of their weapon and partake in a massacre, and then retain the right to insist that everyone trust them and refuse to take up arms that could be used against them.

And yes, Cerberus doesn't literally sacrifice people, but they might as well, given their track record.  Whatever happened to the Golden Rule?  People seem to conveniently forget it when it gets in their way.  Whatever.

Jesus got crucified. Which, while noble enough for him perhaps, is not something the rest of us would like to occur to others, or ourselves, especially after being attacked once already.

Christians can cling to the Golden Rule. I am not obliged to their beliefs.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 21 janvier 2011 - 01:49 .

[wizardryforever]

Tell me this then, Dean: Do you judge all of humanity based on what Cerberus has done/could do?  Because that is the reasoning behind judging the Geth based off of what the Heretics have done in the past.  Both the Heretics and Cerberus are fringe groups that claim they are doing what is best for their kind, regardless of what the rest of their kind believe.    I don't think it is very fair to say that the entire isolationist nation is a threat because of some radicals that went off on a rampage.  This is akin to judging all Muslims by the Taliban or Al-Qaeda, or all Christians by the Inquisition.  It's overgeneralizing, even in the case of the Geth, who share consensus.  They are different groups with different objectives who just happen to be the same race.

Furthermore, claiming that the Geth are at all responsible for the Heretics' actions is preposterous.  Modern day nations can and sometimes do maintain near absolute isolation, deliberately cutting themselves off from the outside world.  There's something called soveriegnty, and any nation with de facto rulership of an area can keep people out as they choose.  It's their territory.  Killing them may be a bit extreme, but consider the popular opinion of the Geth in council space even before Eden Prime.  Organics consider the Geth to be a major threat, and the Geth know this.  It is logical for them to assume that the intruders are there to spy on them or sabotage them.  In any case, condemning them for trying to be left alone by everyone else just doesn't make sense to me.  If it was an individual, then yes, we would have a problem.  But this is a nation, which plays by different rules.

[Dean_the_Young]

wizardryforever wrote...

Tell me this then, Dean: Do you judge all of humanity based on what Cerberus has done/could do?

No, I do not.

  Because that is the reasoning behind judging the Geth based off of what the Heretics have done in the past. 

No, it is not.

Both the Heretics and Cerberus are fringe groups that claim they are doing what is best for their kind, regardless of what the rest of their kind believe.  

Unlike the Geth and the Heretics, Cerberus is publicly identified and labeled as a fring group, actively combatted to the best of the Alliance's abilitiy, and has done nowhere near as much damage with the whole of the Alliance simply standing by and watching without comment.

The motivation of the rougue group is irrelevant: their scope of threat, and the reaction of the remainder of the whole, is relevant.

I don't think it is very fair to say that the entire isolationist nation is a threat because of some radicals that went off on a rampage.  This is akin to judging all Muslims by the Taliban or Al-Qaeda, or all Christians by the Inquisition.  It's overgeneralizing, even in the case of the Geth, who share consensus.  They are different groups with different objectives who just happen to be the same race.

The Heretics aren't radicals. That's the thing that remains gravely concerning: there was no error in their logic, no 'crazy' gene. The Heretics are a significant segment of completly normal, logical, uncorrupted Geth who's natural decision making process simply offered an accurate but differing conclusion. They went to a different direction, but for entirely normal Geth reasons. What they did for natural Geth logic, other Geth can in the future can come to believe, again for natural Geth logic.

Without any evidence or history of a 'True' Geth willingness to stop, oppose, or help against such threats, the rest of the galaxy has a legitimate right to consider and pursue defenses against any Geth faction that would fight them. That any such anti-Geth weaponry would be just as effective against 'true' Geth as 'rogue' Geth is the nature of weapons in general: guns kill regardless of target, as do bombs.

Furthermore, claiming that the Geth are at all responsible for the Heretics' actions is preposterous.

Since this position was never set forward, the rebuttal is meaningless.

The Geth aren't responsible for the Heretics actions. They are responsible for their lack of actions to the Heretic actions, and in large part because of their lack of action they have little basis to object to others studying malevolent Geth trying to kill them with the intent of finding  a way to stop malevolent Geth from trying to kill them, now and in the future.

Modern day nations can and sometimes do maintain near absolute isolation, deliberately cutting themselves off from the outside world.  There's something called soveriegnty, and any nation with de facto rulership of an area can keep people out as they choose.  It's their territory.

About the only nation in the world that has created it's own isolation, as opposed to having been isolated by others, is North Korea, who both remains in contact with the world and has launched regular provocations and even acts of war against it's southern neighbor. Besides being morally, ethically, and even practically abhorrent towards it's own people internally, it regularly reminds itself as a dangerous actor to the outside.

Definitely not the example you wish to refer to.

  Killing them may be a bit extreme, but consider the popular opinion of the Geth in council space even before Eden Prime.  Organics consider the Geth to be a major threat, and the Geth know this.  It is logical for them to assume that the intruders are there to spy on them or sabotage them.  In any case, condemning them for trying to be left alone by everyone else just doesn't make sense to me.  If it was an individual, then yes, we would have a problem.  But this is a nation, which plays by different rules.

Congratulations to them for their own self-fulfilling prophesy which has just proven that they can't be trusted as conventional actors.

Diplomatic missions broadcasting open intents for peace and negotiation and establishing the diplomatic relations that would allow mitigation of organic concerns of the Geth are not critical and major espionage/sabatoge threats. Killing them certainly does everything to support and confirm prior concerns that the Geth are dangerous and violent towards organics, and never sending their own telecommunication emmissionaries even after they did 'mature' demonstrates a lack of willingness to correct the misconception on their end as well, even when their own bretheren are out and proving the organic belief.




If the Geth stay in their own boundaries in the future, then an anti-Geth weapon will never have need to be used. If the Geth had stayed in their own boundaries in the past and present, then an anti-Geth weapon would never had been needed.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 21 janvier 2011 - 12:36 .

[Gabey5]

Zeke01231 wrote...

Cerberus needs to stick to intel because their scientist obviously suck.

indeed... they are utterly incompetent 

[Spartas Husky]

Gabey5 wrote...

Zeke01231 wrote...

Cerberus needs to stick to intel because their scientist obviously suck.

indeed... they are utterly incompetent 

I dont mean to be know it all... but from what I gather their only successful experiment was Shep... right?

Thats a bit ackward....

They should also switch to technologicla advancement... they did made a new nice SR-2... Maybe they got a nack for machines rather than for organics

[Skilled Seeker]

I've done both choices. Doesn't hurt to have a contingency plan if war with the Geth happens.

However I would have liked a 3rd option which involves slower but more ethical research.

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 21 janvier 2011 - 03:33 .

[Spartas Husky]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

I've done both choices. Doesn't hurt to have a contingency plan if war with the Geth happens.

However I would have liked a 3rd option which involves slower but more ethical research.

thats the paragon choice. It sets them back and nearly impossible tor eplace David. so they gota do it the slow way.

[Dean_the_Young]

The Paragon is slow because they have to find someone else with the same characteristics as David. That means running through a lot more autistic people until they find a match.



Not slower because they're more ethical about it than they would otherwise be. No matter what you do, they're going to keep the eventual subject as a well-kept lab rat.

[Baihu1983]

Does not really matter what you do seeing as you get no paragon/renegade points.



But i let him go.

[RiouHotaru]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The Paragon is slow because they have to find someone else with the same characteristics as David. That means running through a lot more autistic people until they find a match.

Not slower because they're more ethical about it than they would otherwise be. No matter what you do, they're going to keep the eventual subject as a well-kept lab rat.

Actually, TIM states they will likely NEVER find anyone like David.  So the project is set back because they have to find another way.  You know, one that doesn't involve strapping someone into tubes, pinning their eyes open and mind-raping them on a daily basis.

[Dean_the_Young]

Riou, are you honestly going to argue that facing a remote possibility would stop Cerberus from attempting to find others and testing them?



Moreover, do you really think the aspect you oppose are really going to be avoided, as opposed to incorporated as best as possible given that they were proven to work?

[Rody2k9]

I have done Project Overlord twice - first run through I went the Paragon route but I messed up with Tali right before (to where she lost her interest in Shepard)



So I went back and today I re did Overlord, and this time around I chose the renegade route (and did not mess up with Tali)



My view is that - the Geth have me too many headaches in ME 1 and 2 - and in 3 I want to kill em all and also by doing this I gain the trust of the Illusive Man, so when I do meet him I can kill him with pleasure as I hate the guy since day 1.



BTW: Both my ME1 and ME2 Shepards are RENEGADE (I never played the whole game with a 2nd character)

[Jeffman12]

I see the option of leaving David in the project as wrong for two reasons. Mind controlling a sapient species is wrong, it doesn't matter if they are born or fabricated. David's a person and torture is bad, etc.

Besides, I don't see why you need to put the geth under cerberus' control when you can unleash a virus that will make the heretics(Which are actually a minority of geth) dislike the reapers, which I see as reversing indoctrination, because come on, a logical machine wouldn't begin worshiping a race that ultimately wants to eat them.